FS5: Sony PXW-FX6

Andy9 said:
Worst case on the FS5 was shooting with minimum ND and +6db gain. This seemed to happen all the time!
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Ha! I had to do this exact technique on a building promo shoot back in the fall—luckily the footage was still pretty clean, but it wasn't ideal. And really the variable ND was invaluable for walking between zones being hit by direct sun under skylights and dimly lit hallways.

Glad to hear the FX6 is working out so well for you. I've just heard that B&H is expecting more in mid-February, so I'm hoping my order will get fulfilled then. I've been doing some early morning / late day shoots (just for personal work) recently and I could really use a camera that tolerates higher ISO/gain better.
 
Andy9 said:
Coming from the FS5, I've had it for about a week and done one job with it. Love it so far. Random observations:

- S-cinetone is more contrasty than I expected. I really like it. I'll be using it for any no-grade shooting.
- There is a nicely-designed and located multi-function dial you can map to gain. Between variable ND and the gain dial this is by far the quickest and easiest camera to expose I've ever used.
- When shooting handheld, you can feel the warm air blowing out onto your hand. This thing shifts some heat!
- Like the FS5, it feels like it's about 3 assignable buttons short. I really wish you could re-map the gain / WB / shutter buttons.
- I wish you could set white balance with a moveable square like on the a7siii
- A lot of online talk about the autofocus UI has been about how it doesn't have touch tracking (like the a7siii). Still, I'm quite impressed with how, even after just one job, I'm fast and comfortable switching between manual / AF / face-tracking AF. Wonderful.

Edited to add: The (very) high base ISO makes sense when combined with the variable ND. For any interiors (even bright ones) you can shoot in high base and ride the ND for exposure all day. With the FS5 I was always engaging / disengaging the ND as exposure moved from slightly below the minimum ND threshold to slightly above. Worst case on the FS5 was shooting with minimum ND and +6db gain. This seemed to happen all the time!
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Thanks for the post. If you or anyone else with the cam is willing to test it, I'm very interested in seeing what the quality loss is like with clear scan for S35.

Also, more broadly, I'd love to see what normal handheld footage on a long-ish lens looks like when stabilized with Catalyst without resorting to using higher shutter speeds (smaller shutter angle)? Say, on a 85mm lens in a non action-y scene, just trying to hold a shot steady. I keep seeing everyone say that you need to use higher shutter speeds if you want to stabilize in Catalyst, but that would definitely mess with motion cadence look and feel, no? When I shoot handheld, I'm rarely whipping the camera around. For really dynamic stuff, I use a gimbal. However, for regular handheld stuff, I just want to be able to get really usable shots on longer lenses without needing to add 15 LBS to the rig and put it on my shoulder. Stabilized lenses are fine, but when you own glass that you like for its look, it's nice to be able to use it. For example, my Leica R's are tiny, so they won't be able to help reduce microjitters with their small mass. But I love them, so I'd want to be able to use them without a gimbal.
 
Andy9 said:
Coming from the FS5, I've had it for about a week and done one job with it. Love it so far. Random observations:

- S-cinetone is more contrasty than I expected. I really like it. I'll be using it for any no-grade shooting.
- There is a nicely-designed and located multi-function dial you can map to gain. Between variable ND and the gain dial this is by far the quickest and easiest camera to expose I've ever used.
- When shooting handheld, you can feel the warm air blowing out onto your hand. This thing shifts some heat!
- Like the FS5, it feels like it's about 3 assignable buttons short. I really wish you could re-map the gain / WB / shutter buttons.
- I wish you could set white balance with a moveable square like on the a7siii
- A lot of online talk about the autofocus UI has been about how it doesn't have touch tracking (like the a7siii). Still, I'm quite impressed with how, even after just one job, I'm fast and comfortable switching between manual / AF / face-tracking AF. Wonderful.

