Sony NEX-FS100 with Super 35mm CMOS image sensor

echo9 said:
I believe the Sony E and A mount lenses all have electronic control via camera. If you use other lenses I don't think you have electronic control unless the adapter somehow allows it.
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I mean through a port on the back, provided the lens has electronic control in camera. I am thinking about when I am using my crane or having someone pull focus while I am using a stabilizer. It is an important feature for me.
 
Rick Burnett said:
I mean through a port on the back, provided the lens has electronic control in camera. I am thinking about when I am using my crane or having someone pull focus while I am using a stabilizer. It is an important feature for me.
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I think there is a LANC control in the back... in one of the videos, it shows the reviewer hooking up the removable hand grip, and plugging it in in the back.
 
I didn't think ergonomics could get worse than a (original) EX1 but Sony proved us wrong. And how about stripping down the features and specs to a bare minimum... I've got the NX5 NXCAM and even that one has HD-SDI fully uncompressed 10bit output. So it's obviously a strategic decision to keep it very restricted in order not to lose out on F3 sales. Always hated that about Sony as they keep doing it on other camcorders too :(
Guess it's saving up for a F3 after all.
 
This is definitely a tempting camera, especially with that F3 sensor. Overall though, it seems like an complete ergonomics nightmare. The AF100 seems way more user friendly in terms of actually operating in real world shooting situations.

I am curious to see some comparisons between it and the AF100. If Sony's camera street prices about a thousand less than their $5800 MSRP, then I think it could be competitive with the AF100. If not, then I don't see most buyers opting to spend more money on Sony's camera just for the sensor. Only way is if the image quality from the Sony literally blows away the AF100's image quality.

youngindiefilms said:
I didn't think ergonomics could get worse than a (original) EX1 but Sony proved us wrong. And how about stripping down the features and specs to a bare minimum... I've got the NX5 NXCAM and even that one has HD-SDI fully uncompressed 10bit output. So it's obviously a strategic decision to keep it very restricted in order not to lose out on F3 sales. Always hated that about Sony as they keep doing it on other camcorders too :(
Guess it's saving up for a F3 after all.
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Yeah, I'm seriously befuddled as to why Sony didn't go with the NX5 style body for this new camera. Sure there would have been some tweaks to the NX5 design, but something similar would have been really nice instead of this weird box thing.

Either way though, if this thing is really plastic and cheapo feeling like the preview suggests, then I don't think a lot of serious shooters will trust it to hold up in the field.
 
youngindiefilms said:
I didn't think ergonomics could get worse than a (original) EX1 but Sony proved us wrong. And how about stripping down the features and specs to a bare minimum... I've got the NX5 NXCAM and even that one has HD-SDI fully uncompressed 10bit output. So it's obviously a strategic decision to keep it very restricted in order not to lose out on F3 sales. Always hated that about Sony as they keep doing it on other camcorders too :(
Guess it's saving up for a F3 after all.
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DUH? Winning!
Let's see, we just released the F3, now lets release the same camera at a third of the price. Really? Maybe Canon will release a T4i at $800 with solid state drives, shoots 4K with 444 color and can also heat up a cup of noodles? Just to shut up panny and sony and RED.
 
Everyone hold your breath. I'm just watching this... as posted above a few posts earlier...
http://vimeo.com/21372344

As I happen to own the NXCAM NX5, I can say the buttons look the very same size as on the FS100. And I have no trouble whatsoever operating the buttons. I don't see how you would need a ball pen to push the white balance button and I don't have tiny hands.
All of a sudden I'm a bit wary of that review of the other guy earlier, at least in terms of his comments about usability.
Will definitely try one once their out.
 
In the video though I can see and "hear" how plasticky and crappy those attachments are but I already see 3rd party companies (wink wink Zacuto) making some high quality attachments! And for what it is to me, a low budget camera for indie cinematography the form factor is just right, I love the ability to strip down the camera to barebones in order to shoot unnoticed in places where I can't get a permit.
 
