Sony RX10 II or Canon XC10

J

jjneff

Active member
Hello,

Now I know this is a Sony thread but I love Canon colors and the 422 color space. I shoot stock video for a living and need a 4k run and gun machine. The slow mo is a great feature but image quality is more important to me. I will also use the camera for YP video shoots as I do several a month for spare change. My Panasonic HMC150 is long in the tooth and I want something smaller and with 4k for stock. I am not a gear snob as I shoot with Sony action cam, Canon 5DII Panny, Olympus EM1. Just a little note if the EM1 had 4k I would be happy, the image stabilization for video is amazing!! So you can get an idea of what and how I shoot my gallery www.istockphoto.com/jjneff Love your advice! Thanks
 
In my opinion the XC10 is overpriced but if you need 4K at this pricepoint you either choose the rx10 II or the XC10. For the price of the xc10 i would definitively get the Canon C100, but again, no 4k here.
 
If you need 422 Canon is the only choice in that form factor at that price range. You can tell by its model number it a handycam with 422 +4K nothing more.

In most other matters RX10II much better, storage card, lens, AF, power zoom, remote operation, form factor, post processing of files in PC,




I am a user of the 1DC and FZ1000 and many other camera (I am a gear nob). I usually use the FZ1000/LX100 for less demanding shots now, and the RX10II/RX100iV was designed to marginally excel the FZ1000/LX100 on every item of the specification(except price). Sold my GH4 and A7S already and waiting for USRA Mini.
 
Thanks, No easy choice here, I already have a camera with inter changeable lenses I own a BMPCC as well, since I am looking to replace my camcorder and need something I can record with out a time limit I am leaning towards the Canon XC10. It frustrates me as the the Sony has better glass, frame rates, and the like. Really appreciate in advice!
 
Well, if you love canon colors and need 422, then go that route. In my experience Sony with s-gamut and s-log2 can give very nice pictures, but skintones sometimes require some work in post. It all depends if you value more colors or functions in a camera.

We work with a pletora of cameras (c100, f3, ax100, fz1000, samsung nx1, sony rx10ii, a7s), and our core business is stock as well (search for dualstock and diego cervo on shutterstock).

I honestly prefer the colors of the samsung nx1, but I've been using sony cameras for so long that I'm used to deal with their issues.

The RX10 mark II is becoming my favorite camera. I don't own the XC10, but for the price the former it's really hard to beat. The lens is very good with a 2.8 fixed aperture and the slowmotion is amazing. 120p is so detailed! 240p is ok, like 120p on the samsung NX1. It's a bit mushy but totally usable for stock.
The image is organic, the base iso is 800 in slog and rolling shutter is under control.

Autofocus is decent, nothing to write home about, but Sony may release a firmware update to improve it as they did with the AX100, which I've been using on a gimbal in AF for some time with excellent results.

The menu of the RX10 II is easy to navigate and there are many buttons that can be customized as you like.

The real PITA is that there are no remote controllers to control focus.
For instance the AX100 works like a charm with the cheap vivitar 8 buttons remote control. You can manual focus with it, power the camera on/off, zoom and trigger it. Even though the RX10 has a multi port, its LANC is very limited to zoom and start/stop only with the overpriced sony RM-VPR1. I have a fotga remote on order and will report here if it works.

If you plan to use the camera on a gimbal, then you should seriously consider its autofocus skills or to use a lanc remote for focusing manually. Sure, with a 1 inch sensor you can narrow the aperture down and get a wide depth of field, but you'll be limited anyway if you want to start your scene with a Closeup and end it with a WS 5 meters away from your model.
The sony zeiss lens gives very good pictures but it's focused by wire and it's not a lens that you can use with a traditional follow focus.

Hope this helps,
Diego
 
Very helpful Diego, I shoot stock all the time and all over the place that is one reason I want a system like this with good reach and decent wide without having to mess around with changing lenses. My question is Sony s-log2. I don't mind correcting colors some but time is money for me and if I have to wrestle with skin tones that will drive me nuts. I do a lot of people shoots. I much prefer the file size and slow motion, lens and many other features on the Sony but don't want to buy it only to hate the skin tones. Money is not the factor here although the savings would be nice. I am a one man band so I do all my editing on my own. PS Great stock work! enjoyed looking at your clips and images!
 
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You're very welcome JJ :)

I see your point. We do the same job and most of the time I work solo as well.
It's not easy to choose a camera. These days there are so many cameras that can deliver great images at a low price point, but none of them is perfect. There are always some limitations here and there to deal with.

Maybe this can help you to decide.
Today I had to help my wife with a project for her English class at Uni. She and some mates of her had to record a short video and they asked me to help them.
Here are some grabs recorded with the RX10 II.
All was shot with available (terrible) light, which was a mix of daylight filtered through yellow glass, and the ceiling led fixtures that you may expect to find in a public building. No reflectors, no flags, nothing other than the camera, a RODE and a monopod.