Edited to add: The (very) high base ISO makes sense when combined with the variable ND. For any interiors (even bright ones) you can shoot in high base and ride the ND for exposure all day. With the FS5 I was always engaging / disengaging the ND as exposure moved from slightly below the minimum ND threshold to slightly above. Worst case on the FS5 was shooting with minimum ND and +6db gain. This seemed to happen all the time!
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How is the lcd in the sun? Does the shade do anything? Thanks
 
scorsesefan said:
How is the lcd in the sun? Does the shade do anything? Thanks
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Absolutely not. The LCD is totally useless in daylight unless you just want to aim the camera in the general direction of the subject and let exposure and focus run on auto. The lack of a viewfinder, or a loupe, or a better LCD is my biggest gripe about the camera. Don't even get me started.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Absolutely not. The LCD is totally useless in daylight unless you just want to aim the camera in the general direction of the subject and let exposure and focus run on auto. The lack of a viewfinder, or a loupe, or a better LCD is my biggest gripe about the camera. Don't even get me started.
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This is unfortunate—although I have to assume (hope?) it's worlds better than the Fs5 LCD. I'm at the point where I don't trust the Fs5 LCD for focus ever, even in the best of conditions; if I can at least rely on the FX6 LCD for focus and exposure in ideal conditions then I'll be happy. But maybe you've found this isn't the case...
 
Doug Jensen said:
Absolutely not. The LCD is totally useless in daylight unless
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My current hunt for a midrange mid price mid mass camera has lead me to think my next camera with be the C200 (C300 would be better but too costy)

One reason is the Rear EVF which I noticed to be suprisingly comfortable and certainly usable. Making the camera (to me) more desirable than the C70 or FX6 which both offer many things the C200 does not.

I find the F5 EVF to be so small as to poke one in the eye
 
morgan_moore said:
My current hunt for a midrange mid price mid mass camera has lead me to think my next camera with be the C200 (C300 would be better but too costy)

One reason is the Rear EVF which I noticed to be suprisingly comfortable and certainly usable. Making the camera (to me) more desirable than the C70 or FX6 which both offer many things the C200 does not.

I find the F5 EVF to be so small as to poke one in the eye
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I found the C200 evf just as s*%tty and pointless as every other “built-in” evf I’ve encountered (F3, C300ii, FS5, C500ii). Even for vague framing I find them all too frustrating to use.

A high-quality evf or loupe, paired with a high-quality (and easily adjustable) mounting system is the only way to get any real joy on that front.

After Zacuto’s Axis Mini gave me a second black eye (seriously), I abandoned the “mid-range” mounting options, and now I just adapt the Arri 19mm based system to everything I use. With some sensible bracketry, I now have a near perfect setup with that (including being able to angle the evf or monitor I’m using sideways in just a few seconds.

It comes at the cost of a couple of hundred grams extra weight, but the speed and flexibility takes all the pain out of monitoring- so it’s worth it.

The only other options I’d consider these days, are the Upgrade Innovations “Rudy Arm” (which is a brilliant 15mm rod-based system, or possibly Wooden Camera’s “UVF” system (which combines 15mm rods and Nato rail for speed + rigidity).
 
I think peaking on the FX6 is better than on the FS5 (it certainly looks more refined). I haven't been using the camera for long enough to really gauge accuracy though.

I use one of these on the FX6:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ackmagic_pocket_2ea_mounting_plates_soft.html

It's not quite the right size so you lose about a millimetre of visibility on either side, the optics are not perfect, it fogs up horribly while wearing a mask... oh and you have to stick the magnetic frame to the LCD. On the other hand it weighs nothing and it works (certainly better than the FS5 EVF).

"A high-quality evf or loupe, paired with a high-quality (and easily adjustable) mounting system is the only way to get any real joy on that front." I absolutely agree, don't think I'm quite there yet.
 
Andy9 said:
I think peaking on the FX6 is better than on the FS5 (it certainly looks more refined). I haven't been using the camera for long enough to really gauge accuracy though.

I use one of these on the FX6:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ackmagic_pocket_2ea_mounting_plates_soft.html
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That's the exact loupe I use on my Fs5 :smile:

Unfortunately it has all the shortcomings you mention and it's just magnifying a crappy image from the Fs5 LCD. But it works and is less bulky than the Zacuto Z-finder. I attach mine with gaffer tape so it's nice to know it can work in a pinch on the FX6.


