FS5: Sony officially announces the FS5 Mark II

Current FS5 owner here so I will throw out a few of my personal opinions... First off I think it is safe to say we are all SAFE and do not need to desperately liquidate our FS5 MKi and jump on board for the MKii. I commend Sony for preserving my wallet in that aspect!

However, cameras that do not undergo a significant hardware upgrade (i.e. addition of auto ND filter and locking mount like the FS7 MkII, etc.) should not be called a "newer" version if it is just software updating. I believe Sony should have offered the current FS5 MKi platform with all of the firmware upgrades current FS5 owners had to pay (i.e raw upgrade, hfr upgrade, etc.) at a reduced price or the same price with the addition of the new picture profiles to move and profit off of the remaining bodies they have sitting around. This instead would have been a better option than taking old bodies, installing the firmware, and painting a new logo on the camera which in turn really isn't any different than what I currently own except it depreciated the resale value of my device rather than preserving my investment further which is what you really want in our industry when you are paying the price of a used Honda civic for a camera body. It's simple, if Sony wanted to call it a MKii they should have put a locking mount on it like the FS7 MKii which would have made it much more stable for lenses like the 18-110 or the Fujinon MK's, etc., or any legit lens with follow focus and overall would have gave it a more robust feel and a more respected persona in the professional realm.

The second area where I really feel Sony dropped the ball is on its internal codecs. If you currently have the raw firmware upgrade and are shooting 12-bit raw out via SDI to an external recorder there is absolutely zero point to upgrade. Especially considering the recent addition of Apple Pro-Res Raw which is now 12-bit raw instead of 10-bit standard pro-res and should offer even more latitude in post production which in my opinion will totally outperform any baked in LUT Sony can give me from their Venice color science. With a little research on Youtube anyone call learn how to quickly grade S-Log 3 skintones to perfection in resolve with curves which is what any professional would use so the addition of this "venice color science" is gimicky to me and is a tactic to market the prosumer crowd. Sony needed to give 10-bit 4k 60p in camera it is that simple. I can't express how many times I just wished I could have gotten 10-bit 4k/60p or 10-bit 2k/120p in camera for those remote filming session where taking a full rig with rails, top handle, recorder, all in my cine-bag, etc. is just too much to bear solo for say shooting a sporting event / day-hike at 1400' elevation in the mountains which could be much more easily achieved with the standard FS5 platform without additional recorders. For Sony to get any current FS5 owner or even any small DLSR owner (i.e. GH5) to even consider upgrading you have to consider that the GH5 is half the size, half the weight, doesn't require any "gimicky" wires or recorders and for the entry level videographer or vlogger I don't think they will even look once at the FS5 platform until it can do 10-bit 4k/60p and 2k/120p in camera. It's even worse for those of us who are trying to bridge the gap between the professional image quality of FS7 but smaller run and gun bodies for solo work. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the A7Siii will hopefully bring at Photokina.

For now I will be keeping my FS5 mk1 and will be looking forward to getting to use Apple prores-raw.
 
It's not that bad. You do others a disservice to others making categorical statements like that.

The FS7 with the Sony 18-110mm is quite usable, quite quick and fairly accurate. Agreed not up to Canon DPAF for sure. On the other hand the 18-110 on the FS5 is the total opposite, sluggish, unresponsive and often misses the mark. it also performs hopelessly sluggishly on the FS700. How the three cameras can behave so differently with the same lens is beyond me. Well that's my experience with all three cams with the 18-110 and that's with with all cams running their latest respective firmware.
It seems like FS700 and FS5 share a very similar operating system (do you call it that in cameras?) while the FS7 has it's own (or more similar to F5/55?). Could explain the difference with the lens?

Ok, what I really meant was that the FS7 doesn't have face recognition, correct?

Seeing what they've done in regards of AF on the A7III - I would really really want that in a FS5 form factor...

The way I see the FS5 is that it's marketed for handheld work, and how they can release a mkII without in body stabilisation while at the same time having more or less stopeed releasing lenses with optical stabilisation, is beyond me. If it had ibis, it would be so great with the 24-70/2.8 GM lens...

Also because of the hand held nature of the camera, a more solid internal codec would be very beneficial as hanging a Shogun Inferno or 7Q on it defeats the purpose...
 