I recorded in HD with slog2 and sgamut. It took me less than 10 mins in DaVinci and 3 nodes to make a look. 1st node was for exposure and contrast, 2nd for saturation, hue to hue and sat to lum, 3rd for applying a LUT developed by Alister Chapman (the filmic lute 1 stop over).

Now, if you like the skintones of these scenes, recorded in an "uncontrolled" environment, then buy the RX10.
Otherwise, if most of your work is based on available light and you're not sure about sony colors, then you'd better invest your money with Canon.

Other than that, I can tell you that has been a pleasure to work 2 hours with that camera. The lens shows very little chromatic aberrations and having a fixed 2.8 zoom helps a lot when changing focal length.
Buttons placement are perfect to me. The active steadyshot made my life easier because I didn't have to take the tripod with me. A monopod was more than enough.

All the best,
Diego

stills from UIP_1.1.1.jpgstills from UIP_1.6.1.jpgstills from UIP_2.2.1.jpgstills from UIP_2.4.1.jpg
 
For me the choice of the XC10 over the RX10ii was an easy one. The Canon ticked all the boxes for me but the RX10ii didn't.
So I there is any questions or anything about the XC10 I can try to answer.

One thing that's often missed but a pretty big deal for me is that its parfocal. It has a punch in focus assist as well but that can never really replace optical imo.
Its also constant aperture while zooming, so you can rack zoom and keep both exposure and zoom.
 
Lobbamobba said:
For me the choice of the XC10 over the RX10ii was an easy one. The Canon ticked all the boxes for me but the RX10ii didn't.
So I there is any questions or anything about the XC10 I can try to answer.

One thing that's often missed but a pretty big deal for me is that its parfocal. It has a punch in focus assist as well but that can never really replace optical imo.
Its also constant aperture while zooming, so you can rack zoom and keep both exposure and zoom.
Click to expand...

Did you Create a box for the price comparision?
 
jjneff said:
The XC10 has a constant Aperture while zooming? What features on the XC10 won you over?
Click to expand...

Yes, If you have it at f5.6 240mm and zoom out there is no change and vice versa. As well as f4.0 85mm and out.
That's not always the case with other cameras/lenses.
Its electronic so not perfect but you can zoom pretty fast without changes.

I wanted high bitrate (not just 100mbit), 422, Log, Built in ND, good form factor, nice color, long zoom and IS.
Basically I've been waiting on a 1" XA20 but with XF100 codec. This was it for me.

I of course had a long look at the RX10ii as well and certainly understand why many will go that route.
Easiest would be to have both ;)
 
I do have a question on the Canon and Sony. How good is the camera stabilization in 1080HD on these two cameras? I have an olympus EM1 and the it is amazing, allows me to use the camera and get shots that have been impossible without extra gear.
 
Talking rx10 II, in HD you can shoot with the active steadyshot on. It will greatly improve your footage when shooting handheld.
 
Thanks, I wonder how good it is compared to my EM1 but I am use to working this way and get results I like so that is great to hear!
 
jjneff said:
I do have a question on the Canon and Sony. How good is the camera stabilization in 1080HD on these two cameras? I have an olympus EM1 and the it is amazing, allows me to use the camera and get shots that have been impossible without extra gear.
Click to expand...

Ive had the Olympus E-M5 and that had the same great IBIS as the E-M1.
The XC10 isn't as good but pretty darn good. No problem shooting hand held.

Im uploading a video later tonight all shot hand held in 4K mostly at 240mm (from a race track).
I believe its even steadier with to extra axis in 1080p but Im not sure about that, haven't tested HD accept fro slowmo.
Keep an eye in the Canon section and it will be posted there. Might be a while since I plan on mixing in the in camera audio and do some grading.
 
Well I went out and bought the XC10. Sure, it has its quirks like the vari aperture lens but it's not all as bad as one thinks. It's a 1 inch sensor so I'm not after super shallow DOF. In fact, I wanted quite the opposite. Sorta the s16 look. And it really does deliver that.

It's rather the codec and C-log I was after. And it's damn good. Also, I don't think I've ever seen such a lack of aliasing in a camera. Especially highlight aliasing. And ALL Sony's under the F5 exhibit that highlight aliasing. The XC10s highlights on fine lines are just smooth as can be. And the C-log 4K is not overly sharp. It's quite creamy. Detailed and resolute, but not artificially sharp like most of the smaller 4K cameras. Quite lovely in fact.

The lens seems to be par focal. The AF is really quite good. Nice and smooth. And the build is quite better than I thought based on early report. The viewfinder is kinda goofy but it does the job. 1080/60 is quite fine with me. In fact, I loathe the upcoming wave of 240fps we'll see out of the RX10II. But that's me. Not really a slow-motion guy.

And of course, Canon's color. I'm just a sucker for it. This should be a great run and gun take all over the place 4K device. I'm pretty pleased with it so far.

The RX10II looks like a great little camera. I know the lens on it rocks as I had the V1 of it. I'm just not too sure how the 100Mbit 4K will handle with S-log 2. And quite frankly, I hate S-Log 2. But for the price and some of the features in it, I'm sure its a solid buy.
 
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