Just purchased an AF100 a day ago and I'm not really worried. The AF100 dynamic range might be less than this one, but it's darn good and the AF100 seems better suited for me given all the accessories. This camera feels almost too small and as stated the ergonomics seem odd. The AF100 has the removable and study handle with all sorts of mounting options and such. Just seems like the build quality of the camera and toughness is there where this new one doesn't have it. Sony overall to me has always felt very plastic and fragile.

At least all the accessories I get for my AF100 are practically interchangeable with almost any camera (KiPro, mattebox, rail system, etc.) so it's really the AF100 alone I need to replace next time I get a camera.
 
Sony makes some tough cameras - but usually from their Cinealta line, not so much the nxcams.

Lots of things that this lacks that the the af100 is good for:

-sure you can add nd filters in the matt box, but it's really nice having the filter wheel AND the option to put in select grads and nds in the matt box for the stop you want.
-top handle on af100 very good for securing cables and fast setups.
-lack of hd-sdi, can't really string hdmi cables very far and hdmi cables aren't that flexible.

image quality may be good, but without usability, for me anyways, its better to go wid the af100 or ex1/ex3... at least for that price range. F3 for rentals.
 
Nice to see you guys writing this camera off for its bad ergonomics, without ever holding one.
With all due respect to Nigel, ergos for a camera are such a subjective thing. He says the controls are too small, someone here says they look identical to his NXCAM and are fully usable. Some people like the EX3 semi-shoulder design, I find it awkward. And on and on.
Nigel had a pre-production model. We'll see how the production models' fit and finish are.

Until then, sheesh... calm down. A hand full of reviews and some photos do not a camera make.
 
vanvideo said:
Nice to see you guys writing this camera off for its bad ergonomics, without ever holding one.
With all due respect to Nigel, ergos for a camera are such a subjective thing. He says the controls are too small, someone here says they look identical to his NXCAM and are fully usable. Some people like the EX3 semi-shoulder design, I find it awkward. And on and on.
Nigel had a pre-production model. We'll see how the production models' fit and finish are.

Until then, sheesh... calm down. A hand full of reviews and some photos do not a camera make.
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I definitely agree. I don't like the ergonomics of my AF100 personally, but that is because I don't like the cupped hand method of holding the camera. I am eagerly awaiting someone making some more interesting handles for the AF100 that work better for *ME* In addition. I place my smallHD on top of the AF100 directly on the handle and I find that I like that position a lot. Being 6'4" I need to get the camera lower more often anyways so a display on top makes WAY more sense to me. :) That is not to say either solution is perfect. They both lock me in to using their LCD on either the left side or the top and not anywhere I want. It's all subjective.
 
vanvideo said:
Nice to see you guys writing this camera off for its bad ergonomics, without ever holding one.
With all due respect to Nigel, ergos for a camera are such a subjective thing. He says the controls are too small, someone here says they look identical to his NXCAM and are fully usable. Some people like the EX3 semi-shoulder design, I find it awkward. And on and on.
Nigel had a pre-production model. We'll see how the production models' fit and finish are.

Until then, sheesh... calm down. A hand full of reviews and some photos do not a camera make.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not writing this camera off. In fact, I feel it has some nice qualities that make it different from something like the AF100.

I'll be happy to see more footage from Sony's new camera, as well as comparisons with the AF100 in a few months. I think people might be reacting to that negative early preview a bit more than to the camera itself. I know that soured my excitement a bit, but then again, the F-Stop Academy guy seemed to really like it. His enthusiasm definitely made me want to see more info and images about this camera. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it fares when it is released.
 
I'm not writing it off either. There are just too many unknowns to do that. There are a lot of things I really like about it. There are a lot of things I don't like about it. I can say that about EVERY camera I've ever considered purchasing :) I'm still excited by it.
 
To be clear I wasn't writing the camera off like it's useless, but I think for my uses the AF100 is better suited and as I said all the accessories I buy are likely usable on this new camera too so I could easily switch if I'm wrong. The camera is such a small piece of the puzzle now-a-days it seems.

