Other: Sound Devices E5 recorder/monitor starts shipping today

Thank you for responding, Matt. And it's nice to see that various key employees are here on DVX, listening to our needs and requests.

For me, HDMI trigger would be a prerequisite to purchase, as a run & gun situation does not provide opportunity to dismount the camera from shoulder every time to stop and start recording via the LCD touch screen. I run into this situation when I run out of XQD card space (only 15 minutes on a 64GB card) and have to manually start/stop my Shogun recorder from that point forward. It is a major pain to do that, and I missed most of my shots due to the delay of that mechanical operation.
 
Basspig, perhaps only record 1080 internally and leave the 4K to the external recorder (internal just exists to serve as a back up)
 
The FS7 can't output a higher resolution than it's recording internally at. I was going to be my plan to record compatible MPEG422 internally and record 4K externally, but when I finally took delivery of the FS7, I found that this combination was not possible.
 
Seriously???? Well that is dumb. As having lightweight backup 1080 files would be handy for those using an external recorder as their main source.
 
The Odyssey7Q+ can record true 4K video in Apple ProRes from the HDMI output of the FS7. It can trigger recording from the HDMI feed. The Odyssey7Q+ is also the only on camera monitor/recorder than can display the full 17x9 (4096x2160) frame on its OLED display. The 17x9 frame is also delivered in a letterbox over the SDI and HDMI outputs of the Odyssey7Q+. The Odyssey7Q+ delivers with 3D-LUTs installed to properly display an S-Log2 or S-Log3 with Sgamma.cine enabled on the FS7 camera.
 
Mitch, it all sounds great, but how much is that RAW option again? Then we have the cost of the drives and whatever other options to make it operational. I reckon that's going to be a tad over 2 grand, total.

Is the display 10-bit color or 8-bit? One of the drawbacks to the Shogun's display is only 8-bit color where I get some banding when flat, almost evenly illuminated surfaces are in the frame.

Another option is to invest 2 grand into the FS7 extension back and use the RAW output there, which supposedly Shogun can record as DCI 4K. But this should not be necessary in the first place.
 
Basspig-

I know you've tested the FS7 audio section thoroughly and wondered what your thoughts are on using it to record audio for a feature film. I know the conventional wisdom is to run something like the Sound Devices recorder with a mixer, but with camera audio sections getting better and better, seems like this might be a viable option these days. I was pretty happy with the sound I recorded a couple of years ago with the AF100, an AT 4053 for indoors and a 4073 for outdoors, along with Sennheiser E2 wireless mics. My last two features have been silent films, so I haven't had to worry about audio (other than the score) for about 3 years.
 
mainstreetprod said:
Basspig-

I know you've tested the FS7 audio section thoroughly and wondered what your thoughts are on using it to record audio for a feature film. I know the conventional wisdom is to run something like the Sound Devices recorder with a mixer, but with camera audio sections getting better and better, seems like this might be a viable option these days. I was pretty happy with the sound I recorded a couple of years ago with the AF100, an AT 4053 for indoors and a 4073 for outdoors, along with Sennheiser E2 wireless mics. My last two features have been silent films, so I haven't had to worry about audio (other than the score) for about 3 years.
Click to expand...

The mic preamps on the FS7 are the quietest I have ever measured on a camera. When you exclude the bass rolloff, all other aspects of the audio system on this camera are surprisingly stellar. And you can bypass the rolloff by running line level into the camera's inputs, set to LINE mode. This bypasses the 7.4dB rolloff. The disadvantage is you must use a high grade mic preamp to drive the FS7's line inputs.

A workable alternative, because the preamps are so clean anyway, is to add a boost filter in post. In Premiere, I set it up on the track master with an EQ. The turnover should be 200Hz and the center frequency set to 20Hz (lowest Premiere's EQ will go) and gain set to +7.4dB. This will flatten out the resultant response.

The RMAA test results were comparable to some studio-grade gear I've tested, particularly the s/n ratio. I drive mine with a Rode NT4 for typical situations, although the Neumann U87A's work exceptionally well for concert work.