Grug said:
A high-quality evf or loupe, paired with a high-quality (and easily adjustable) mounting system is the only way to get any real joy on that front.
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It's tough for me to see in your pictures Grug but how are you routing things to get video out to both the Shogun 7 and the Gratical?
 
drboffa said:
I attach mine with gaffer tape so it's nice to know it can work in a pinch on the FX6.
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Huh, you better try it before you count on that. I don't care if the Kinotehnik only weighs as much as a feather, the LCD mounting system on the FX6 is so weak it can't even hold itself in place if you move the camera around. It is really a poor design. If Sony had an optional accessory viewfinder they were trying to upsell I'd say they made the mount crappy on purpose. But since they don't offer any kind of solution to the viewfinder problem, no matter how much you might be willing to pay, I have to chalk it up as incompetence by engineers who foolishly think professionals are going to run & gun with a freaking touch screen that can't even hold its own weight firmly in place. The viewfinder on the Z280 is excellent and wouldn't have added much to the cost.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Huh, you better try it before you count on that. I don't care if the Kinotehnik only weighs as much as a feather, the LCD mounting system on the FX6 is so weak it can't even hold itself in place if you move the camera around. It is really a poor design. If Sony had an optional accessory viewfinder they were trying to upsell I'd say they made the mount crappy on purpose. But since they don't offer any kind of solution to the viewfinder problem, no matter how much you might be willing to pay, I have to chalk it up as incompetence by engineers who foolishly think professionals are going to run & gun with a freaking touch screen that can't even hold its own weight firmly in place. The viewfinder on the Z280 is excellent and wouldn't have added much to the cost.
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Yikes—that's really unfortunate. I don't expect to receive mine prior to about mid-February so I've got some time to figure out possible solutions. In any event, I'm always curious to see how you and others are addressing these issues. And I appreciate the honesty about the camera's shortcomings.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Huh, you better try it before you count on that. I don't care if the Kinotehnik only weighs as much as a feather, the LCD mounting system on the FX6 is so weak it can't even hold itself in place if you move the camera around. It is really a poor design. If Sony had an optional accessory viewfinder they were trying to upsell I'd say they made the mount crappy on purpose. But since they don't offer any kind of solution to the viewfinder problem, no matter how much you might be willing to pay, I have to chalk it up as incompetence by engineers who foolishly think professionals are going to run & gun with a freaking touch screen that can't even hold its own weight firmly in place. The viewfinder on the Z280 is excellent and wouldn't have added much to the cost.
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Mine is definitely not that loose. I'd say it's marginally stiffer than the LCD mount on the FS5 - so not great, but not the disaster you're describing either. And it's fine with the Kinotehnik on.

This is a youtube comment copied below so by all means treat with scepticism:

"Regarding the EVF mount. When I made a comment about it at the store in NYC where there’s a demo unit which has the same floppy EVF mount, I was told that this is the issue with the first batch of the cameras. Apparently they were actually recalled because of that and other issues. A video from an Australian YouTuber released today seems to confirm the recall of the certain batch of FX6’s."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ede1JQVbDjc
 
morgan_moore said:
My current hunt for a midrange mid price mid mass camera has lead me to think my next camera with be the C200 (C300 would be better but too costy)

One reason is the Rear EVF which I noticed to be suprisingly comfortable and certainly usable. Making the camera (to me) more desirable than the C70 or FX6 which both offer many things the C200 does not.

I find the F5 EVF to be so small as to poke one in the eye
Click to expand...

I'm respectfully disagreeing with grug on the c200 EVF. With a bluestar eye cushion I recently used the EVF for about 8 hours outside. This isn't to say it's amazing compared to stronger options out there, just that I had no issues and it was no different to if I was viewing the touch screen indoors.

I always thought the middle/rear EVFs were in a strange position. Maybe they are but shooting with an easyrig exactly at eye level has never been more comfortable.

