Sony reveals 1st NXCAM camcorder: HXR-NX5U

[John_in_NY]

Ya.. same here... Get this sucka down to right at $4K and we're talking.

We'll see what Panny does next. I'd rather my next cam be a Panny (I like Sony, but LOVE my Pannys)

What is interesting is that all of my camcorders I purchased over the past 20 years were all Sony, because I preferred their image quality and features. Then in 2007, I purchased my first non-Sony camera, the Canon HV20. My previous main DV cam was the Sony VX-2000, which delivers fantastic quality for standard definition. I love the form factor of the Sony VX-2000 and the new NXCAM cameras. For appearance and low light sensitivity, the Sony seems more appealing to me. However, when I compare Adam Wilt's sample images of resolution charts, between the Sony NXCAM and the Panasonic HMC40, I prefer the sharpness of the Panasonic HMC40.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/preview_sony_nxcam/P1/
http://provideocoalition.com/index....anasonic_ag_hmc40_1_4_3_cmos_hd_camcorder/P2/

Plus the HMC40 costs significantly less than the NX5U.

 

[dcloud]

my only qulams is the price & it needs an updated sensor.. not a rehashed z5u sensor... i dont need the gps either.

 

[ATL Media Group]

What is interesting is that all of my camcorders I purchased over the past 20 years were all Sony, because I preferred their image quality and features. Then in 2007, I purchased my first non-Sony camera, the Canon HV20. My previous main DV cam was the Sony VX-2000, which delivers fantastic quality for standard definition. I love the form factor of the Sony VX-2000 and the new NXCAM cameras. For appearance and low light sensitivity, the Sony seems more appealing to me. However, when I compare Adam Wilt's sample images of resolution charts, between the Sony NXCAM and the Panasonic HMC40, I prefer the sharpness of the Panasonic HMC40.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/preview_sony_nxcam/P1/
http://provideocoalition.com/index....anasonic_ag_hmc40_1_4_3_cmos_hd_camcorder/P2/

Plus the HMC40 costs significantly less than the NX5U.

While I really like the HMC40 and think it's a great cam. I don't think it compares to the Sony, just like it doesn't compare to the HMC150. If resolution were the only factor, then the HMC40 would probably win. Once you factor in the other more professional features, the glass, and the low light performance the HMC40 is just outclassed by both the HMC150 and the Sony NXCams.

 

[ATL Media Group]

my only qulams is the price & it needs an updated sensor.. not a rehashed z5u sensor... i dont need the gps either.

Actually, the Z5 was limited to the recording format (HDV)... The sensor was not fully utilized until now with the NXCam.
If they put in larger sensors they be competing with the EX series. Who would buy an EX1R for $7K when for $5K they can have the same cam that records on SDHC in AVCHD? Would $2K for the XDCamEX codec be a good deal?

 

[jchristie]

I love the idea of double recording to cards and the 128 GB solid state unit. No more fears about losing data to flaky SDHC cards. It really looks like Sony is gunning for the HMC150 market. I'm not going to dump my 150 but it makes you think . . .

 

[ATL Media Group]

I love the idea of double recording to cards and the 128 GB solid state unit. No more fears about losing data to flaky SDHC cards. It really looks like Sony is gunning for the HMC150 market. I'm not going to dump my 150 but it makes you think . . .

Me too... Even better is that you can control which record button operates which storage device! So you can do a full constant record to the 128 GB drive and backup the "most important" shots by recording just those to the SDHC.

 

[Nektonic]

I'm still waiting to see what Canon and Panasonic come up with for cams in this price range.

I suppose we might not find out much until NAB.

 

[ATL Media Group]

Same here.. Especially Panasonic. I really don't care for the menu nav and layout on recent Canon cams.

 

[Robert M Wright]

...when I compare Adam Wilt's sample images of resolution charts, between the Sony NXCAM and the Panasonic HMC40, I prefer the sharpness of the Panasonic HMC40.

From looking Adam Wilt's charts, it sure seems likely to me that real world images, from the NX5U and HMC40, will be quite close as far as image detail - roughly a good 800 lines of real, recorded resolution. The two cameras might actually be very complimentary, for cutting footage together with them.

I sure wouldn't use images from a Z5U as a yardstick to approximate what the images from a NX5U will look like. HDV image compression is considerably more brutal than (full bitrate) AVCHD image compression. I seriously doubt that images from any sensor(s), after HDV encoding, could retain as much detail as the HMC40 can deliver.

