FS5: Sony PXW-FX6

docmoore said:
Eugene at Competitive is very good ... big store in a small storefront ... and the store does make an effort to get
what you need if the manufacturer will allow them to sell it.
[...]
Share your insights ... not a lot of information other than what shows up here ... and the initial CVP reviews.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm pretty sure it was Eugene I spoke with. Very nice and helpful. I'm not in the DFW area but I definitely plan on using his store again.

No big insights yet, as I've barely had a chance to really test out the camera. I've just done some initial setup and button configuration, as well as a few test shots of one of my beagles. The weather where I am is brutally cold this week so it'll likely be a few days before I can comfortably shoot outside. In the meantime I'll probably be limited to some indoor tests. Unfortunately I'm also swamped with some editing work, which is preventing me from really diving into the camera...

But my initial thoughts are:
* the handgrip is much more secure than the Fs5
* I'm really loving the stock LCD—this is worlds better than the FS5. I can actually tell when things are in focus, and focus magnification is surprisingly usable.
* the touch screen and quick menu are great, although it is a little frustrating when some menu items can't be changed this way while others can
* battery life even with the tiny BP-U35 isn't terrible

Teddy_Dem said:
For those looking to shoot ProRes RAW with the FX6, Atomos have released an updated Ninja V Pro Kit, that allows RAW recording to the Ninja V with the Atom X SDI module, which gives you an additional option to the Shogun 7, if you don't want to user a monitor of that size. Kit is $999. Current owners of the Ninja V and the Atom X SDI can activate the RAW recording through the SDI with a $99 activation key:
Click to expand...

It looks like Atomos listened to those of us clamoring for a 5" recorder! I don't have much interest in ProRes RAW but the prospect of cheaper media (SSDs) is nice.

EDIT: Disappointingly (but perhaps not surprisingly) Atomos has chosen to not make this update to the Ninja V compatible with the raw output from the Fs5, FS7, or FS700. Sigh...
 
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I talked with Eugene today ... went down for a visit.

At my request he is in the process of signing up to offer the Sony Pro extended warranty ... extra three years ... you may want to call him
at your convenience.

Last I heard the Atom X SDI did not allow RAW recording ... good if they have changed that .... I just traded my PIX-E5 and honestly the difference
in 5 vs 7 is not that much ... either one changes the feel of the camera. Been using an external monitor for years ... since my Odyssey 7Q+ on the
original A7s ... and the bigger monitor is bit easier to view.

Now if Zacuto will ship my Z-Finder ....
 
drboffa said:
Yep, I'm pretty sure it was Eugene I spoke with. Very nice and helpful. I'm not in the DFW area but I definitely plan on using his store again.

No big insights yet, as I've barely had a chance to really test out the camera. I've just done some initial setup and button configuration, as well as a few test shots of one of my beagles. The weather where I am is brutally cold this week so it'll likely be a few days before I can comfortably shoot outside. In the meantime I'll probably be limited to some indoor tests. Unfortunately I'm also swamped with some editing work, which is preventing me from really diving into the camera...

But my initial thoughts are:
* the handgrip is much more secure than the Fs5
* I'm really loving the stock LCD—this is worlds better than the FS5. I can actually tell when things are in focus, and focus magnification is surprisingly usable.
* the touch screen and quick menu are great, although it is a little frustrating when some menu items can't be changed this way while others can
* battery life even with the tiny BP-U35 isn't terrible



It looks like Atomos listened to those of us clamoring for a 5" recorder! I don't have much interest in ProRes RAW but the prospect of cheaper media (SSDs) is nice.

EDIT: Disappointingly (but perhaps not surprisingly) Atomos has chosen to not make this update to the Ninja V compatible with the raw output from the Fs5, FS7, or FS700. Sigh...
Click to expand...

Well the will accept the RAW in the end of the month, but you will need the AtomosX SDI module and 99 dollar update.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/02/11/atomos-ninja-v-pro-kit-raw-over-sdi/
 
Teddy_Dem said:
For those looking to shoot ProRes RAW with the FX6, Atomos have released an updated Ninja V Pro Kit, that allows RAW recording to the Ninja V with the Atom X SDI module, which gives you an additional option to the Shogun 7, if you don't want to user a monitor of that size. Kit is $949. Current owners of the Ninja V and the Atom X SDI can activate the RAW recording through the SDI with a $99 activation key:
Click to expand...

Strange, according to the info in the chart Prores RAW would be up to 4K DCI, not little extra of the full sensor resolution. Not sure how it's RAW then.
 
broughtonfilm said:
Strange, according to the info in the chart Prores RAW would be up to 4K DCI, not little extra of the full sensor resolution. Not sure how it's RAW then.
Click to expand...

Probably because "raw" at this point is a pretty nebulous term that no longer means "un-debayered sensor data" (or maybe has been for a while now).
 
Most definitely...IMO, "RAW" means, "This is the best quality from us, for this camera."