Current FS5 owner here so I will throw out a few of my personal opinions... First off I think it is safe to say we are all SAFE and do not need to desperately liquidate our FS5 MKi and jump on board for the MKii. I commend Sony for preserving my wallet in that aspect!

However, cameras that do not undergo a significant hardware upgrade (i.e. addition of auto ND filter and locking mount like the FS7 MkII, etc.) should not be called a "newer" version if it is just software updating. I believe Sony should have offered the current FS5 MKi platform with all of the firmware upgrades current FS5 owners had to pay (i.e raw upgrade, hfr upgrade, etc.) at a reduced price or the same price with the addition of the new picture profiles to move and profit off of the remaining bodies they have sitting around. This instead would have been a better option than taking old bodies, installing the firmware, and painting a new logo on the camera which in turn really isn't any different than what I currently own except it depreciated the resale value of my device rather than preserving my investment further which is what you really want in our industry when you are paying the price of a used Honda civic for a camera body. It's simple, if Sony wanted to call it a MKii they should have put a locking mount on it like the FS7 MKii which would have made it much more stable for lenses like the 18-110 or the Fujinon MK's, etc., or any legit lens with follow focus and overall would have gave it a more robust feel and a more respected persona in the professional realm.

Sony will be reducing the price of the license upgrades very soon and in May the mk1 will drop $500 in price. mk2's will start selling in June at today's mk1 price and at that point we might see even more discounts for mk1 camera and its various license upgrades. Its fair to say Sony will take as long as it needs to in order to deplete all fs5mk1 stock from its warehouses and through its dealers and then it will become discontinued.

About your issues with the specs on fs5, I know we all want more specs for our money but consider if Sony were to add 60p 4K 10-bit would you then be prepared to pay much more for the camera? Can't add all the extra processing and boards inside a camera and not pay for it. Sony placed the fs5 in quite a good spot with enough separation from the FS7.

Perhaps we'll see 4k 60p 10-bit in a mini FS7 or FS8 in the years to come.
 
It seems like FS700 and FS5 share a very similar operating system (do you call it that in cameras?) while the FS7 has it's own (or more similar to F5/55?). Could explain the difference with the lens?

Ok, what I really meant was that the FS7 doesn't have face recognition, correct?

Seeing what they've done in regards of AF on the A7III - I would really really want that in a FS5 form factor...

The way I see the FS5 is that it's marketed for handheld work, and how they can release a mkII without in body stabilisation while at the same time having more or less stopeed releasing lenses with optical stabilisation, is beyond me. If it had ibis, it would be so great with the 24-70/2.8 GM lens...

Also because of the hand held nature of the camera, a more solid internal codec would be very beneficial as hanging a Shogun Inferno or 7Q on it defeats the purpose...

Yeah, I currently have the FS700. I've been waiting for the update to the FS5. I'm looking for something
with the form factor of the FS5 but with the autofocus of the A6500. IBIS would be great as well as it's
a handheld camera. They could do one version (FS6) with the FS5 codecs and another version (FS6II)
with the FS7 codes and charge FS7 price on that one. I'd probably pay FS7II price for a FS5 form factor
camera with FS7 codecs plus the a6500 autofocus and IBIS. That would be an amazing camera.
But alas, I guess I'm going to be sticking with the FS700. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will
release a tiny recorder that records ProRes Raw. Hanging the unwieldy monitor/recorders off the FS700
is a PITA, but if there was a tiny version, I'd probably be pretty happy staying with the ancient FS700.
 
Yes, that’s my issue. Updating to the FS5 from FS700 - there’s just not quite enough ergonomically benefits to justify the expense for the same image quality (with 7Q). IBIS and much improved AF would sway that. A better internal codec so no external recorder was necessary would as well.

If I didn’t already have the FS700 the situation would be different, obviously.
 
Actually thinking of selling my FS700 + 7Q and getting the A7III + Ninja V until the FS-line has caught up in regards to ibis and AF...
 
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And the Ninja V is perfect for - wait for it - the Sony RX0, which outputs 4K in 10bit (really) 422.

