sound for the GH2

T

Taotao7

Member
HI,

I have my GH2 on the way i wanted to get some sound equipment, mainly for short films. the question is, should i get an external recorder like the Tascam DR05 and, connect is to a 3.5mm-XLR convertor and then to a Mic.
OR
Would it be better to use a product like the Beachtexk DX-A2T and recordd the sound dorectly to the camera?

also, i learned that most Mic are Mono, i guess that this issue is being fixed in Post production. Does anyone knows if it is possible to do that with Premier CS5?

Thanks

Avi
 
Hi, Avi, and welcome to DVXUser!

First, you might want to try using the Search function as there are tons of threads already discussing audio for DSLR cameras. There's an entire forum here dedicated to the Panasonic GH cameras, and there's an Audio 101 sticky here that has some good information for DSLR folks as well. I will address one of your questions, though:

Taotao7 said:
also, i learned that most Mic are Mono, i guess that this issue is being fixed in Post production. Does anyone knows if it is possible to do that with Premier CS5?
Click to expand...

This isn't an "issue" at all, and it certainly doesn't have to be "fixed" in post. Dialog is almost always recorded in mono. It is also (almost) always mixed in mono (centered in a stereo or surround mix).

Recording dialog in stereo will create all sorts of issues that will have to be fixed in post, and won't be able to be fixed completely. There's a great thread about stereo vs. mono HERE.
 
Last edited:
Taotao7 said:
should i get an external recorder like the Tascam DR05 and, connect is to a 3.5mm-XLR convertor and then to a Mic.
OR
Would it be better to use a product like the Beachtexk DX-A2T and recordd the sound dorectly to the camera?
Click to expand...

Do you have any microphones at your disposal? The better option would likely depend on the mics you plan on using.
 
Taotao7 said:
Would it be better to use a product like the Beachtexk DX-A2T and recordd the sound dorectly to the camera?
Click to expand...

The BeachTek unit does not power or amplify mic signals, so you really need to add a good mixer to be able to use proper mics and record directly with your GH-2.

Using my Sound Devices MixPre and a BeachTek DXA-2s, I found that my GH-2 has a noise floor around -63 dB, which is about the same as my HMC-150 camera. So it's possible to get good sound recording directly with the GH-2 but you need to add a good mixer or switch to something like one of the better JuicedLink units that powers XLR mics and has good built-in mic pre-amps.
 
Alex H. said:
Hi, Avi, and welcome to DVXUser!

First, you might want to try using the Search function as there are tons of threads already discussing audio for DSLR cameras. There's an entire forum here dedicated to the Panasonic GH cameras, and there's an Audio 101 sticky here that has some good information for DSLR folks as well. I will address one of your questions, though:



This isn't an "issue" at all, and it certainly doesn't have to be "fixed" in post. Dialog is almost always recorded in mono. It is also (almost) always mixed in mono (centered in a stereo or surround mix).

Recording dialog in stereo will create all sorts of issues that will have to be fixed in post, and won't be able to be fixed completely. There's a great thread about stereo vs. mono HERE.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the replay and the links i'll read them and will try to learn more about the subject.
 
TheDingo said:
The BeachTek unit does not power or amplify mic signals, so you really need to add a good mixer to be able to use proper mics and record directly with your GH-2.

Using my Sound Devices MixPre and a BeachTek DXA-2s, I found that my GH-2 has a noise floor around -63 dB, which is about the same as my HMC-150 camera. So it's possible to get good sound recording directly with the GH-2 but you need to add a good mixer or switch to something like one of the better JuicedLink units that powers XLR mics and has good built-in mic pre-amps.
Click to expand...

it sounds like it will cost much more than the Tascam option... have you ever tried working with an external recorder.

Also, i saw in your signture that you own the Lumix 45-200, and i wanted to ask you if you are using it for video as well and if you'll recommend it?
 
Taotao7 said:
it sounds like it will cost much more than the Tascam option.
Click to expand...

Yes, definitely, but the Sound Devices MixPre is an amazing mixer, providing world class mic pre-amps, a powerful head-phone amp for your boom-op ( you can hear everything, so any unwanted noise becomes so obvious ), a great 2-stage limiter ( makes it very very hard to clip your audio ), a 1 kHz test tone to set-up proper audio recording levels, and it will do all of this for a full day on 2 AA batteries.

Taotao7 said:
have you ever tried working with an external recorder.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have owned several different models, and currently own a Zoom H-1 and an Olympus LS-10. External recorders are great provided you know their limitations. Virtually all of them have noisy mic pre-amps, until you get to the $1,000 price range. Many of them have high noise-floors, some do a poor job of powering XLR condenser mics, and many are battery hogs.

