Sony PL 35mm 50mm 85mm Glass DOF Compared on PMW-F3 Camera

Those lenses seem robust!
Not much point in comparing DOF, though - it's been argued thousand times that DOF doesn't depend on the focal length (for given framing). They probably meant the amount background blur...
 
Even though there has been some minor technical flaws in a few clips of F3 footage, I've liked all the footage I've seen.

I love the look of those Sony lenses, and they're reasonably priced but I can't afford them for awhile. I wish there was some footage with Nikon primes just for comparison.
 
That was painful to watch. No info what so ever, no lens comparison. one good lens shot, that's it. "We know what depth of field looks like" Please!
Waste of 5 min.
 
Last edited:
Just got back from a show and tell with the F3. The barrel on the those lenses are massive and up close they look very "cheap" and plastic. They also do not have any focus marks which I thought to be rather strange, they have the distances on the lens, but no marks. I did however get to see some footage projected and it looked really good. Handeld the highlights well, the roll off was great, not perfect, but really great. Amazing low light performance also. I don't know if all the demo footage was shot with Sony glass to the standard excam codec either but if it was then I am thoroughly impressed.
 
I was hoping to go the same show and tell today but ran out of time. Adam do you have any idea how heavy the lenses are? The camera body is 2.4kgs/5.4lbs. You mentioned the lenses looked cheap. Did they feel cheap? Finally did you have a look through the viewfinder?
 
Adam J McKay said:
Just got back from a show and tell with the F3. The barrel on the those lenses are massive and up close they look very "cheap" and plastic.
Click to expand...

I heard the lenses doing the rounds last month were prototypes and the production models will be much better.... but.... these may now be production models on show.
 
stockfuel said:
I heard the lenses doing the rounds last month were prototypes and the production models will be much better.... but.... these may now be production models on show.
Click to expand...

Another rumor...Great, I wish we could get some real info on these lens. How can we pre order anything without seeing any real info. Anyone go to the New York unveiling, and get some solid info?
 
I doubt they're gonna sell well. I mean... there are only three as of now. 35mm to 85mm just won't cut it for a prime set. Unless they expand the set (and before it is released)... I foresee people buying the camera and investing in CP.2's, older superspeeds, angeniuex optimo DP's, Fujinon Alura's (if you can take the size) or Cooke Panchro/i's. Thus far, the Sony lenses seem to lack a huge selling point which would make people purchase them. In fact, the only thing I've heard from anyone regarding a positive advantage over competition is the price. The price is actually the selling point... 2,300/pop. That's 7k for the three. If they make three more, that would be 14k for a solid 6-set. The issue, however, is that expanding the range might be an issue. Meaning, from my limited understanding of lens manufacturing, making a quality 18mm for $2300 is probably going to be more of a challenge.

http://www.fdtimes.com/news/sony/sony-pl-primes/


I won't say the lenses are great or horrible, I don't know. The price is right, but the range is not. They need more than 3 primes.
 
Last edited:
Joe Walker said:
Can you say which focal lengths are on the way?
Click to expand...

Giuseppe reported on the roadmap in the other thread.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...roup-meeting&p=2189107&viewfull=1#post2189107


For wide lenses Sony is planning on a 11-16mm F2.8 PL that is planned for April, a bunch of other zooms for the F3 mount over the next year. Currently there is already a fairly large selection of PL lenses on the market, Sony is probably thinking about what lenses make sense to build relative to what is already on the market and easily attainable.

I think the goal for Sony is to bring down the entry price of PL mounts so that they can be accessible to a larger amount of people. As S35 sized sensors become more common and affordable there needs to be real cinema lenses on the market that aren't cost prohibitive.

Either way there should be a ton of folks using dSLR lenses since they plan on having a short FFD F3 mount as well.
 
