Squeeze that film look!

[J.R. Hudson]

have a question about these stills...

Are these from the DVD? Or an actual HI-DEF source? because remember.... DVD's are not hi-defintion. When these stills come from a hi-def DVD source such as Blu-ray or HD-DVD... and all of that noise is apparent, then maybe the noise issue won't be an issue?

The best DVD quality I think I've ever seen is Sin City on DVD. When that movie is released on a hi-def disc... do you think it'll be as noisey as it is now?

THat's literally a question, not a statement. I'd love to know. __________________

Yes. These are the actual high resolution stills courtesy of Laser Pacific.

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No ! These have been 'beat up to hell and back and into 720p'

And that is the exact point. This is the final result on DVD. Blow it up and you'll see the grain even more.
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But the point being:

Noise ? Eh? Okaaaaaay.

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Look at the Cinealta. Barely any noise but it also looks the most videoy doesnt it ?

Obviously the 35mm looks great but the Viper looks amazing to me. And there is noise. But we notice it. You think the audience does? Please.

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I'm not sure of your question but the noise is coming from the source on these. The camera used (I mean the format technically; 16mm, 35mm, etc etc) I'll scope the Sin City tonight for detail.

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Nevertheless, if I submitted Collateral as my work I wonder who would be asking about the noise in it ? I'd be like huh? Who ****ing cares?

And I presume that is what our HVX'ers are starting to think. Why would they think this ? Because they have embraced this and have moved forward into creation. They know what there camera is giving them.

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D Man wants crsytal clarity for his work. Awesome. But let us start commenting on our users work and enough with the Rainman act.

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Nice example Briceman. Exactly the love I get from my DVX100! I love it

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[soarprod]

Maybe for the people who dont want noise should go with a digital still camera - no noise at all - but no life as well.

 

[Kholi]

Yes. These are the actual high resolution stills courtesy of Laser Pacific.

-

No ! These have been 'beat up to hell and back and into 720p'

And that is the exact point. This is the final result on DVD. Blow it up and you'll see the grain even more.
-

But the point being:

Noise ? Eh? Okaaaaaay.

-

Look at the Cinealta. Barely any noise but it also looks the most videoy doesnt it ?

Obviously the 35mm looks great but the Viper looks amazing to me. And there is noise. But we notice it. You think the audience does? Please.

-


I'm not sure of your question but the noise is coming from the source on these. The camera used (I mean the format technically; 16mm, 35mm, etc etc) I'll scope the Sin City tonight for detail.

-

Nevertheless, if I submitted Collateral as my work I wonder who would be asking about the noise in it ? I'd be like huh? Who poo pooing cares?

And I presume that is what our HVX'ers are starting to think. Why would they think this ? Because they have embraced this and have moved forward into creation. They know what there camera is giving them.

-

D Man wants crsytal clarity for his work. Awesome. But let us start commenting on our users work and enough with the Rainman act.

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Nice example Briceman. Exactly the love I get from my DVX100! I love it

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Brice's example of uncompressed DVX Is awesome.

Also, the final reuslt on DVD is ... well... just that. What happens when, again, hi-def DVDs are available and the HVX footage and be placed on there? When you compare a 35mm Hi-Def DVD to an HVX Hi-Def DVD on a Living room widescreen hD CRT... do you think that noise will be much more noticeable?

It's just a question, here again. We won't know til those mediums are available.

But please do check out Sin City DVD... the quality is something serious. The moment I popped it into my PC and fed DVI to HD-CRT... I immediately noticed how crisp and clear it was.

Not only that, it looked even better on Samsung DVD HDMI out to HD.

As trivial as the noise thing really is, it's there, and even amateur's like myself can see it when it's put on a television.

With that said.. .I'd still shoot with the HVX, JVC, or XL H1... the image from all three cams are more than acceptable.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

do you think that noise will be much more noticeable?

To whom ? Us? I notice grain on the Lord of the Rings screening.

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I'm assuming the Sin City was shot High Def, using virtual 3D Worlds with XSi, and then transferred to DVD via the digital source ? Definatley cleaner than clean but probably not the best example.


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My point exactly on the available cameras; choose your weapon and start making magic !

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry, this is probably the most frequently overlooked (and one of the most important) aspect of judging the final product. Thanks for bringing it up (again).

This statement should probably be inserted between every other (however passionate) post regarding noise.

Believe me, I understand the passion of the other side. But, it's like this: look at any review of the Dell 2405 monitor, and everyone who has reviewed it has said "great monitor, but man, don't try to watch a DVD on it, DVDs look terrible on it."