Will anyone notice a major difference opposed to something else in there that's also very good, probably not.
 
Apparently the inability of the Ninja V to take the Fs5/FS7/FS700 raw stream is a hardware issue (i.e., the Ninja V does not have the processing power): http://disq.us/p/2f1v0kx

Presumably the cameras that do work with the Ninja V are thus doing a fair bit of processing to the "raw" stream before sending it out.
 
DSCF4741.jpg

I didn't expect it to arrive yet but today it came. It's a shrunken FS7 with all the goodies.
 
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NorBro said:
Most definitely...IMO, "RAW" means, "This is the best quality from us, for this camera."

Will anyone notice a major difference opposed to something else in there that's also very good, probably not.
Click to expand...

Just fyi, as I understand it, raw has never been “straight off the sensor with no processing”.

Sensors are analog devices, they have really unusable output with no clean up. Remember what fixed pattern noise looks like? Well the sensor always outputs that, it’s up to the first stage of processing to characterize those sensor-to-sensor variations and clean them up.

There’s a tweet out there with the first image ever made from the Alexa Mini prototype. It looks awful. The sensor in that prototype had not been “characterized” yet.

So my point was, raw has never been “no processing”. Maybe the better way to put it is raw is “without destructive processing”
 
Nate Weaver said:
Just fyi, as I understand it, raw has never been “straight off the sensor with no processing”.

Sensors are analog devices, they have really unusable output with no clean up. Remember what fixed pattern noise looks like? Well the sensor always outputs that, it’s up to the first stage of processing to characterize those sensor-to-sensor variations and clean them up.

There’s a tweet out there with the first image ever made from the Alexa Mini prototype. It looks awful. The sensor in that prototype had not been “characterized” yet.

So my point was, raw has never been “no processing”. Maybe the better way to put it is raw is “without destructive processing”
Click to expand...

Probably should quote the other guy who alluded to it; I'm just opinioning RAW's definition has been subject to change.
 
Here's another shout to Competitive Camera in Dallas. I don't live there either but been in the store many times, have never managed to leave without something, helpful people.
 
So here’s one I don’t quite understand. I was going through my FX6’s menus today when I got curious about seeing how low the shutter speed could go. I thought that when using the camera in the interval mode for a timelapse, it might be useful to know what kind of shutter speeds are available for creative purposes.

I noticed after scrolling down to 1/24th that the numbers start to go 2F, 3F, 4F, etc. This is a new one for me as I’ve never seen shutter speeds labeled with an F before. Can anyone explain to me what that means?

IMG_1612.jpg
 
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I'm guessing 2 frames, 3 frames, etc. So, if you have 24fps then you'll end up with 2 repeated frames of 1/12 shutter, or 3 repeated frames of 1/8 shutter, etc.

But that's just my guess. My GH5 operates like that except that it reads out the shutter speed (1/4, 1/2 etc) and then records the correlated number of repeated frames
 
NorBro said:
Probably should quote the other guy who alluded to it; I'm just opinioning RAW's definition has been subject to change.
Click to expand...

Totally get it. All good.

It was a long time before I knew how the sausage was made. Today’s really good cameras rely on very, very clever processing (and sometimes processor intensive, see Alexa) to get that image.
 
Yeah, I dunno...you'll have to elaborate on what you mean by "very, very clever processing"...

I can name about 25 different new cameras off the top of my head ranging from $500 to $10000 that all look similar.

Processing certainly plays a part in the image creation (of course it does), but there are other components that the processing relies on like the sensor, the color science that was determined to be correct (at one point we had 10 major companies who all had their boxes see several colors differently), and in the case of the decade+ Alexa which had most of its success licensing ProRes from Apple, "the use of large photosites and a Dual Gain Architecture are its two main principles" according to ARRI.*

So if the Alexa had very clever processing but a different sensor with small photosites and no dual gain architecture, you probably wouldn't have the same sausage.

*https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/technology/alev-sensors
 
So has anyone tried to mix FS7 footage with the FX6 yet? I'm curious as Im shooting a TV series where we use 2 FS7 and a few DJI action cams. I would like to upgrade the cameras for the next season (ideally one FX9 and one FX6), but financially I would be wiser to get one now, and one for the season after that. Im just afraid how they would cut together
 
Yoak said:
So has anyone tried to mix FS7 footage with the FX6 yet? I'm curious as Im shooting a TV series where we use 2 FS7 and a few DJI action cams. I would like to upgrade the cameras for the next season (ideally one FX9 and one FX6), but financially I would be wiser to get one now, and one for the season after that. Im just afraid how they would cut together
Click to expand...

Haven't tried with FX6, but based on experiences with FX9 / FS7 I wouldn't try to match them unless shooting Log and working with a really good colorist (and decent color correction budget.) I've found it easier matching the EVA1 to the FX9's than trying to get an FS7 to match with multiple FX9's on a multicamera show.
But don't take my word... Shoot some tests in multiple lighting situations!
 
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