F55: Sony PL lenses - kits?? RANT.

F

FilmDude

Well-known member
OK so I go to check out the sony site to see prices for the new sony pl primes...

they are selling a 3 lens kit that only has 20, 25, 135..... who the hell would buy that?????!

There seems to be only 2 options, get the full kit (which already includes those lenses) or buy the 3 lens kit which includes a completely odd and useless set of lenses...


What is wrong with these people?? Just sell the damn lenses individually and be done with it. I hate how greedy Sony is becoming by forcing you to buy lenses you dont want/need, or making kits with lenses that are useless.

THIS is why they won't be a good lens maker. Heck you can buy any major lens individually. Master primes, Cooke S4i, CP.2, CP.2 super speeds, Red Pro Primes, Ultra Primes, ect ect... And yet Sony thinks they are all so high and mighty that you MUST buy as a whole??

I'm sorry this is very ranty, but come on, you (Sony) as a company are NOBODYS when it comes to lenses. Let people buy 3 USEFULL lenses in a kit. give me a break.

UPDATED SO YOU DONT HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE THREAD TO GET THESE QUESTIONS -

1) Sony doesn't have a name when it comes to glass, so at those prices who would pick them over other known brands?

2) Sony doesn't seem to have an option for a smaller 3 lens kit thats "Usable" they just have odd lenses that can't be a usable kit

3) Sony wont sell them individually. Meaning if you buy 3 lenses, you can't buy that 4th or 5th one you want to add on later.

4) Sony is very secretive as to what glass is actually in their lenses, why? Wouldn't you think letting that be known would help them? Someone on this thread before hinted at the fact that they are Zeiss glass... if so, why not have the Carl name on them like so many other brands that use Zeiss glass? Wouldn't that help their potential clients be at ease knowing its not just some glass cobbled together from the deep dark dungeon of china or Japanese still lenses?

5) Sony seems to ditch the earlier version of the lenses, how do we know they wont abandon these new lenses if they dont meet a quota? And tied to that, if that odd 3 lens kit was really made to "finish off" the original Sony 35,50,80, then wouldn't what you just said defeat the whole "kit" if their are significant differences in the new lenses other than just housings, doesn't that mean these lens can't match? And that the mixing of the old lenses and new be a bastard set and not really proper?


Those are my main concerns/questions throughout this thread.
 
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That's Sony for you, completely out of touch with the needs of filmmakers. The lenses probably suck anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
 
maybe they are thinking people who bought the f3 kit with the 35mm, 50mm and 85mm would buy that set to complete focal lengths?
 
One of my comments to Sony, in fact, was the odd bundling. Or even why bundle at all.

I don't think it is fair to comment on the quality until we actually see them and compare to other glass.

Ned
 
nothing said:
That's Sony for you, completely out of touch with the needs of filmmakers. The lenses probably suck anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
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I'm sure the lenses probably don't suck. But people don't buy lenses, they buy reputations.

And this kind of thing doesn't help.
 
I'm not here to help Sony's reputation. Was there something else in need of help here? This is a "RANT" thread, after all.
 
Well if anyone needs a set of the old Sony primes to compliment the new 3 lens set, I've got a mint condition set for sale :)
 
This is odd. CVP in the UK are advertising the three lens kit as 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm, but the picture shows 20mm, 25mm and 135mm.
 
The impression I got was that you could buy the three-lens set as either a 'new' setup - ie, 35, 50, 85, or as cimplimentary to the current F3 primes you already own - so 20, 25, 135.

The optical quality is identical to the original F3 primes, but build quality has improved. Price for the three lenses seems to be somewhat more expensive than the price diffrence between F3 and F3+lenses, but I can't really remember initial F3 pricing.
 
jax_rox said:
Price for the three lenses seems to be somewhat more expensive than the price diffrence between F3 and F3+lenses, but I can't really remember initial F3 pricing.
Click to expand...

I don't recall seeing them sell the F3 three lens set separately.
 
There was about a 5K difference between the F3 with and without the lenses, but no lenses were sold separately. These new lenses are about double that per lens.
 
FilmDude said:
they are selling a 3 lens kit that only has 20, 25, 135..... who the hell would buy that?????!

There seems to be only 2 options, get the full kit (which already includes those lenses) or buy the 3 lens kit which includes a completely odd and useless set of lenses...

What is wrong with these people?? Just sell the damn lenses individually and be done with it. I hate how greedy Sony is becoming by forcing you to buy lenses you dont want/need, or making kits with lenses that are useless.

THIS is why they won't be a good lens maker. Heck you can buy any major lens individually. Master primes, Cooke S4i, CP.2, CP.2 super speeds, Red Pro Primes, Ultra Primes, ect ect... And yet Sony thinks they are all so high and mighty that you MUST buy as a whole??
Click to expand...

It will be curious to see how long these lenses are back ordered, and in short supply.

I would humbly suggest that Sony's reason for the current bundles and not offering singles is because they won't have a surplus, and to introduce the lenses to the marketplace they want to deliver as many full sets to market as possible. If they took orders now for singles they might sell so many 50mm and 85mm singles that they'd outstrip production and have long waits on full sets.

Perhaps in six months or a year we'll see singles for sale.

And by the way - "you can buy any major lens individually" is probably true - but you may be on a waiting list for over a year. When I made a direct inquiry to Arri for Ultra Primes, they offered to put me on a 13 month waiting list.

Let's try and be patient. The price for these lenses is incredibly low - cheaper than CP2 lenses, with a constant T2.0 across the set. If these were on the market last year, I would have had a very hard time justifying the expense of Ultra Primes as an Owner/Op.
 