I tested the 'gain staging' of the mic preamps and found that the best dynamic range (minimal noise and maximum headroom) was found with the dials set to about 3.2 on the side controls. I have not tested the internal digital volume (0-99 scale), so I don't have those numbers.
For dialog, you might be using -60dB for the 'reference level' in the mic preamp menu. For live music, -50dB. Anything really loud like rock concerts and fireworks, -40dB. The front end will withstand a pretty loud SPL, but not extraordinary. But certainly fine for movie work.

Bear in mind that there is an optional hot shoe adapter that adds two more XLR inputs and records to two additional channels. I have not bought the adapter yet, so I have no idea if it's sound quality is comparable, but equipped with that, you would have FOUR audio channels to use with phantom powered mics! There are so many ways that could be put to use on a movie soundstage. (I like using wireless mics for the actors when wardrobe costume designs provide good concealment); done properly, they can produce good dialogue audio without a boom operator and you can mic up to four actors and have discreet dialog tracks that you can pan around in post as the actors move around.

If the response were not rolled off at the low end, the audio section of the FS7 could easily rival many studio recording systems. What I've recorded with it so far sounded excellent.
 
basspig said:
Mitch, it all sounds great, but how much is that RAW option again? Then we have the cost of the drives and whatever other options to make it operational. I reckon that's going to be a tad over 2 grand, total.

Is the display 10-bit color or 8-bit? One of the drawbacks to the Shogun's display is only 8-bit color where I get some banding when flat, almost evenly illuminated surfaces are in the frame.

Another option is to invest 2 grand into the FS7 extension back and use the RAW output there, which supposedly Shogun can record as DCI 4K. But this should not be necessary in the first place.
Click to expand...
The Odyssey RAW Bundle is only required if you are recording from the RAW output. I was describing recording from the HDMI output of the FS7. The Odyssey7Q+ can record directly from the HDMI output of the FS7. From this output it can capture that true 4K 4096x2160 I know you desire, and do so at 23.98p. It will trigger recording via the HDMI feed, and the monitor will show the full 4K 17x9 image, which others do not do. The Odyssey RAW Bundle is not required. The Sony XDCA Extension Unit is not required.

The OLED panel is 8-bit, as are all of the other on camera monitors available, but the recording is in full 10-bit Apple ProRes, and the feed from the camera is full 10-bit. It is rare to ever see banding on our monitor, but rest assured that the full 10-bit is what is recorded.

As for the SSDs, in the beginning of July we qualified the use of five different model SSDs from Samsung. These SSDs are excellent and quite economical. A Samsung 850 EVO 1TB can be found for about $375. That's a great $ per gig and $ per minute value.

So to repeat, with the Odyssey7Q+ you can record full 4K DCI in 10-bit Apple ProRes directly from the HDMI output without the need for the RAW Bundle or the XDCA back and you can do so to inexpensive Samsung SSDs. And you can do all of this today.
 
Thank you for the clarification on product specs, Mitch.

If I were to make a feature request though, I would want to see at least a full HD or DCI 2K screen and get the DPI over 300. I've come to appreciate high density displays for following focus on subjects that are in motion. With my reading glasses, and about 8" from the screen, I can see and focus the camera in realtime without stopping to turn on a focus aid, focus, and then turn it off again.
 
For dialog, you might be using -60dB for the 'reference level' in the mic preamp menu. For live music, -50dB. Anything really loud like rock concerts and fireworks, -40dB. The front end will withstand a pretty loud SPL, but not extraordinary. But certainly fine for movie work.

Bear in mind that there is an optional hot shoe adapter that adds two more XLR inputs and records to two additional channels. I have not bought the adapter yet, so I have no idea if it's sound quality is comparable, but equipped with that, you would have FOUR audio channels to use with phantom powered mics! There are so many ways that could be put to use on a movie soundstage. (I like using wireless mics for the actors when wardrobe costume designs provide good concealment); done properly, they can produce good dialogue audio without a boom operator and you can mic up to four actors and have discreet dialog tracks that you can pan around in post as the actors move around.