I mean, we know DVDs should look good, so we automatically accept that the DVD and the DVD player are "right," so if the footage looks bad it must be due to the monitor, right? I mean, it's obvious.

So why, when someone shows their HVX footage on that very same same monitor, do they blame THE CAMERA when the picture doesn't look so great on the monitor?

Why does the DVD player get a free ride, and the camera carries the blame?

Makes no sense to me.

The Dell is a great computer monitor for the price. I love mine, and I'll buy another one. But it is not a high-quality high-definition television set, nor was it ever meant to be. It happens to have component inputs, but that doesn't mean it's a professional high-def monitoring solution! It works reasonably well for focus but after owning one for several months, that's about all I'd ask it to do (focus). For anything video-related it's barely tolerable. A lot of us thought it was the ultimate monitor because it could be used with the HVX. Well, "could be" and "should be" ain't the same thing.

Now, on the other side I can hear the argument which goes "well, yeah, but that's what people will be watching our footage on, so we need tools that make footage look good on a cheap monitor." To which I go back to the DVD argument. DVDs look awful on the Dell 2405 -- should we storm the gates of Hollywood and demand that they re-master all their DVDs to make them look good on the Dell?

Of course not. We accept that if we want to have a pleasant experience watching DVDs, we should shell out for a decent/good monitor, and the better the monitor the more we'll enjoy the experience. And we know if we buy a cheap junk monitor, we can expect that the footage will look bad. And it does. Well, the same thing applies to HD. If you use a cheap monitor the footage will look mediocre or worse.

But if you use a quality monitor, the footage looks fantastic. As Evin showed by projecting the footage on a 10' screen, using a five-figure HD projector. And as Illya showed by having his footage transferred to 35mm film and projected at Plaster City, to rave reviews.

 

[Stevet]

There's the same amount of noise in the Canon and the JVC.

First of all, as Barry mentioned, viewing footage on an LCD seems to show noise more than other monitors, CRT, Plasma, DLP etc...

At first I thought it might of been the DELL 2405 was somehow enhancing the noise levels. This thought was "thrown out the window" when we bought two different brand LCD (1280x720) monitors. They showed the same amount of noise levels. This must be the nature of this technology, or the video processing
for these devices are similar. One of the reasons that DVDs do not look good on the DELL 2405 is due to the up scaling of the image.

One thing we have done is extensive testing between the HD100 and HVX200.
The HVX does appear to have a nice color palete and is capable of producing a filmic image. I've never tried the Canon H1, but have heard great things

The HD100 also has decent color, but probably falls short of the HVX. I believe this may be subjective. One thing the JVC does have is a decent amount of control for color variation. You really can dial a lot of different looks. As far as motion artifacts..... We've stared at hours of this stuff, and it looks good to me. If it''s there, it's not obvious. I don't really see it when I step through frame-by-frame .

I've pointed this out before, but I could really CARE LESS what brand of camera I own. Heck, if Matel made one that was capable of producing decent footage, I'd buy it!

I can say that there is no way that the HVX is on par for noise levels compared to the HD100. We did side-by-side comparisons trying to keep our settings as close as possible. The HVX exhibits noise before the HD100. The troublesome part of this is that it 's different. It appears as video noise with "busy bee" compression artifacts. The HD100 just looks like your typical noise. We even saw this noise blanketing a white garage set in the back while shooting some basketball footage in a park. This was mid sunny day in Arizona. We tried keeping the f-stop between f2-8 - f5.6 on both cameras. Of course since we were battling broad daylight some of the image rolled into the shadows. It was the lower levels that showed noise. The blacks were black. This has always been the case.

I know everyone has their own opinion on how much noise is exceptable.
I believe the HVX can produce awesome footage when lit properly.
I've decide to hold out for the next HVX version. I'm hoping they will address this issue and also improve its resolution. It's a shame a cemera offers 1080 rez, but lands far short of this with its signal processing. My understanding, this issue is not a function of the lens as mentioned in other posts.

Man, I wish Nikon would jump into this market. I've worked for Nikon for over 10 years and they have never shared any interest in the video department.
This is odd from a company that would probably excel in this technology from just the name itself.

I wish I could check out the H1. I've seen some decent samples, but I've also seen some that fall short too. The same goes for the JVC. All of these cameras are capable of producing great footage as well as poor. We just need to keep in mind what their strengths are.

We are in for a great ride over the next couple years!