FS5: Sony officially announces the FS5 Mark II

Atomos also dropped the ball on the Ninja V in my opinion. Why would you not have added at least 1-2 SDI ports? Say for small run and gun cameras like Sony FS5, Panasonic EVA, Canon C200 etc? The 7" Shogun Inferno is a total turd in ergonomics and its heavy and I am always swapping batteries. The Odyssey is nicer but is also not ergonomically fit for a small body. I would have pulled the trigger on any brand 4-5" mini recording monitor for apple pro-res Raw or even regular pro-res to use with my FS5. The concept of the Atomos mini SSD's are quite cute too haha. But seriously it would have taken those cameras back to what the camera was originally supposed to be (handheld run and gun) while still giving you the boosted IQ, 4k slow motion, etc that they are capable of. I would be much more content with my FS5 in this case. Similarly, sales for small handheld cinema cameras and Atomos combos probably would be off the charts. Dumb market move in my opinion especially if you want to move the remaining FS5 bodies you still have.
 
This all kind of reminds me when the original Canon C300 came out and everybody (well lots of people) said how good the skin tones were - even though it was just an 8-bit camera (remember, someone from Canon said "ah, but they are the right 8-bits!").

Then the C100 came out (still have mine - but rarely use it now) with it's weak codec and WDR picture profile. Still produces pretty good HD images with minimal fuss/fast turn-around.

I think Sony have taken note of this and have seen that they clearly cannot (or wish not to) compete in the specs race at the "entry level cinema camera" position. The Panasonic EVA1, GH5 (and even now the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera announced at NAB yesterday) have shown others can very easily out compete them in any specs/price wars...

So maybe their marketing and techie gurus are starting to think like Canon. They have (finally!) put the effort on improving image quality (especially skin tones) much higher up in their priorities and realise it is a very powerful selling tool, especially if their hardware offering is currently limited at this price point.

Time will tell if the FS5MkII does indeed produce lovely skin tones/highlight roll off in real world hands (the demo video is very promising) but it could be a strategy that works/buys them time until the next major sensor upgrade cycle kicks in.
 
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cannot (or wish not to) compete in the specs race at the "entry level cinema camera"

While Im a cinema nut I get and admire sony thin codecs.

In the 'real world' - maybe three cameras at a wedding rolling for maybe 15hours in total - codecs any fatter than sony are horrific

I think they have a head (ie wish not to) compete in the huge codec game.

Personally Id offer it and offer it as something one can switch off but I do have a grudging understanding of the thin codec game.

As for the right 8 bits, yep, if you allocate a lot of bits at skin level you can do good things.. I think this is what the 5d2 did out of the box and why it had some magic
 
I don't think the next FSxx series will be full frame. All current and quite new lenses are APS-C / S35. This size is well established and full frame will be the domain of a 50k± price tag. Just guessing.
 
andykwilkinson said:
This all kind of reminds me when the original Canon C300 came out and everybody (well lots of people) said how good the skin tones were - even though it was just an 8-bit camera (remember, someone from Canon said "ah, but they are the right 8-bits!").

Then the C100 came out (still have mine - but rarely use it now) with it's weak codec and WDR picture profile. Still produces pretty good HD images with minimal fuss/fast turn-around.

I think Sony have taken note of this and have seen that they clearly cannot (or wish not to) compete in the specs race at the "entry level cinema camera" position. The Panasonic EVA1, GH5 (and even now the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera announced at NAB yesterday) have shown others can very easily out compete them in any specs/price wars...

So maybe their marketing and techie gurus are starting to think like Canon. They have (finally!) put the effort on improving image quality (especially skin tones) much higher up in their priorities and realise it is a very powerful selling tool, especially if their hardware offering is currently limited at this price point.

Time will tell if the FS5MkII does indeed produce lovely skin tones/highlight roll off in real world hands (the demo video is very promising) but it could be a strategy that works/buys them time until the next major sensor upgrade cycle kicks in.
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Yep and I don't care what anyone says the proof is in the pudding.. I shot these with mk1 C100 with CP8 profile and for me they have quality of being taken as "stills". This is just a small curve adjust on premiere timeline.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...n-C100&p=1986602339&viewfull=1#post1986602339


Then I have the F55 with big bad boy AXS-R5 and W I D E color gamut! I can grade for hours and days on my big boy bad DaVinci suite with expensive hardware and flanders monitor and pull my hair out chasing skin tones and pulling qualifiers. :violin:

Sorry but Sony had it backwards for too long and finally woke up and smelled the coffee. I already told my dealer to put one aside for me the minute it comes in.

