Sound advice for paid work GH1

B

Blutarski

Active member
I have an opportunity to get some paid work next week with my GH1. I have a Rode NTG-3 XLR cable and boompole, that's it. I have $600 to spend for a recorder and or recorder and mixer. Is the H4N the best recorder to buy for this amount of money? Is there an upgrade as far as quality? The H4N goes for $300, can I get something for more money in the $400 to $600 range that will give me superior sound with the ease of use of the H4N?
It's a three man show and only one of us has any knowledge with sound and that was with an HVX with the XLR attached to the camera. Is a decent mixer and H4N possible for $600? Is a mixer even worth getting at this point, due to lack of knowledge? Any recommendations would be appreciated.
 
Blutarski said:
that will give me superior sound with the ease of use of the H4N?
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For superior sound, you will need some lav-mics for your "three man show". Or you should consider hiring a sound guy with his own gear. Nothing worse than bad audio on a paid job.

Cheers.
 
Rent some lav-mics and buy an H4N then? Is there a better field recorder I can get in the $400 to $600 range? The sound guy we had in mind is currently working on a project. It would have been a "four man show"
 
Yeah, sounds right... Get a quote fron the rental house. Many times they have sound packages. If Talent is moving around then you need wireless Lavs.

3 Lavs + 1 Boom > 1 Mixer > 1 Recorder (4 Tracks)

If you gonna buy H4n, then maybe workflow can be:
A - 1 Lav + 1 boom directly into H4n "Mic In" = Tracks 1 & 2
B - 2 Lavs Into Mixer and out of Mixer out into H4n "Line in" for Tracks 3 & 4

Hope that helps.

Cheers
 
I never use lavs on talent if it is for a 'film' because they sound weird, use a high end boom with a good operator. For corporate infomercial or reporter type stuff then yeah I guess you can use lavs but you need really good ones and those are mighty expensive so you are best off renting them or hiring someone who has them.

If you can afford it, I would get the tascam hd-p2 over the zoom h4n... I have both and stock, the tascam sounds a lot better and has sturdier inputs and outputs and records on a CF card vs SD.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405341-REG/Tascam_HD_P2_Portable_CF_Stereo.html

The zoom will work.... but controlling levels on it is a bit harder, it eats batteries like candy if using a phantom powered mic.... only advatage of the zoom is the neat little on board mics are great for capturing ambient sfx.
 
Blackout said:
I never use lavs on talent if it is for a 'film' because they sound weird, use a high end boom with a good operator.
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So how would you capture audio on a wide outdoors shot of two people having an intimate conversation that then needs to be intercut with a closeup?
 
I think when you said its three man show you meant 3 man crew?

How many people are you actually shooting who will be talking?
 
Blackout said:
I never use lavs on talent if it is for a 'film' because they sound weird, use a high end boom with a good operator.
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Every film is different, however most audio in film is from Lavs. Also, he will be able to record exterior shots more effectively. The point is that his crew is small and doesn't have much experience with Sound. So, the best thing to do is mic talent with lav's and use a boom.

If you have 2 people talking in a scene, you use a lav for each talent and a boom recording both. The 3rd Lav is a back up or if you have more than 2 in frame. It's also alot faster for production. And time is money.

Cheers.
 
Yes three man crew. We are doing an infomercial for their website, the first one. As far as I know this will be shot mostly, if not entirely, indoors. Interviews with store employees and the owner will take up the bulk of the shooting. I assume there will be four to five people in the infomercial, whether the audio is as a group or individual I don't know. I am helping out and lending the little audio equipment I have.
The purchase of a recorder is for my long term use as well, and my interest is in feature film production. We are doing this on short notice. If i had more time (and money) I would have planned this out. As it is my friend has an opportunity to make money and I want to come through for him.
 
I've done some paid workshop recording where the facilitator(s) are walking around talking to different participants. I put some shure wireless lavs on each of the facilitators and have them walk around with a wireless handheld mic to catch the speach of the participants.

I have all this piped into a Zoom h4n through a Behringer mixer. I've used Audacity on my laptop as well, but I just feel the Zoom is less risky. I don't trust the OS not to fart out on me.

Since I'm a crew of one, this setup works well. On occasion I've had a helper monitor the audio for me as I wander around with the camera.

Now, all this gear runs into the $thousands to buy, so I rent amost all of it (I own the mixer). My local pro audio shop (http://www.long-mcquade.com/ here in Victoria, BC) rents all of this to me for around $50 per day. It's the way to go for me until I get enough cash and steady work to justify the purchase price.

When doing my own "film" projects I also rent - that way I get what I need at the time.

So, for your budget of $600 I would rent. You can get way more for your money and use the cash from your gig to start building your kit. It's worked well for me. Plus you get to do a real life test of each of the gear pieces before laying down the cash.
 
stoneinapond said:
So how would you capture audio on a wide outdoors shot of two people having an intimate conversation that then needs to be intercut with a closeup?
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I have a 20 foot pole and in extreme situations can get a hold of a 40 foot boom "on a boom" cause my arm would fall off.

For extreme wide shots, audio can change perspective and be proper, and you would be amazed at the 'pull' of a really good boom.. again I praise the sanken cs-3e.. however, if the shot is so wide that you can't really make out the actors mouths in detail anyway, you can use the audio that you captured from the medium shots and close ups, just be sure to shoot it fully so you are covered.

We've never chosen the sound of wireless lavs over the boom because it just sounds weird, too unnatural... and really only works for reality shows where there are just too many people all over the place and too many cameras to boom.
 
this is probably too late, but don't spend your money on gear....spend it on hiring a freelance audio guy!!
never never never skimp on audio. if you have more than 1 person on your crew, the second person should be handling all your audio. then you can add more people for everything else you want. from experience, i'd say your priorities are mixed up. and you should be able to find freelance audio techs anywhere. i can get pro guys to freelance for as little as $300 in the San Francisco area! for a one-day shoot, $600 will easily get you an experienced person with pro gear.
 
Blackout said:
I have a 20 foot pole and in extreme situations can get a hold of a 40 foot boom "on a boom" cause my arm would fall off.

For extreme wide shots, audio can change perspective and be proper, and you would be amazed at the 'pull' of a really good boom.. again I praise the sanken cs-3e.. however, if the shot is so wide that you can't really make out the actors mouths in detail anyway, you can use the audio that you captured from the medium shots and close ups, just be sure to shoot it fully so you are covered.

We've never chosen the sound of wireless lavs over the boom because it just sounds weird, too unnatural... and really only works for reality shows where there are just too many people all over the place and too many cameras to boom.
Click to expand...

Just cg out the boom guy, he won't mind:)

But that's a good point, if it's so wide where you'd need more than a 20ft boom...you probably don't need to boom the shot, use sound from the mediums and close-ups.
 
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