I tend to use the built-in mics with external recorders ( and place them as close a possible to the sound source ), or I will plug-in a good LAV mic and clip the recorder to the person's belt or hide it in their pocket.

The other option I mentioned which is quite good if you are on a budget is the JuicedLink adapter which will power external XLR mics and has good pre-amps built-in.

juicedLink CX231 Audio Mixer and Preamplifier : $300

Taotao7 said:
Also, i saw in your signture that you own the Lumix 45-200, and i wanted to ask you if you are using it for video as well and if you'll recommend it?
Click to expand...

Yes, I use it for video, but it's not a parfocal lens, so if you zoom while you are filming you will lose focus. Only the Lumix 14-140mm lens is parfocal, all the rest should be treated like a variable prime lens. ( no zooming while shooting )

The Lumix zooms are bad for low-light, but if you've got enough light they are quite sharp, and the OIS is pretty good. ( makes hand-held shots possible )
 
TheDingo said:
Yes, definitely, but the Sound Devices MixPre is an amazing mixer, providing world class mic pre-amps, a powerful head-phone amp for your boom-op ( you can hear everything, so any unwanted noise becomes so obvious ), a great 2-stage limiter ( makes it very very hard to clip your audio ), a 1 kHz test tone to set-up proper audio recording levels, and it will do all of this for a full day on 2 AA batteries.



Yes, I have owned several different models, and currently own a Zoom H-1 and an Olympus LS-10. External recorders are great provided you know their limitations. Virtually all of them have noisy mic pre-amps, until you get to the $1,000 price range. Many of them have high noise-floors, some do a poor job of powering XLR condenser mics, and many are battery hogs.

I tend to use the built-in mics with external recorders ( and place them as close a possible to the sound source ), or I will plug-in a good LAV mic and clip the recorder to the person's belt or hide it in their pocket.

The other option I mentioned which is quite good if you are on a budget is the JuicedLink adapter which will power external XLR mics and has good pre-amps built-in.

juicedLink CX231 Audio Mixer and Preamplifier : $300



Yes, I use it for video, but it's not a parfocal lens, so if you zoom while you are filming you will lose focus. Only the Lumix 14-140mm lens is parfocal, all the rest should be treated like a variable prime lens. ( no zooming while shooting )

The Lumix zooms are bad for low-light, but if you've got enough light they are quite sharp, and the OIS is pretty good. ( makes hand-held shots possible )
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thorough replay. so i understand that you recommend the Pre/Mix option. if i read correctly the only diffrence between the Juiced Link CX231 to the CX211 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563045-REG/juicedLink_CX211_CX211_Audio_Mixer_and.html) is the Phantom power option that, if understand right, is not needed with the AT897, am i right? (so i can save 110$ and squeeze it into my budget)

Regarding the Lens, thanks. actually besides the Kit 14-42 lens all my other lens are primes, so the ability to zoom while shooting is not an issue (also i actually really hate the look of zoom in films, it looks to much 70s'). i heard the 14-140 is a good lens but very expensive and i think that if i'll buy a lens in that budget it will be the Voightlander 25mm f/0.95.
Cheers!
 
The AT897 needs phantom power.

As for the MixPre, the new MixPre-D has a mic-level output designed specifically for DSLR mic inputs. I just got mine in last week and haven't had a chance to test it with my T2i, but as a mixer (compared to the original MixPre), this thing is a beast and very much worth the extra money over the MixPre.

While in-camera sound for a DSLR still is not as good of an option as a good external recorder, it can be greatly improved by using an external mixer (or something like the JuicedLink... or the BeachTek DXA-SLR, which does provide phantom). An even better solution would be the MixPre-D, plus an external recorder. You can feed both the camera and the recorder simultaneously from the MixPre-D. That gives you solid reference audio in-camera for aligning the audio in post from the recorder.
 
Taotao7 said:
if i read correctly the only diffrence between the Juiced Link CX231 to the CX211 is the Phantom power option that, if understand right, is not needed with the AT897, am i right? (so i can save 110$ and squeeze it into my budget)
Click to expand...

Yes, but you might be a little short sighted with your thinking, as most professional mics ( even the good and cheap ones from Rode or Audio-Technica ) need 48 volt phantom power, so don't limit your future mic choice by cheaping out on the phantom power.

Taotao7 said:
also i actually really hate the look of zoom in films, it looks to much 70s.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am totally with you on this one, unless you are shooting a "Five Fingers of Death" grade Z KungFu movie.

Five Fingers of Death 1973

Taotao7 said:
i heard the 14-140 is a good lens but very expensive and i think that if i'll buy a lens in that budget it will be the Voightlander 25mm f/0.95.
Cheers!
Click to expand...