In fact the GH5 (to get 10bit 422 4K 60P) and the RX0 are the only cameras I see that get a significant benefit, given that almost all other cameras output in 8bit (422) via HDMI. No great benefits from just improving on 420 and getting higher bitrates.
 
Is there a single hardware change to the FS5II?

I saw an interview that said no. This really confused me. The whole point was to update colour science to match Venice. What other camera in the Sony range has colour match to Venice? (serious question, Im ignorant on that). My thought though was couldn't this have been a firmware update to existing cameras? Only going on the one Sony rep interview I saw.
 
Yes, was thinking the same. Seems like all the changes could have been done via a firmware upgrade to the original FS5...

However in this video (at around 1:50) they ask if it will be hard to match with the old version, and he says that if you want really close match you should have two (of the same I guess).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkMmLjX8Za8

So they must have tweaked the way the sensor speaks with the rest of the camera in a deeper way than is possible via firmware upgrade? Then the question is: will this also effect the raw output?

He also says that they have done this new version based on user feedback. So... who the hell requested a black ND knob instead of better internal codecs? If you hadn't done that, maybe it would have got that intead! ;)
 
Is there a single hardware change to the FS5II?

Sony is officially saying "no" on record but personally I find it odd that they would release a mkii that in all practicality is just a software update. It's actually quite baffling and doesn't make any sense.

The mkii also has some additional picture profiles, for example it will feature some "dslr" type instant looks with higher contrast, punchier images ,etc..


I saw an interview that said no. This really confused me. The whole point was to update colour science to match Venice. What other camera in the Sony range has colour match to Venice? (serious question, Im ignorant on that). My thought though was couldn't this have been a firmware update to existing cameras? Only going on the one Sony rep interview I saw.

If definitely appears to be nothing more than a firmware update updating the set of picture profiles. Odd to have released it as an mkii camera - perhaps they made so many FS5's to get cost down that they will simply relabel the body, change the ND knob color, load new firmware all in effort to sell cameras. Only logical conclusion to be honest.

Once sony saturates FS5 sales I think Sony might release a "venice like" 3D LUT to apply to sgamut3.cine / slog3 footage to get "venice like" color etc.. I say this because many of the clips shot in the Lucent promo were shot in RAW which means it had to be recorded in log and graded after. Surely Sony would use the same "look" developed for them for Venice and now FS5 mkii on the footage where they could not otherwise "bake in" the look using internal codec and the new color picture profile. ;)


Yes, was thinking the same. Seems like all the changes could have been done via a firmware upgrade to the original FS5...

However in this video (at around 1:50) they ask if it will be hard to match with the old version, and he says that if you want really close match you should have two (of the same I guess).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkMmLjX8Za8

So they must have tweaked the way the sensor speaks with the rest of the camera in a deeper way than is possible via firmware upgrade? Then the question is: will this also effect the raw output

I also obsessively analyzed Claus's wording in this interview and thought the same thing, but after realized Clause flipped the question around and instead of answering if mkii can be matched to the original fs5, @ 2:05 he flips the scenario around and says "you can manually adjust your picture profiles in the original fs5" so he kind of botched the question.
 
THis is a very perplexing move by Sony. They are facing some pretty stiff competition from the EVA1 and C200 and all they do is update the color science and throw in two licenses for free, which is like getting a sales rebate? So, that's it for the FS5 for the next few years?

Adding internal 422 and a stronger mount to the FS5 would not have necessarily undercut the FS7II, which needs an update anyways. Who's still selling $10,000 cameras in 2018 that need a $2000 dongle to record RAW and Prores ?
 
Next generation Sony camera's FSXXX will be full frame, Venice color science, etc.. starts all over again. 8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit RAW etc..

Thing i've been trying to stress in the past, and even now with the announcement of mkii is that if the image coming out of the camera is 95% there it doesn't need to be 10-bit, 16-bit RAW, etc.. Imagine if you were to record 8-bit log or even rec709 from an ARRI camera or the F35 and then grade it. I have done this plenty. It only needs small contrast & saturation change whereas for current Sony color you're talking several days in surgery.

So I would easily take this gimmick Sony is pulling of a better image with highlight rendition, skin tone emphasis in 8-bit then shooting in 16-bit RAW and worrying about how I'm going to get there.

I'm actually excited about it.
 
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