Overall I'm left wondering in the small-medium cinema camera space if it's better to have:
1) middle/rear built-in EVF
2) swing away loupe on LCD screen
3) nothing at all where the user figures out their EVF, or
4) nothing at all sony has created their own EVF which can be added "seamlessly" to your rig

I'm currently (and selfishly) leaning towards options 1 and 4.
 
Andy9 said:
If Sony sold the a7Siii EVF as an external unit I would pay proper money for it.
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That's the thing, isn't it? Sony knows how to make good viewfinders and good small screens. And sure the FX6 isn't priced like a Venice, but geez... I'm so ready to like (and possibly buy) that camera except for the LCD and EVF issues (and historically I'm not a member of Team Sony)
 
drboffa said:
It's tough for me to see in your pictures Grug but how are you routing things to get video out to both the Shogun 7 and the Gratical?
Click to expand...

The Shogun is fed from the camera's SDI port, the Gratical is fed from the SDI output on the Teradek TX (which is being fed a signal from the camera's HDMI port.


Doug Jensen said:
Huh, you better try it before you count on that. I don't care if the Kinotehnik only weighs as much as a feather, the LCD mounting system on the FX6 is so weak it can't even hold itself in place if you move the camera around. It is really a poor design. If Sony had an optional accessory viewfinder they were trying to upsell I'd say they made the mount crappy on purpose. But since they don't offer any kind of solution to the viewfinder problem, no matter how much you might be willing to pay, I have to chalk it up as incompetence by engineers who foolishly think professionals are going to run & gun with a freaking touch screen that can't even hold its own weight firmly in place. The viewfinder on the Z280 is excellent and wouldn't have added much to the cost.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I think I'm glad Sony put no effort into the FX6's viewfinder. Sony's own efforts with loupes have struck me as thoroughly underwhelming on the FS7 and FX9, and if doing nothing has allowed the FX6 to be cheaper overall, then that's money already back in my pocket to spend on a decent (and dedicated) mounting system/loupe.
 
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Andy9 said:
Mine is definitely not that loose. I'd say it's marginally stiffer than the LCD mount on the FS5 - so not great, but not the disaster you're describing either. And it's fine with the Kinotehnik on.

This is a youtube comment copied below so by all means treat with scepticism:

"Regarding the EVF mount. When I made a comment about it at the store in NYC where there’s a demo unit which has the same floppy EVF mount, I was told that this is the issue with the first batch of the cameras. Apparently they were actually recalled because of that and other issues. A video from an Australian YouTuber released today seems to confirm the recall of the certain batch of FX6’s."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ede1JQVbDjc
Click to expand...

Andy, thank you very much for this information. It sure sounds like my camera is part of that batch. I must say that it is actually a relief to find out that Sony hasn't released such a shitty product on purpose.
I have already reached out to Sony this morning about getting a replacement and I'll report back what happens.
 
Vik Kamenicky said:
Grug, isn't there a massive delay, when you are feeding the Gratical?
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Not that I'm seeing. I'm sure there's got to be another millisecond or two added in there - but compared to the slight delay you already see when plugged directly into the camera's SDI port, it isn't immediately apparent.

I've become pretty smitten with the sheer speed with which the camera boots up though, and although the Gratical does turn on pretty quickly, it's practically tardy by comparison to the camera. Also the OLED is problematic with the camera's data display due to burn in - so I've now put in an order for the Zacuto Z-finder for the FX6, and I'm probably going to use that as my primary monitoring device - so that I get full access to all of the speed the camera has to offer.

The image quality and peaking on the LCD are excellent anyway, so I won't be losing out on much there, and you gain a couple of extra function buttons that way too.

So I'll probably just carry the Gratical around as a backup, and just swap it in for anamorphic shoots when I need the desqueeze.
 
rob norton said:
3) nothing at all where the user figures out their EVF.
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EVF and power supply and wires and mounting arm and maybe a second battery charger in your kit*

The offbrand EVF is the begining of a route to needing a big rig. Not to mention touch AF if it is such a thing on sony. And lost ouptput ports.

Offbrand EVF could be a thing on a camera that has a 12v lemo and SDi out at the front (like some BM and panny?)


*unusually ive rigged to make everything work from BPU to minimise battery chargers.
 
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