I owned the 14-140mm for a couple of months, but sold it for two main reasons:

1- I never found the zoom to be very smooth, my lens always seemed a bit jerky.

2- It was big and clunky, but not fast. My Zeiss ZF 85mm f/1.4 is big and a little clunky on a GH-2 body, but it's f/1.4 so I don't mind at all.

...So I bought the 14-45mm ( sharper than the 14-42mm ) and the 45-200mm to replace the 14-140mm lens. ( I don't need the parfocal feature )
 
Thank you all for your replays. After reading a lot in the past couple of days about audio, i do understand that area could be very expansive, at least or even moe, than the visual side of the project. But, to be honest, i just spend most of my budget on buying the camera and other visual accessories. So, if i say that for a series film shooting i'll rent some more expansive audio equipment, which solution will you recommend to me, for small projects like commerials or advertisment, when the sound is not the main issue, and I just need something that will give me decent sound that i'll be able to use if needed. will it be an external recorder like the Tascam Dr05 (or something like it if you suggest something else) Or should i go for the Pre/Mix option likt the Juciedlink 211 (or again, something similar - sorry i just can't push my budget more than that :) )
Thanks
 
If money is tight then I would go for the Zoom H1, which is only $100. I bought one to see if I could use it with LAV mics, so I could outfit each actor with their own recorder and hidden LAV mic, and then sync everything in post. I was surprised at how good the H1 is, even the built-in mics aren't bad if you use a little EQ in post. I would also recommend buying the K-Tek KZH1 Topper Fuzzy Windscreen ( $30 ) and just leave it on all the time. ( assuming that you are going to use the built-in mics )

The only issue with the Zoom H1 is that the battery will drain if you leave it in the unit, so always take the battery out when not in use.

I owned a Tascam DR-07 which I absolutely hated because of how noisy the recordings were. I immediately sold it for half-price just to get rid of it. I haven't tried the DR-05. It's possible I just had a bad DR-07 unit.
 
TheDingo said:
If money is tight then I would go for the Zoom H1, which is only $100. I bought one to see if I could use it with LAV mics, so I could outfit each actor with their own recorder and hidden LAV mic, and then sync everything in post. I was surprised at how good the H1 is, even the built-in mics aren't bad if you use a little EQ in post. I would also recommend buying the K-Tek KZH1 Topper Fuzzy Windscreen ( $30 ) and just leave it on all the time. ( assuming that you are going to use the built-in mics )

The only issue with the Zoom H1 is that the battery will drain if you leave it in the unit, so always take the battery out when not in use.

I owned a Tascam DR-07 which I absolutely hated because of how noisy the recordings were. I immediately sold it for half-price just to get rid of it. I haven't tried the DR-05. It's possible I just had a bad DR-07 unit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick replay. another couple of questions if it is ok. will the PL to XLR will work well with the Zoom H1? can you recommand for an afordable LAV solution for interviews?

Thanks again!
 
Taotao7 said:
Will the PL to XLR will work well with the Zoom H1?
Click to expand...

...Not sure what you mean by "PL". None of the low cost recorders have good mic pre-amps, so if you want to use XLR mics then you need a proper XLR adapter ( like the BeachTek or JuicedLink units ) and you need a good mic pre-amp which are all fairly expensive. ( JuicedLink is the cheapest I would use )

The H1 recorder works well with:

- The built-in mics if you place the unit close and do a little bit of EQ on the audio in post
- Good LINE level audio input ( from a mixer )
- A good quality LAV mic


Taotao7 said:
Can you recommand for an afordable LAV solution for interviews?
Click to expand...

A good LAV mic is going to cost you $200+ just for the mic. I have heard good things about the Audio Technica low-end lavs, but I've never tried one.

If money is tight, then I would buy the Zoom H1 with the K-Tek wind-muff. ( use the built-in mics close to your subject ) Then add the best LAV mic you can afford. ( test before you buy if you can )

If you want to use a shotgun, then I would always try to add a mixer ( or Juiced Link unit ) to ensure good sound. A good mixer will also have loud headphone output, so the boom-op can properly monitor what they are recording.
 
So I have a Canon HV30 and was looking to upgrade to a GH1/2. I wanted to figure out audio stuff first before spending all my money on the camera / lens though :)
I have a Rode NTG2 and a Juicedlink CX231 right now. I shoot things from short films, music videos, to events. I was wondering what I should buy? I'm leaning on getting an Oktava MK012 mic, but I'm not sure what else to get (an external recorder of some sort because of the DSLR audio?) Let's say I have a budget of about $1000 on audio!
Thanks!
 
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