Sony XDCAM EX
- Thread starter William_Robinette
- Start date
snowleopard
Well-known member
True Ecking, that is what I think Canon could hope to figure out.
I hadn't seen the photo, but didn't know this new Sony was fixed lens. It looks pretty darned good, but The price will have to be close to the Panny, and the Express Cards will have to really undercut the P2 cards. Panny is still going to say that this is an HDV camera, and theirs is DVCPROHD, with true overcranking.
I hadn't seen the photo, but didn't know this new Sony was fixed lens. It looks pretty darned good, but The price will have to be close to the Panny, and the Express Cards will have to really undercut the P2 cards. Panny is still going to say that this is an HDV camera, and theirs is DVCPROHD, with true overcranking.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
I'm guessing the express cards will undercut P2 for the simple reason that it is not a niche product. It is not only intended for cameras and therefore there are many different companies making it.
snowleopard
Well-known member
Good point that could really work in Sony's favor.
Any clue on proposed release date on this thing?
Any clue on proposed release date on this thing?
Zack Vohaska
Member
ecking said:
I would go with Canon in a heartbeat if I could capture HD-SDI to a portable capture device; however, this would not be compatible with the XL-H1; we'd need a revision like an H1s or H2 because the current Canon XL-H1 jackpack doesn't output audio in the stream, so... unless you plan on recording audio to a separate device or something, than no, this would not be viable.
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
CineAlta Silver, not CineAlta gold. Just like the XDCAM HD 1/2" model for which this camera is intended as a companion to.
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
Yes, a lot, on the XDCAM HD 1/2" shoulder mount cameras. It works so well I know of some very fussy graders that do work for the BBC who found that they could push it further in post than HDCAM. Also the 35Mbps VBR codec is allowed by both Discovery HD and another major channel that Sony will announce at NAB for unrestricted acquisition. That is to say that they are happy for you to shoot an entire programme for them with it. Discovery apparently absolutely love the PDW-350. And believe me, to pass the Discovery HD approval tests the codec was tortured going through not only very harsh grading tests, but also being tested to destruction through the entire broadcast chain with recompressions etc that it would have to go through. It passed with flying colours.
The fact that this new camera uses possibly the same 1/2" chips as its bigger brother may mean that they will accept footage from this camera in the same way. Something that they won't allow with the HVX200 due to the 1/3" chips. Speculation of course, but I would e surprised if they didn't accept this camera in the same way as the 350.
snowleopard
Well-known member
That (hopefully) diffuses that concern with VBR and compression, or most concerns that it won't match what Panasonic is doinh with the HVX and DVCPROHD.
Release date?
Release date?
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
I know it is going to cost more than that dang Sony Z1, because they are not going to cannibalize their own market. So my guess is, the price is going to be whatever the Z1 cost, and add 2000-3000 bucks.
Camera Expert
Well-known member
It’s most likely a 3 CMOS based camera
Scroll down until you see a graphic of the XDCAM EX with a 16 gig card next to it.
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=158
Panasonic could still compete if they release an HVX200 replacement with the AVC 100mbps codec.
Scroll down until you see a graphic of the XDCAM EX with a 16 gig card next to it.
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=158
Panasonic could still compete if they release an HVX200 replacement with the AVC 100mbps codec.
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
Tapeless is where Sony is headed, and the gap is closing. The last info I received was that it would be around 4k GBP, or at the current exchange rate around $8k. Not too bad considering what it is and does.
Don't read anything from that concept drawing. For example that concept drawing says that the lens is Canon. It isn't, in reality the lens is made by Fujinon. It also says XMCAM, when it is actually an XDCAM camera.
Its 3CCD. And I'll bet its the same CCDs from the current XDCAM HD cameras. I'll confirm or disprove this as soon as I can.
themagickite
Well-known member
so i got 2 conflicting answers about the DOF
i myself couldn't really see there being that huge a difference after looking at this
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
but there would be some difference of course, i just wonder how much, the camera i've been using lately is 3 x 1/6" sensors, such a pain trying to work with
simon, you said you couldn't really tell the difference between 1/2" sony xdcam and 2/3"? does that mean you could get 16mm type DOF out of this thing?
the lens on this looks amazing, i remember back in high school when i started studying media and photography and i always asked "why don't they make video cameras with lenses like photographic cameras?" seemed a no-brainer to me, well it looks like panasonic have managed to change the paradigm now that other brands are trying to out-do them in regard to real lenses on small cameras, awesome, this is what i've been waiting for!
i myself couldn't really see there being that huge a difference after looking at this
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
but there would be some difference of course, i just wonder how much, the camera i've been using lately is 3 x 1/6" sensors, such a pain trying to work with
simon, you said you couldn't really tell the difference between 1/2" sony xdcam and 2/3"? does that mean you could get 16mm type DOF out of this thing?
the lens on this looks amazing, i remember back in high school when i started studying media and photography and i always asked "why don't they make video cameras with lenses like photographic cameras?" seemed a no-brainer to me, well it looks like panasonic have managed to change the paradigm now that other brands are trying to out-do them in regard to real lenses on small cameras, awesome, this is what i've been waiting for!
Camera Expert said:
I would take most of the info in that article with a grain of salt since the writer is obviously pro-Sony and anti-Pannasonic. There's a lot of unsupported generalizations in there. But the fact remains that if this camera actually come out and it's priced comparable to a Z1 or HVX, it's going to seriously disrupt the HVX market, simply because:
1/3'' CCD vs 1/2'' (CMOS or CCD?)