I don't get why folks knock the HMC40 for low light performance. That's like knocking a camcorder with 1/3" imagers for not performing as well as an EX1 in less than ideal lighting. It's simply not realistic to expect a camcorder with 1/4" imagers, costing about half as much, to perform nearly as well in dim lighting as an HMC150 (or the NX5U). For a camcorder employing three 1/4" imagers, and costing less than $2k at that, the HMC40 does very well.

The HMC40 isn't exactly a lightweight consumer camcorder, when it comes to manual controls either, especially when you consider the amount of real-estate on the camera for putting buttons and switches on - Panasonic did a fantastic job in that regard also, with the HMC40.

If the NX5U delivers even close to the same value, as an HMC40 does for a $2k camcorder, it's going to be a whale of a camcorder for it's class.

The AX2000 though, is the camcorder that I think will put the most downward price pressure on the HMC150. A heck of a lot of folks use the HMC150 to shoot 1080 line video, and simply don't shoot 720p hardly at all. For those folks, the AX2000 looks like it will almost assuredly deliver a notably finer detailed image, and at a significantly lower price (more than 10% lower, assuming the street price does wind up being about $3000 - which is starting to look like a pretty safe bet really).

 

[Robert M Wright]

I bet shortly after the AX2000 starts shipping, we might start seeing a significant number of HMC150s priced below $2500 used. That would actually get me fairly interested in a used HMC150. I'd like to have the capability of shooting 1080 line video that's as detailed as what the HMC40 can deliver, but my primary interest is in shooting 720p60, which could make the HMC150 attractive to me, at the right price. For shooting 1080 line video, I don't see a huge advantage with the HMC150, compared to an XH-A1 (some advantage, but not enough to get me interested at a significantly higher cost).

 

[ATL Media Group]

I don't get why folks knock the HMC40 for low light performance. That's like knocking a camcorder with 1/3" imagers for not performing as well as an EX1 in less than ideal lighting. It's simply not realistic to expect a camcorder with 1/4" imagers, costing about half as much, to perform nearly as well in dim lighting as an HMC150 (or the NX5U). For a camcorder employing three 1/4" imagers, and costing less than $2k at that, the HMC40 does very well..

Just to be clear... I wasn't knocking the HMC40's lowlight. I was saying that *when compared* to the NXCam or HMC150 it wouldn't be as good in low light. They outclass it just like the EX1 outclasses them due to 1/2" chips. That's all I was saying. The HMC40 is an awesome cam especially for the price.

 

[John_in_NY]

While I really like the HMC40 and think it's a great cam. I don't think it compares to the Sony, just like it doesn't compare to the HMC150. If resolution were the only factor, then the HMC40 would probably win. Once you factor in the other more professional features, the glass, and the low light performance the HMC40 is just outclassed by both the HMC150 and the Sony NXCams.

There is no question that the HMC40 couldn't hold a candle (no pun intended) to those other cams for low light performance. But regarding the lens of the HMC40, these comments by Adam Wilt got my attention:

“Distortion throughout the zoom range is so low as to be virtually nonexistent. There is just a tiny bit of pincushioning towards the corners of the image, but I mention this only to prove that I went looking for it; it’s nothing that you’ll ever see in any practical shooting situation....The lens is more than adequate as far as basic resolving power is concerned. None of my mid-zoom to telephoto shots were anything less than pin-sharp. However, it sometimes lacked a bit of crispness in wide shots; I think the lens may be slightly softer at full wide angle that when it’s zoomed in a bit. As you’ll see below, resolution charts look pretty darn good, but they were shot with the lens zoomed in a bit; I didn’t think to check the lens’s chart performance at the extremes until after I had returned the camera.”

 

[Robert M Wright]

Panasonic deserves a lot of credit for both the HMC150 and the HMC40 (but none for the HMC70!). They made professional caliber AVCHD camcorders a genuine reality in 2009, and in a big way, with some well designed products, competitively priced.

It seems to me that Panasonic set the bar high enough, with Sony and Canon poised to bring out competing products now, that 2010 holds a lot of promise for bringing us much closer to very affordable and versatile HD video camcorders being widely available to the masses, which come quite close to delivering broadcast quality images.

 

[Robert M Wright]

I get the impression the HMC40 isn't selling all that well (thinking that might be a reason for the current Blu-Ray player giveaway with the HMC40). I hope that's not the case though. I see the HMC40 as nicely filling a gap. It's sort of akin to what the DVC30 and GL2 were to SD. I hope one of the other majors comes out with a real affordable pro-sumer level three 1/4" chipper too. I really like the blend of performance, portability, easy handling and price - in many circumstances and for many purposes, considerably more ideal than either a consumer camcorder or a larger prosumer camcorder ever could be.

