Sound Devices MixPre-D and Rode NTG-3 - No Audio?

B

brandonanthony1

Well-known member
I recently picked up the Sound Devices MixPre-D, to use with my Ursa Mini Pro. For awhile now, I've been using my Rode NTG-3 plugged directly into the UMP, which was getting okay results. I picked up the MixPre-D so that I can boost the overall sound quality going into the UMP.

Now the weird part - I plugged the NTG-3 into the MixPre-D, set 48v Phantom Mic, and made sure all settings were correct. I'm currently getting NOTHING from the monitor/headphone-out on the MixPre-D. At first I thought it was the MixPre-D, but when I connected my lav (Sony ECM-77B), it worked fine on 48v Phantom Power. This led me to believe that possibly the NTG-3 was the issue. Turns out that it works fine still connected directly to the Ursa Mini Pro or a separate recorder, such as the Tascam DR-100.

Honestly, at this point, I'm super confused. I have no clue as to why I wouldn't hear any kind of feedback or any noise whatsoever from the MixPre-D. Is there something I could be missing? Could the NTG-3 be so low that the MixPre preamps cannot boost the signal enough? That seems hard to believe, so I'm hoping that somebody here has some kind of solution or idea. Regardless, I reached out to Sound Devices about this issue, so hopefully I hear something back in the near future regarding this issue.

Thanks
Brandon
 
I've used NTG-3s with Sound Devices mixers (though not with the MixPre-D) without problem. Though it was like 10 years ago when the NTG-3 was just on the market. Nothing's coming to mind, but:

1) Try sliding the 48V/Mic/Line switch back and forth a few times.
Maybe there's a bit of corrosion and you're not getting great contact.

2) Check to see that Phantom is set to 48V, not 12V Phantom.
Perhaps the NTG-3 requires more than 12V (ie- it really needs 48V). On other early Sound Devices mixers (ie- 302 and 442), there's a 12V/48V switch. See if there's on one the MixPre-D...or if it's something you can set in firmware. Ya; looking at the MixPre-D manual, it seems it's something you can set via a button combination. Check out page for of the MixPre-D manual: https://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/mixpre-d_en.pdf

That's all that comes to mind now. Hopefully someone else here or someone at SD will get your sorted.
 
I assume Phantom Power on the on MP-D is set to 48V? There is a 12V option switch.
Is the MS mode set to standard?
Do both the channels on MP-D exhibit the same behavior?
Do the meters show activity?
 
Thanks Rick and Jim - Addressing your questions/comments below:

1. 48v is indeed selected. I made sure that 12v is NOT active. Both contacts upon inspection are clean.

2. MS is indeed set to standard.

3. Both channels exhibit the same behavior.

4. Meters show little-to-no activity. I have to turn the gain 100% up to even see ANYTHING on the meter.

I'm starting to think that, potentially, the MixPre is not outputting enough voltage via phantom power. My Sony ECM-77B works fine with the MixPre, but it only needs 1.5v to properly work (see here: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49332-REG/Sony_ECM77B_ECM_77B_Miniature_Omni_Directional.html ), from what I can tell. I'm beginning to think that the MixPre is, for some reason, not outputting the proper voltage - Is there a way I can use a Multimeter to measure phantom power on the input of the MixPre?

Again, thank you guys for your help. I was just on the phone with Sound Devices and they are a little stumped as well (but are still looking into it).
 
On the basis of your tests, that the two mics you have tested have very different voltage and current requirements (ECM-77B on phantom power = 12-48V and less than 2mA, vs NTG3 = 44-52V min 5mA), and on the assumption that you have ruled out potential cable problems (you haven't mentioned this), I would indeed check the Mixpre-D's phantom power supply, which is simple: just follow these instructions http://www.shure.com/americas/support/find-an-answer/how-to-test-phantom-power-voltage-and-current

Cheers,

Roland
 
Thanks Roland. Cables are indeed still working just fine. I've used upwards of 5 different ones. Thanks for the link - Will do and will report back. Thanks!
 