Also remember the FS5 is still 10-bit 422 in "HD" but the point is with an image that's 95% there 8-bit 420 is perfectly good enough.
 
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sleekmedia said:
Atomos also dropped the ball on the Ninja V in my opinion. Why would you not have added at least 1-2 SDI ports?
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One thing I missed originally, is that the Ninja V has a port for add-ons... maybe Atomos or a third party will release an SDI input for it eventually. Obviously not as elegant as if it was included,but could still be a better solution than the 7" recorders...
 
Clermond said:
I don't think the next FSxx series will be full frame. All current and quite new lenses are APS-C / S35.
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Except most recent Sony lenses are full frame. And has no OSS. Which is why I'd take IBIS and an A7III like AF before a better codec...

I don't see the FS5 as primary to be used with cinema glass... but it would excel at quick run'n'gun jobs with a stabilised body, great AF and the 24-70 GM on it... (S35 or FF doesn't matter)
 
starcentral said:
Yep and I don't care what anyone says the proof is in the pudding....Also remember the FS5 is still 10-bit 422 in 4K but the point is with an image that's 95% there 8-bit 420 is perfectly good enough.
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I think that's a typo. You meant that the FS5 is NOT 10-bit 422 in 4K, right? (it is of course in HD).
 
Ok, so in this video they actually say that they tweaked the sensor on the hardware side of things as well, that the new look is a combination of hardware and software. That should mean that also the raw would look a bit different as well, one would think?
https://youtu.be/Q7RDfR9WH2Q
 
dmitrizigany said:
Ok, so in this video they actually say that they tweaked the sensor on the hardware side of things as well, that the new look is a combination of hardware and software. That should mean that also the raw would look a bit different as well, one would think?
https://youtu.be/Q7RDfR9WH2Q
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It's a bit decieving but he does says "as a default profile". It's only the default profile that will have a venice-look option and you don't get this through to RAW because it's still using log.
 
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He does say that they 'tweaked the sensor', but it remains to be seen if that tweak is visible with the other profiles....
 
The interviewer also asks if it’s software or hardware and then he says it’s both... but, yeah, still a bit vague...

Guess I’m just looking for a reason this wasn’t just a firmware update... and if they actually tweaked the sensor on the hardware side... it surely must have some other effect other than a picture profile, no?
 
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In two other interviews Sony says the hardware is identical.

Also it would awfully weird if standard profile from both Mon and mkii didn't match (slog, cine)

But really, who knows.. I agree it was odd to release an mkii without hardware changes.
 
As idiotic as it sounds, it would almost seem that the mkii was just being used to market Sony's even newer and refined color science of Venice.
 
Such an odd move really. Why not just issue a firmware update for all of your existing FS5s? (and thereby avoid pissing of the vast masses of people who have recently invested in the original camera, and now look like they have outdated cameras, when there's really no difference between the two)
 
Grug said:
Such an odd move really. Why not just issue a firmware update for all of your existing FS5s? (and thereby avoid pissing of the vast masses of people who have recently invested in the original camera, and now look like they have outdated cameras, when there's really no difference between the two)
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They probably wanted to promote a ''new'' product at NAB in their FS5/Fs7 lineup so they can increase those FS5 sales. I also think it should've been a firmware update, but then they wouldn't have a wonderful ''new'' camera to sell ;) lol
 
Yes, very odd.

Now almost everyone is disappointed in the FS5II even though it marginally improves the camera at a cheaper price.

If they had just made the raw and high speed upgrades free for all users and for the ones who were pissed cause they just bought them, they’d get a new colour science as a bandaid and pretty much everyone would think it was a great thing!

And it should have simulated sales almost as much. Maybe even more as very few would be disappointed.

Really baffling move by Sony...
 
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