Steve Castle said:
Giuseppe reported on the roadmap in the other thread.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...roup-meeting&p=2189107&viewfull=1#post2189107


For wide lenses Sony is planning on a 11-16mm F2.8 PL that is planned for April, a bunch of other zooms for the F3 mount over the next year. Currently there is already a fairly large selection of PL lenses on the market, Sony is probably thinking about what lenses make sense to build relative to what is already on the market and easily attainable.

I think the goal for Sony is to bring down the entry price of PL mounts so that they can be accessible to a larger amount of people. As S35 sized sensors become more common and affordable there needs to be real cinema lenses on the market that aren't cost prohibitive.

Either way there should be a ton of folks using dSLR lenses since they plan on having a short FFD F3 mount as well.
Click to expand...

Sadly Giuseppe's report does not list any new PL primes. Yes there is a 11-16 F2.8 PL... which I am actually interested in seeing how it performs. Mainly because building a quality 11mm lens for a S35mm projection circle is a difficult task to do without distortion, barreling, and etc. The range isn't much, (11-16) but it will be the widest PL mount zoom I can think of. CXX Cooke is 14mm, Angeniuex Optimo is 15mm, Fujinon is 14.5mm, etc. Coincidentally (or is it?) it is tied with the photo-lens modded Duclos PL 11-16mm T/2.8 lens... same range, same stop.

As for primes, you made my point. There already exists very nice options for PL lenses. They may not be as cheap, but you can get an actual set that covers a greater range and will most likely be equal or greater quality. This is why I predict bad sales... Unless they release the other primes, or at least announce them, before the February launch time period, many people will look for zooms or prime lenses that are in complete sets.

The F3 mount lenses are an option, but PL's would be a better investment, as they can be resold or rented to anyone using a PL mount... not just the F3 or EX series cams. Unless Sony dominates the market, investing in F3 mount lenses is restrictive and not very good long term investment. Buying some good Ultra Primes, Cooke Panchro/i's, Angeniuex Optimo DP's, and likewise glass will surely cost more but probably ride the market for many more years. Look at superspeeds... about 30 years and going strong in the indie rental market. Cooke S4's were released in 1998... with new lenses still being made and sold. I can't think of one camera that has had a 12+ year production run. Cameras will continuously come and go, but good lenses will last for a long time. If filmmaking is your profession, investing in good lens set is essential. I can't speak as to the image quality of the Sony's, but a three lens set isn't ideal... you could always match them with other lenses, but what would that be? The likely hood of any other PL set being matched in quality, color, and price is really asking alot, plus if one did exist, ask yourself why not just go with them to begin with?
 
Last edited:
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Sadly Giuseppe's report does not list any new PL primes. Yes there is a 11-16 F2.8 PL... which I am actually interested in seeing how it performs. Mainly because building a quality 11mm lens for a S35mm projection circle is a difficult task to do without distortion, barreling, and etc. The range isn't much, (11-16) but it will be the widest PL mount zoom I can think of. CXX Cooke is 14mm, Angeniuex Optimo is 15mm, Fujinon is 14.5mm, etc. Coincidentally (or is it?) it is tied with the photo-lens modded Duclos PL 11-16mm T/2.8 lens... same range, same stop.

As for primes, you made my point. There already exists very nice options for PL lenses. They may not be as cheap, but you can get an actual set that covers a greater range and will most likely be equal or greater quality. This is why I predict bad sales... Unless they release the other primes, or at least announce them, before the February launch time period, many people will look for zooms or prime lenses that are in complete sets.

The F3 mount lenses are an option, but PL's would be a better investment, as they can be resold or rented to anyone using a PL mount... not just the F3 or EX series cams. Unless Sony dominates the market, investing in F3 mount lenses is restrictive and not very good long term investment. Buying some good Ultra Primes, Cooke Panchro/i's, Angeniuex Optimo DP's, and likewise glass will surely cost more but probably ride the market for many more years. Look at superspeeds... about 30 years and going strong in the indie rental market. Cooke S4's were released in 1998... with new lenses still being made and sold. I can't think of one camera that has had a 12+ year production run. Cameras will continuously come and go, but good lenses will last for a long time. If filmmaking is your profession, investing in good lens set is essential. I can't speak as to the image quality of the Sony's, but a three lens set isn't ideal... you could always match them with other lenses, but what would that be? The likely hood of any other PL set being matched in quality, color, and price is really asking alot, plus if one did exist, ask yourself why not just go with them to begin with?
Click to expand...