If the response were not rolled off at the low end, the audio section of the FS7 could easily rival many studio recording systems. What I've recorded with it so far sounded excellent.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the analysis. Extended bass response simply isn't a factor for recording film dialogue, quiet inputs are, so it sounds like plugging mics straight into the cam will work well this time around. I've noticed when using my XLR lav on ordinary interviews that the inputs have a ton of gain and little distortion, even without AGC . Typical setting is 3 or 4, around where you mentioned optimum gain is at. I may plug in a boom, get the shoe adapter and plug in 2 or 3 lavs, and use them to back up the boom audio.
 
Most people won't notice the difference with dialog, and with the FS7, it is pretty difficult to tell the audio apart with most female speakers and distant miked male speakers. But again, most studios monitor on Yamaha NS-10's which are notoriously lacking in output in the first three octaves of the bass region.

The FS7 is pretty mild in the world of camera audio. The top place for bad audio goes to the Sony HVR-V1U, which changes the timbre of human speech, as it's bass rolloff starts at 2122Hz. For the FS7, it's 200Hz and doesn't become significant until you're down around 70Hz. A close-miked male will sound thinner, but not that much thinner.
 
The PIX-E5H (HDMI-only version of the PIX-E5) is now shipping.

Home - Video Devices
PIX-E5H - Video Devices

Also, new firmware for the PIX-E5 v1.04 here:

PIX-E5 / PIX-E5H Firmware - Video Devices

Summary

- Support for PIX-E5H
- HDMI Record Start/Stop triggers from Sony and Canon cameras.
- 500GB Samsung 850 EVO mSata Drive added to Approved Media List.
- HDMI Input audio channels increased from two to four.
- HDMI Output audio channels increased from two to eight.
- Added ability to record from 3G-SDI Level B sources at 1080p50/59.94/60.
Changes
- QuickBoot™ is now deactivated 2 hours after power down to preserve battery life.
- plus more

More feature additions to come soon inc LUTs.

Paul
 
I'm impressed. This company listened and accommodated my request for more than 2 channel audio over HDMI and record trigger. And they did it FAST.

That eliminates any reason not to buy. I would imagine this will also carry to the higher end E7 model when it ships. Finally, I can record DCI 4K.
 
Paul, on the A7s, turning the focus ring automatically triggers the magnification of the image in the EVF and on the screen. Will the same thing happen with the PiX devices?
 
keith.uk said:
Paul, on the A7s, turning the focus ring automatically triggers the magnification of the image in the EVF and on the screen. Will the same thing happen with the PiX devices?
Click to expand...

No because the Sony does not output that magnification over HDMI out. You can zoom in 2x or 4x using the PIX-E's TapZoom function.

Paul
 
basspig said:
...

Bear in mind that there is an optional hot shoe adapter that adds two more XLR inputs and records to two additional channels. I have not bought the adapter yet, so I have no idea if it's sound quality is comparable, but equipped with that, you would have FOUR audio channels to use with phantom powered mics! There are so many ways that could be put to use on a movie soundstage. (I like using wireless mics for the actors when wardrobe costume designs provide good concealment); done properly, they can produce good dialogue audio without a boom operator and you can mic up to four actors and have discreet dialog tracks that you can pan around in post as the actors move around.

If the response were not rolled off at the low end, the audio section of the FS7 could easily rival many studio recording systems. What I've recorded with it so far sounded excellent.
Click to expand...

Hi Basspig,

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but as I recently bought and have used the XLR K1M (with the MI shoe as a 'dongle', rather than hard-wired into the 'foot' of the unit), I can confirm that in terms of S/N ratio, it's definitely not on par with the internal FS-7 circuitry. I haven't done any calibrated tests, but a simple side-by-side listening comparison comparing the channels with various mics shows a clearly elevated hiss using the XLR-K1M channels (3 &4).

Because of this, I have been using my 2x radio mics straight into the body, and only putting my camera-top 'atmos' mic into the K1M, it's a compromise I'm willing to live with, but it's disappointing to spend fairly significant cash on an audio-specific unit like this, only to have to compromise (yet again!!!).

My guess is that these units have been primarily designed/marketed at A7 users, to whom any sign of XLR with phantom, etc represents a big improvement, and so they've scrimped on the pre-amps. Of course it could be a limitation of the MI interface itself, but that would be even more peturbing!

Cheers,

jason
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top