 

[John_in_NY]

I get the impression the HMC40 isn't selling all that well (thinking that might be a reason for the current Blu-Ray player giveaway with the HMC40). I hope that's not the case though. I see the HMC40 as nicely filling a gap. It's sort of akin to what the DVC30 and GL2 were to SD. I hope one of the other majors comes out with a real affordable pro-sumer level three 1/4" chipper too. I really like the blend of performance, portability, easy handling and price - in many circumstances and for many purposes, considerably more ideal than either a consumer camcorder or a larger prosumer camcorder ever could be.

I am surprised that the HMC40 has not been a bigger hit. For a pro camera at its price level it has no peer. I suppose the low light sensitivity is too much of an issue for many videographers. I am also surprised Canon hasn't introduced a pro AVCHD camera yet. But now that AVCHD surpasses HDV in both performance and bit rate efficiency, it shouldn't be long for Canon to enter with a competing model, especially since flash memory-based cameras have supplanted tape-based cameras. I seriously considered the Canon XHA1, but I couldn't justify spending over $3,000 in what is now an obsolete technology. At about $2,000, the HMC40 does fill that gap.

 

[John_in_NY]

Panasonic deserves a lot of credit for both the HMC150 and the HMC40 (but none for the HMC70!). They made professional caliber AVCHD camcorders a genuine reality in 2009, and in a big way, with some well designed products, competitively priced.

It seems to me that Panasonic set the bar high enough, with Sony and Canon poised to bring out competing products now, that 2010 holds a lot of promise for bringing us much closer to very affordable and versatile HD video camcorders being widely available to the masses, which come quite close to delivering broadcast quality images.

I agree. At first, I was intrigued by the HMC70, but I was very disappointed in the low density pixel count of the sensors. I don't get excited by camcorders that rely on interpolation to "uprez" their picture. The HMC40 has full resolution sensors, but both the HMC150 and the NX5U do not. Interpolation has its limitations. As Adam Wilt said about the NX5U:

"The NX5U’s images are virtually identical to those from the HVR-Z5U; they’re nearly as sharp as images from full-resolution 1920x1080 sensors. The only real giveaway is that there’s some slight stair-stepping or jaggies on fine detail and high-contrast edges, such as backlit window frames, specular highlights, and lighting fixtures."

 

[Robert M Wright]

The NX5U relies on pixel shifting technology, but not nearly to the extreme that the HMC150 does. When it comes to shooting real world images, the image detail from the NX5U will almost assuredly be much closer to the HMC40 than the HMC150. From the res charts, it looks like NX5U will be able to resolve 800 lines pretty cleanly, which is real close to what the HMC40 does, and just way more than the HMC150 at about 600 lines.

 

[John_in_NY]

The NX5U relies on pixel shifting technology, but not nearly to the extreme that the HMC150 does. When it comes to shooting real world images, the image detail from the NX5U will almost assuredly be much closer to the HMC40 than the HMC150. From the res charts, it looks like NX5U will be able to resolve 800 lines pretty cleanly, which is real close to what the HMC40 does, and just way more than the HMC150 at about 600 lines.

That was the reason I didn't get the HMC150. It has a clean picture, but it significantly lacks the crisp detail the format is capable of, which is what I am looking for. If the HMC150's successor had chips that resolve closer to 1000 lines that would kick butt.

 

[Kellar42]

The only thing that bugs me about the HMC40 is that I see it being almost identical to an HFS100 in a somewhat more professional looking package, with the possibility of XLR inputs, and easier access to manual controls. A small, semi-professional package would seem perfect for someone like me, but I don't see myself getting better images for $1,100 more right now.

 

[Camera Expert]

The AX2000 though, is the camcorder that I think will put the most downward price pressure on the HMC150. A heck of a lot of folks use the HMC150 to shoot 1080 line video, and simply don't shoot 720p hardly at all. For those folks, the AX2000 looks like it will almost assuredly deliver a notably finer detailed image, and at a significantly lower price (more than 10% lower, assuming the street price does wind up being about $3000 - which is starting to look like a pretty safe bet really).

The HMC150 is a much better value than the AX2000. If you want slow motion or if your shooting sports, your far better off shooting 720 60p. Having 720p modes are very significant. Another negative about the AX2000 is the fact that 1080 24p gets put inside a 1080 60i steam so your forced to remove pull down. Its embarrassing that even Canon's new top consumer camcorders has native 24p.

The current pre sale price is $3,500 at both Amazon and B&H and that's more than the HMC150 and even if it ends up being $3,000 it would still seams a little high for a gimped camera.