Personally, I think the Sony PL lenses will be a success. Price is the central motivator for demand of any product and these PL are a significant magnitude cheaper than other comparable PL primes. Based on what has been shown of these lenses, and Nigel's comparison with Cooke lenses, the image quality difference is negligible, and in some aspects seem to favor the Sony lenses. In reality, the IQ differences of lenses at this level is generally unnoticeable even against high-end dSLR glass.

The high cost of PL lenses in general are merely due to the low volume of lenses that are made. Again, as the more affordable S35 cameras start hitting the market the demand for cinema lenses are going to outstrip the supply. We have to expect that Panasonic, Canon, and maybe even JVC will also have S35 cameras in time. A lot of people that previously had no interest in these lenses will be entering the market. At the same time its unresonable to expect the F3 buyer to spend an additional $20k+ on lenses for a ~$13k camera.

As far as the F3 mount, the reason they decided on a short focal-flange distance (ffd) mount is obvious. The 52mm FFD of a PL is ill suited for zooms and large lenses. The market for an large and expensive PL cine zoom is small, if they can make it smaller, cheaper, and better by exploiting the short FFD of the F3 mount than they can create an affordable cine zooms lens (in addition to having the luxury of adding things like electronic servo zoom). If the F3 mount is anything like the EX3 mount than it means that the FFD is longer than both the E-mount and micro43rds mounts (18-20mm), this means that these zooms may also have a second life on other cameras via an adapter.
 
Steve Castle said:
Personally, I think the Sony PL lenses will be a success. Price is the central motivator for demand of any product and these PL are a significant magnitude cheaper than other comparable PL primes. Based on what has been shown of these lenses, and Nigel's comparison with Cooke lenses, the image quality difference is negligible, and in some aspects seem to favor the Sony lenses. In reality, the IQ differences of lenses at this level is generally unnoticeable even against high-end dSLR glass.

The high cost of PL lenses in general are merely due to the low volume of lenses that are made. Again, as the more affordable S35 cameras start hitting the market the demand for cinema lenses are going to outstrip the supply. We have to expect that Panasonic, Canon, and maybe even JVC will also have S35 cameras in time. A lot of people that previously had no interest in these lenses will be entering the market. At the same time its unresonable to expect the F3 buyer to spend an additional $20k+ on lenses for a ~$13k camera.

As far as the F3 mount, the reason they decided on a short focal-flange distance (ffd) mount is obvious. The 52mm FFD of a PL is ill suited for zooms and large lenses. The market for an large and expensive PL cine zoom is small, if they can make it smaller, cheaper, and better by exploiting the short FFD of the F3 mount than they can create an affordable cine zooms lens (in addition to having the luxury of adding things like electronic servo zoom). If the F3 mount is anything like the EX3 mount than it means that the FFD is longer than both the E-mount and micro43rds mounts (18-20mm), this means that these zooms may also have a second life on other cameras via an adapter.
Click to expand...

I am curious if you could point me to Nigel's cooke comparison. I'm a HUGE Cooke fan, and I'm interested in reading the details of his finding. I was assuming these entry level priced Sony lenses are more along the lines of RPP's as they seemed like rehoused still lenses and just as big!... I'd be very happy to read his review.

I am also not terribly familiar with the construction of zooms. Can you better explain the part including the advantages of a shorter FFD? Are you talking about how Angeniuex made the DP lenses with the longer back element, as digital cameras do not need a mechanical shutter? Not to prejudge the zooms, but if Giuseppe's info is accurate. I think many people aren't going to flock to zoom lenses that can't hold it's aperture through the focal length range. If they do, it's def going to be because of price, because that's not terribly good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top