Prorietary P2 card vs. widely available solid state media
Finally a true manual lense!
These main factors would probably cause a lot of HVX users to jump ship. This is of course assuming that the camera performs as expected and Pannasonic doesn't come out with a competing model. Heck, the chip size alone is enough of an argument in favor of the Sony.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
It looks like it's going to be one (1) 1/2" sensor. Probably Cmos (if I had to guess).
1 sensor? We'll see.
Looks like it does PAL and NTSC. That'd be cool.
Variable framerates 1-60. Cool
Expresscard. Cool.
MPEG-2 @ 4:2:0. Not too cool to me.
25Mbps... Meh. Wouldn't that be pretty highly compressed?
35Mbps... Variable bit rate??? hmm...
Looks like a couple of potential nice things, but it may have some *considerable* tradeoffs. (depending on who you are, and how you are looking at it).
Guess we will find out when it gets here, anyways.
I do wonder about whether you truly can just use any expresscard ssd, or not. They make mention of the SxS. Wouldn't be like Sony to have a non-proprietary format recording/storage device like that. Would be a smart move though.
1 sensor? We'll see.
Looks like it does PAL and NTSC. That'd be cool.
Variable framerates 1-60. Cool
Expresscard. Cool.
MPEG-2 @ 4:2:0. Not too cool to me.
25Mbps... Meh. Wouldn't that be pretty highly compressed?
35Mbps... Variable bit rate??? hmm...
Looks like a couple of potential nice things, but it may have some *considerable* tradeoffs. (depending on who you are, and how you are looking at it).
Guess we will find out when it gets here, anyways.
I do wonder about whether you truly can just use any expresscard ssd, or not. They make mention of the SxS. Wouldn't be like Sony to have a non-proprietary format recording/storage device like that. Would be a smart move though.
themagickite
Well-known member
i'd laugh if panasonic (not to be outdone) released a 2/3" cam in the same form factor
Don't count on it. And I wouldn't even get started talking about this camera until some footage shows up. Had high hopes for the V1U, don't even think about it now. The image was just... not my sorta image to say the least.
Wait for the footage. Unless you just love Sony footage then cool.
Wait for the footage. Unless you just love Sony footage then cool.
Simon Wyndham
Well-known member
No, not 16mm (you can't really do that with a 2/3" either). Depth of field control is much easier with 1/2" over 1/3" though. With these chips especially, possibly because Sony are using much more of the CCD surface area (ie a bigger capture area on the chip) than is usual.
They did at one time. Sitting next to me is an old Sony Hi-8 camcorder about the same size as a PD-150, with a fully manual lens, focus and zoom marking, and macro functionality. It even has a B&W CRT viewfinder. The reason for servo mounts is cost and that the companies think that people who use those sorts of cameras don't need that sort of control. They are of course wrong.
With good reason, as you would know if you'd ever been a magazine writer and written about Panasonic products! Its like writing a review at knifepoint.
No, its three. http://www.tapelessrev.com.
Tell that to the people at Discovery HD and National Geographic, the most fussy broadcasters on the planet. They love it and accept it unrestricted.
Try using one and reading the comments of others who have actually used it (including Discovery and National Geographic) before making such a comment. Its been on the XDCAM HD disc based cameras for the last two years.
The Sony looks really nice. There has not been a lot of discussion on the lens. Coming from Fujinon a fully manul is something that I like, given that picture quality stands up to the reputation that the producer has.
One important thing; for run and gun e.g. news gathering a lens like this can be of great help. With I full size ring for iris, just like on the bigger lens so that you can work all this with your left hand (hate the smaller iris dials). And I am also looking at if you can work the zoom to with your left hand when having the camera on tripod, just as on a bigger camera. As I understand the importance for using the zoom ring manually for some, it has no value for me. What I need is a really fast zoom for, zooming in, focusing and pulling out again. My DVX has always been slow on this point.
And you cannot overlook the costs of storage here. The difference is huge.
I would very much like to hear from someone here who knows well, without bias, the full story on p2 vs. this and the statements on Sony's solution being the future.
One important thing; for run and gun e.g. news gathering a lens like this can be of great help. With I full size ring for iris, just like on the bigger lens so that you can work all this with your left hand (hate the smaller iris dials). And I am also looking at if you can work the zoom to with your left hand when having the camera on tripod, just as on a bigger camera. As I understand the importance for using the zoom ring manually for some, it has no value for me. What I need is a really fast zoom for, zooming in, focusing and pulling out again. My DVX has always been slow on this point.
And you cannot overlook the costs of storage here. The difference is huge.
I would very much like to hear from someone here who knows well, without bias, the full story on p2 vs. this and the statements on Sony's solution being the future.
1/2" chips should result in less noise, better exposure latitude and better lowlight capability than 1/3" ccds (with all else being equal). Bigger chips on prosumer cameras is definately something to look forward to.
Simon, based on what we know, how do you think this will perform in comparison with your own cam? (F330, right?)
And do you have experience with the HVX? I'm wondering how your footage holds up to cc'ing compared with the HVX's 4:2:2 (or something like) colour space?
Simon, based on what we know, how do you think this will perform in comparison with your own cam? (F330, right?)
And do you have experience with the HVX? I'm wondering how your footage holds up to cc'ing compared with the HVX's 4:2:2 (or something like) colour space?