My comments on Sony ergonomics were more general and opinion based. Just never been a fan of their shape and such. Didn't mean to throw stones...
 
TheDingo said:
I don't think Sony is too happy about Nigel Cooper's review of their FS100 ( Sony NEX-FS100E review by Nigel Cooper ), as I just noticed that links to his review on the DvInfo.net and the HdWarrior.co.uk websites have "magically" disappeared, when they were there earlier today.

I guess that the "containment" elves are hard at work... :-)
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Yes, funny that.

It makes me laugh these days how some of these so-called reviewers and experts say how great a product is before they have even had it in there hands.

I have integrity, unlike certain other people who simply sycophant every product that comes along because they are making money off the back of it via training DVDs, or free productsr etc. I personally have made a bit of money off the back of certain products in the past, but only products that I genuinely feel are up to a standard that I myself would be happy to use, and do use. At least I can sleep well at night knowing that I'm not blatantly lying to my readers by telling them how superb something is, when it is not.

I also suspect that because certain people where at the Focus Group way back when Sony where asking so-called professional cameramen and experts what features and form-factor they would like to see on a camcorder, they feel obliged to stand there and say how wonderful a product is, just because they spoke a few words at a Focus Group.

Personally, I don't care what name is on the side of a camcorder, I use everybody's camcorders; JVC, Sony, Panasonic, depends on the job in hand.

I do however expect a certain minimum amount of effort to be put into the build quality of a product that cost £5,000 and the FS100 falls well short in this department.

In a nutshell. If you want a camcorder that is relatively pleasing to use and won't frustrate the hell out of you and has decent build quality for the money, the AF100 should be your choice. If you want an extra 150 or so lines of resolution and a tad less aliasing that your client will never see anyway, go for the FS100, but just handle it with kid gloves and expect a certain amount of frustration due to it's ergonomics etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Sony products. I totally love certain camcorders. Just read my 15000 word review I did on the PDW-350 when Sony launched that 5 years ago; I got accused of being a sycophant and totally cheerleading my way through that review. But I was totally and genuinely enthusiastic about that camera. Also, my two favourite camcorders in the world right now, for different reasons are Panasonic's AF100 because of it's large sensor, depth-of-field control etc, and Sony's PMW-350 for it's superb all round performance and what it stands for as a complete package. Again, see my review on the latter, I totally love it and I think I even give it 5 out of 5 stars. But the new Sony FS100 is truly terrible on every level; except picture quality. I won't back down from this viewpoint.

There are a few people out there who would never say anything even slightly negative about a Sony camcorder because of their in-bed relationships with companies there are just too many fake reviews covered in icing sugar.

At the end of the day, my review was and is my personal opinion; as a lighting cameraman with no ties to any company. I've been a video producer for over 10 years and a photographer before that.

But one thing is for sure. When the FS100 does hit the streets, people will go and look at it and judge for themselves. I am not going to tell people that the FS100 is build like a 1978 Volvo, when it is so obviously not.
 
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Thanks for the review Nigel...let's just hope that the build quality will be better on the production models.
Did you get a chance to test with different gamma curves? Very curious if they're included on this camera.....Sony's 16 page brochure mentions very little actually.
 
pulpfiction007, I didn't get chance to do chart tests or shoot footage with all the gamma curves and other paint menu settings. I only had the camera for two days. I spent an hour going though the menu tweaking the edge detail and colours just to get a pleasing image from the camera; and it does produce a nice clean image with hardly any noticeable aliasing. In fact it is quite hard to see the aliasing on a chart, and charts are unforgiving. In the real world, aliasing is almost non-existant on the FS100.
 
John Caballero said:
It reminded me a lot of the latest version of that fairy tale camera named Scarlet!
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Too funny...Last week I happened to be reading a thread about the HMC150 from around the time it was going to be released....early 2008. More than a few people were saying " I'm going to wait for Scarlet...it's supposed to be coming soon" ...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................and now.................................................................................................we're .............................still......................................................................................................waiting...........................................
 
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