Sony VENICE - shipping

J

jcs

Veteran
https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-venice-gets-dual-iso-starts-shipping/
Looks like Full Frame is the new thing for cinema cameras. Kudos to Sony for calling it Full Frame (and not Large Format) and not making bogus claims regarding sensor-size myths!
6.5K is more than enough to create True 4K after deBayer (5.7K is minimum needed).
If they give it F65-like color-science, will be an amazing camera. Waiting for Canon to join the fun with a C700 FF upgrade, pushing DPAF-level AF up to the top cameras. Sony has decent AF with A7R II/III etc., seems like they could do something even better for higher end cameras. This same tech can be used for focus assist with a focus puller- FF shallow DOF focusing for 4K is tricky.
 
agree with you but sony didn't communicate about AF on Venice... i will be very surprise to see improvement on this kind of Tools (like simple wire less control of AF or back AF with smartphone for exemple), i think today it is very important to work on this aspect to fight against Canon dual pixel or RED Wireless Tools on smartphone.
 
Doubt many people will be shooting Venice with E mount lenses, but am curious as to how AF performance would be with them!
 
It would benefit Sony greatly if they can provide VENICE footage that looks like Lucy, Oblivion, Wonderwheel, (F65) etc. I was going to post a bunch of VENICE YouTube clips here, however while there are some videos where a few shots look pretty good, it's not up to F65 or Alexa quality. [Lucy | Oblivion | Wonderwheel] >= Alexa.

Here's one 4K example (color, focus issues, too clean, but still shows potential!)

Super saturated, mixed lighting is the ultimate test of a camera, especially providing great skintones in those lighting conditions. The Alexa 65 footage (shot on Canon(!) and Cooke lenses) for Altered Carbon looks amazing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2261227/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec . The Alexa 65 has a 54mm sensor width, but when using the 1.5 crop mode = 54/1.5 = 36mm = Full Frame. And at 4.3K that's pretty much the same as the Alexa LF: 36.7mm and 4.4K. So the 36mm VENICE is right there, except it provides 6K! While ARRI still has the edge on color and highlights (from VENICE examples posted so far), the VENICE can provide True 4K: 6K*.67 = 4K, whereas the Alexa 65 in 1.5 crop and the Alexa LF can only provide [4.3 | 4.4]*.67 = [2.88K | 2.9K]. While color is more important than resolution and highlights, ARRI's naming of the LF "Large Format" is rather silly, as is claiming that the larger sensor provides a "more intimate" "three dimensional" look: part of the Full Frame myth I thought we finally put to bed after nearly endless debate. It shoots Full Frame lenses: it's a Full Frame camera, call it the Alexa FF! That's what I'm calling it moving forward :) To ARRI's credit, they are conservative on DR, whereas many others exaggerate DR.

Quick feedback on VENICE footage so far is skintones and highlights need work, and while ultraclean is certainly a look, a little organic grain in post will help a lot. I remember the first few episodes of Marco Polo shot in the F55 didn't look that great, and later episodes looked better- not clear if Sony did something or folks learned how to make it look better.
 
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Sadly, that's a poorly exposed/graded demo.
By now we've all scene "The Dig" shot by Claudio Miranda which looks bang on:

I'd love to see this camera take off, which would encourage Sony to release a 'mini' Venice down the road.
 
bill totolo said:
I respectfully disagree. I thought it looked awful, just bad skin tones, bad lighting, and bad compositions throughout.
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That's cool, it's art, so everyone will have a different perspective. Are you a fan of the Blade Runner look? That's what they are going for and it works for me (I loved the look of both Blade Runner films). I've watched 5 episodes (on a still excellent looking 10-year old (10-bit) Sony XBR5 HDTV), and the skin tones hold up very well under very complex, mixed, and subtle lighting. Double checked on a Mac using a calibrated Dell UP3216Q 4K monitor and pixel-peeped at bit: I think they did an amazing job with light & color! It's got an 8.5 IMDB rating, which is pretty high- I think the look has a lot to do with the rating, really sets the mood/emotion of what's going on. Even more so, because I don't think the story/writing is up to the same level!

I wanted to like The Dig, and some shots do indeed work. However some of the shots really have the unwanted video look, and colors are a bit desaturated. The litmus test for me for great color science is to be able to push the crap out of saturation and still get a usable, pleasing look. You can always dial it back for mood/style. The challenge I had with every Sony camera I have owned, was that I could never really push saturation, especially for skin tones, in a wide range of conditions and still have it look good without a lot of post work. I am encouraged by the jump in color quality from the FS700, to A7S, to A7S II, so it's clear Sony can do better color when they want to. Lucy and Oblivion show Sony can compete with ARRI at the highest level of filmmaking. It's not clear if they had the world's best colorists painstakingly fixing every shot, or does the F65 get most of the credit for the amazing color. There's tons of great looking Alexa material, much more than Sony material. ARRI/Alexa have been the A-camera in recent history for all Academy award films and almost all high-end productions. So I don't think it's bias that ARRI still has the best look and color science. Meaning that many people can get great results with it, and when cost is no option, ARRI/Alexa get used. Sony/Red/Canon/Panasonic can all make great footage, they're just not there yet when it comes to look and color science.

Sony has by far the most advanced hardware/technology, so they can compete very well with the VENICE as they continue to improve their color science and look. At the same time it's great to see a much smaller company like ARRI compete and dominate at the high end, pushing the larger companies to improve, which trickles down into the consumer space. Looking forward to a VENICE, Alexa FF, Red Monstro, Canon C700 (FF upgrade) comparo soon! :)
 
So anyone here going to order one?

I sort of see Venice as rental house cam, definitely not Swiss-army-knife-owner-operator friendly in my opinion.
 
starcentral said:
So anyone here going to order one?
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I did and just received it but I am already considering returning it and I haven't shot a frame with it. I was under the impression that the Dual ISO was already active in the shipping cameras and 500ISO is not going to cut it for me except for exteriors. That and some of the other workarounds with audio, no waveform for exposure, etc. are making me lean towards to just returning it and sticking with my FS7...as far as I am concerned there really isn't another camera that can touch it at the same price point even with the FS7's boatload of shortcomings.
 
Congrats on the Venice! but sorry to hear you were misinformed :/ newsshooter inaccurately reported that it was shipping with dual ISO but never corrected their article, or perhaps still don't know it's inaccurate.

It's hard to get a camera that only has updates promised for the future, perhaps 6-12 months from now it will be more ready.

Today in fact I wrote a short summary on what I think the Venice should bring to the table both now and in the future (aside from obvious HFR, WFM, ENG mode, etc.)

http://www.hingsberg.com/2018/03/sony-venice-continues-to-thunder-and-roar/
 
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