Eh, Sony is not getting one red cent from me after all this. Specially since the roomer mill seems to be confirming that the lenses are in fact the SAME glass as the kit lenses from the F3... So you're telling me someones going to pay $13,000 + on NEW Sony lenses with odd range (20,24,135) to match a set of F3 plastic, pl lenses that were worth no more than around $1,600 each???

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. I'm sure some will do it, but really, is anyone here actually considering spending $13,000 on an odd set to fill out their much cheaper F3 lenses??? Thats a lot of money to spend just to keep the same quality of your most used lenses...

Sony stop locking people into things. Sell individually. The list is overwhelming on manufacturers that will sell lenses individually, I'll continue listing if need be... Heck even some new players to the market aren't doing that on all sides of the price spectrum, Rokinon, Leica, schneider, new canon pl lenses, ect...

all these manufactures that have a name in lenses are allowing you to pick and chose ANY lens you want to buy. On top of that most of their "sets" you can buy, for example you can select 3 lenses of your choice for ordering CP.2's (and many other manufacturers) you aren't dictated to what you can buy, you can choose the 3 lenses you want.

Basically every major lens you can buy individually or buy a 3 lens set of YOUR choice of lens focal lengths... But Sony... nope?

I dont see that being fair at all to the costumer, all or nothing is a real quick way to lose potential costumers. I dont need a 135mm lens, but I'm forced to buy it if I want to use sony glass?? give me a break.

I think having a weird set of F3 primes mixed with different body MUCH more expensive Sony primes is a hard sell, and on top of that, how the heck are those going to retain value as a set?? If you want to sell your prime set later on, how are you going to justify that being a "matching set" of lenses with completely different ergonomics, build quality, and price range? Thats a cobbled together lens set if you ask me. Sure anyone can do what the want with their money, but not allowing the willing to buy what they want is just stupid to me.

Sony sorry I was wanting to at the very least check out your lenses, but now that I see how you're going to handle business, I dont want any part... plus apparently I've already seen the quality of your "NEW" primes because they are the same as your old ones... if thats the case, I'll pass on spending my hard earned money on your re-branding. Not for me. For a company as big as Sony to pull that, it just bothers me, its bad politics and its bad business for the independent market, which is most likely the only market these lenses will sell to (considering I dont think we're going to see any big block buster Batman, Avengers, Prometheus, Jurassic Park, or other type movies to be selecting anything other than Panavision, Cooke, or Masterprimes anyway. I know ranty, but im speaking on behalf of not just me, talked to other DP's who feel the exact same way.
 
FilmDude - Did you even consider my points regarding wait lists and availability? Ultra Primes are available as singles - on a 13 month wait. Cooke is notorious for wait lists. Etc.
 
I did, but as I said the new comers have done it, and im pretty sure they have way less money than the Sony giant to be able to handle individual sales. You're saying waiting a few months for new lenses is not ok, but not being able to buy them at all is better??

I dont get that logic, just because I have to wait for GOOD glass doesn't mean I'm willing to spend WAY more money on lenses I dont need/want just to get them.

I understand the points, but also hear me out... Would I spend around $10K for a nice matching 3 lens set of glass thats quality built? Yes... Do I have that option from sony? No, so how am I to buy? They are alienating customers, not helping. I'd rather wait to get the 3 lenses I want, than not be able to afford an entire set of lenses, that half of the lengths I dont want. See what Im saying?

Not everyone buys sets with every length, some focal lengths I just wouldn't use and would be a waste of money for me, and I know most DP's like to chose their focal lengths, hence sellers usually offering choice of lenses. Some guys like to shoot wide, so maybe 20, 24, 35 is a good set for some... others like more telly like 35,50,85... or people like me who like one of each... 20, 35, 50... which covers everything major.

DP's have budgets, these lenses are not going to make a good rental choice considering how cheap CP.2's, Superspeeds, and even MP's go for these days rental wise... All I'm saying Is I'm pretty sure giving the customer what they want is more important than saying "F you" too them.

So I want 20, 35, 50 as a set, I could maybe swing the money for them (If I liked the quality) but do I even have that choice? nope. So they lost a potential customer right off the bat. Its basic business 101. If you build it, they will come. They dont have it, there for they can't sell it. Most are willing to wait for lenses, thats nothing new. A 12 month wait for a new set of lenses is something that happens all the time, so let people have the option, not giving them the option at all is just restricting and a loss for them.
 
I understand why you're frustrated, but I completely disagree with your assertions that Sony is making poor business decisions here. You can't please everyone all of the time. Sony's a giant company, but that doesn't mean they can necessarily make these lenses in substantial volume at this juncture. I work in industrial environments all the time, and there are a great many reasons why production capacity may be limited.

Let's run a hypothetical scenario. Let's say Sony has a production line in place, with sufficient workers and parts to make six lenses per day, one of each focal length. That means they can make as many as 365 sets per year (let's ignore holidays and weekends). Now, if they anticipate 500 orders in the first year, and have completed 100 sets of lenses prior to the initial release date, that means they'll sell 465 sets in the first year, with a backlog of 35 orders when they start year two. Works well for the manufacturer. Every unit made was sold.

Second variation - Same production line capacity. This time Sony takes single lens orders and full set orders on a first one in, first one out priority. They still get 500 full set orders placed, but also take singles orders for: 35/20mm, 45/25mm, 65/35mm, 250/50mm, 150/85mm, 75/135mm. Now, at the end of the year Sony might end up with as many as 205 25mm lenses sitting on the shelf, 185 35mm lenses on the shelf, and so forth. They'll also have filled less of the full set orders, and those customers will be complaining.

Is this an exaggeration? Sure. But my point is, giving one customer what they want may mean screwing a different customer.

You can't make everyone happy all of the time.
 
sounds like someone really had their heart set on a full set of sony primes.
 
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