When you checked the ECM77, was the battery removed? Otherwise it will run off the power supply's AA batt. in lieu of Phantom Pwr . Have you tried using external power via the Hirose connector? I would check the Phantom Pwr voltage as well. Either way, you will likely have to send it to the mother ship, since the user errors have been eliminated and the NTG-3 works with other gear.
 
Hi Rick - Yes, the battery was fully removed when testing the ECM77. I have not tried using external power via Hirose - I may have to test that.
 
Just as an update - I got off the phone with customer service at Rode. They stated that the NTG3 is one of the most power hungry microphones they make - It needs a pretty much constant 48v, but not only that, it MUST have 7mA along each pin - Meaning it needs 12mA per XLR. Going to break out my electrician hat tonight and try and get this all figured out. I have a sneaking suspicion that the MixPre-D is the cause for all of this, and at this point, I'm hoping that when I measure it with the multimeter it runs low, just so that I can come to the correct conclusion.

Regardless, more than likely it's going to have to go in for repair.
 
FWIW, maybe nothing.

I have a 302 which by most accounts is pretty similar in design to a MixPre except for an extra channel on the 302, and in your case, digital output. I power a NTG3 easily with the 302. So maybe not quite apples to apples, but close.

At times, in the audio section, we have heard about some mics being incompatible with some recorders. Most were related to low output mics and weak preamps, but I remember a few other occasions as best as I can remember. Seems like there was a report of issues between a 4053b and a SD product. I haven't had that issue personally. Maybe someone here can think of some threads, or you might try a search.

Question: I didn't see if you mentioned testing the MixPre with a different mic which requires phantom, and not the Sony lav? That would give you some better diagnostics.

Grant
 
Thanks for the info Grant, I do appreciate it.

I did some testing with a multimeter and found the following results:

Ursa Mini Pro Phantom Power: 43.5v
Ursa Mini Pro Phantom Power mA: 7mA
MixPre-D Phantom Power: 45v
MixPre-D Phantom Power mA: 7mA

Given the results, it appears there is NOTHING in the MixPre-D that could be causing any of the issues of no-audio. At this point, I'm beginning to believe it could be the NTG-3. I tried to do some testing on the NTG-3 with the multimeter, but I wasn't quite certain what exactly I needed to do to test the microphone. I saw this tutorial but was unable to replicate the results...

Now, the most confusing thing I've seen is that the NTG-3 works fine with both my Focusrite 2i2, as well as directly going into the Ursa Mini Pro. Does anybody have ANY idea as to what could be causing the microphone to exclusively not work with the SD MixPre-D?

Next week I will be near a rental house that has NTG-3's, so I'm going to test theirs in the MixPre-D, and, at this point, pray it just works and I can assume the mic needs to be repaired in some way...

Fun times!
 
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I've used the MixPre-D and NTG3 combo a lot, & it has been good for me, does go through the AA pretty quick so I usually plugin the MixPre if it's an option. It only has to be set at like 3 gain for a good level on an interview.
 
I used to use the NTG-3/MixPre-D combo, and it was a great pairing. No issues. I will say, though, field mixer + AA batteries are usually a recipe for disappointing runtime. Field mixer + phantom power + AA batteries are even worse. Grab a lithium-ion NP-1 kit and NP-1 cup with Hirose and you should be able to run the MixPre-D well over a solid day on a single battery.
 
I'm guessing their is some resistance/corrosion on the mixpre-d that is attenuating the power coming from the P48. It might also be a battery issue. I've had P48 power supplies that won't run an NTG-3. That mic just doesn't work if you aren't giving it enough power.
 
KarlSutton said:
I've used the MixPre-D and NTG3 combo a lot, & it has been good for me, does go through the AA pretty quick so I usually plugin the MixPre if it's an option. It only has to be set at like 3 gain for a good level on an interview.
Click to expand...
"does go through the AA pretty quick" Is that the MixPre-D? The NTG-3 does not have a internal battery alternative. OTOH, the budget priced NTG-2 has an internal AA battery option.
 
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