FS7: Sony FX9 v Canon C500 mkII

The Minis Ive used were all chunky cameras - vlock arri dovetail (teradeck anamorphics ect) certainly not for bad neck people - and wide which puts the mass further away from your core further destabilising your body.

Id certainly suggest a C500 on a 200mm arca plate and stock battery would be a wildly different experience.

an arca plate can be configured to provide the fore aft for a decent multi lenses should rig

arri plates are overengineered for modern cameras.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
The Minis Ive used were all chunky cameras - vlock arri dovetail (teradeck anamorphics ect) certainly not for bad neck people - and wide which puts the mass further away from your core further destabilising your body.

Id certainly suggest a C500 on a 200mm arca plate and stock battery would be a wildly different experience.

an arca plate can be configured to provide the fore aft for a decent multi lenses should rig

arri plates are overengineered for modern cameras.

S
Click to expand...

Nah, the Mini is really OK. It's not a DSLR but then again it's a real motion picture camera. Compared to a full sized Alexa is a great weight saving.
 
morgan_moore said:
The Minis Ive used were all chunky cameras - vlock arri dovetail (teradeck anamorphics ect) certainly not for bad neck people - and wide which puts the mass further away from your core further destabilising your body.

Id certainly suggest a C500 on a 200mm arca plate and stock battery would be a wildly different experience.

an arca plate can be configured to provide the fore aft for a decent multi lenses should rig

arri plates are overengineered for modern cameras.

S
Click to expand...

Most Mini rigs are ridiculous. Including the set they've released for the Mini LF. They add so much metal (and bulk) that differences between a Mini and regular Alexa start to become minimal.

But they can be rigged neatly with a bit of forethought. Smart top handles can handle most of your accessory mounting needs, and the Wooden Camera and Bright Tangerine 15mm LWS baseplates are as streamlined as they come, pair them with a simplified V-mount plate hanging off rear rods, and you can keep things very light.

Arca might probably suffice for the barebones, but with cinema glass, v-mount batteries, mattebox, follow focus, wireless video TX, timecode box, EVF, cinetape and monitor added... I wouldn't trust the narrower diameter. I use Arri dovetails for EVERYTHING. They're the only option that never budges. I tried smaller/lighter options in the past, but none of them ever worked out. The Arri dovetail though has never failed me.
 
Strattos
It is entirely based on ones use case which can be from a studio to a mountain. We have an op looking to save weight. I guess he is not working on doc not motion pictures where ones ac will place the cam on ones shoulder for the duration of the take and then remove it.
 
Grug, have you looked into support options like the Ergorig? Basically something to move the support of much of the weight from your shoulder/neck area down to your hips.
I have a feeling that if something like that had been available a few years ago it might have saved me a back surgery and months of recovery. (Since then I moved to the EVA1 and its light weight for doc and corp work)
 
I just spent 2 days using a C300 mkII on a shoot in Egypt. Good grief, I'd forgotton what a heap of ergonomic piss the C-series are. An absolute horror to handhold and to monitor outside in the sun. Rigging a C500 mkII to make it useable is going to take some careful thought.
 
Liam Hall said:
Rigging a C500 mkII to make it useable is going to take some careful thought.
Click to expand...

Not really?

Its a little cube (ish)

On the shoulder you would just get and EVF/Monitor Vlcok on the back, proceed as normal.
I could swap it out straight on my FS7 rig as I could the FX9

ONly consideration is how to poke the focus area (which I imagine is more horrid on the FX.
 
morgan_moore said:
On the shoulder you would just get and EVF/Monitor Vlcok on the back, proceed as normal.
I could swap it out straight on my FS7 rig as I could the FX9
Click to expand...

Well, those are accessories and rigging, right off the bat, that you don't need with the FX9.

The Canon VF is £3,800. The extension unit is £1299. Also, you'll need to rig the handle for shoulder use or you won't be able to change apurture on electronic lenses. It will quickly start totting up.
 
Well I take it as read that all of these cameras are entirely non functional without a rig :)

But you dont need the vlock thingy from canon or thier EVF
 
Liam Hall said:
Well, those are accessories and rigging, right off the bat, that you don't need with the FX9.
Click to expand...

I don't quite follow you there Liam. Out of the box both cameras are basically identical - each comes with a top handle, and a 4"-ish monitor with adjustable mounting hardware.

I think the Sony comes with a loupe for the monitor as-standard, is that what you're referring to?

With you there on the C300ii though - the way everything is built up around the handle is a nightmare unless you're monopodding or holding the camera body up in front of your face.
 
Grug said:
I don't quite follow you there Liam. Out of the box both cameras are basically identical - each comes with a top handle, and a 4"-ish monitor with adjustable mounting hardware.

I think the Sony comes with a loupe for the monitor as-standard, is that what you're referring to?

With you there on the C300ii though - the way everything is built up around the handle is a nightmare unless you're monopodding or holding the camera body up in front of your face.
Click to expand...

But out the box the fx9 is longer than it its taller.. very basic for video camera design esp hand held.. the C300 series is shaped like a kettle.. and the c500II is still taller than it is long..
 
Exactly Donny. Shooting with the C300 mkII this week, I was fine indoors on a tripod, but take it outside in the sun or try to handhold it and it's an ergonmic mess. The LCD screen is unusable in the sun and having the VF at the back is ridiculous - it means you have to hold the rig out in front of you. I can handhold an FS7 in variety of ways, cradle it in my arms, put it on my shoulder. Sure, this is nohing some thoughtful rigging won't cure, but it is an extra cost compared to the FX9. I had been leaning towards the C500 mkII, but now having a very hard think. You'll definitely need to add a decent VF or a high brightness monitor to C500 mkII. Ultimately, it will come down to cost v quality. Hmm...
 
I’m also trying to decide between the c500ii and the FX9.

Agree about the ergonomics of the C300ii – dreadful. I had mine for about 6 months and couldn’t stand using the thing anymore. Sold it and bought the FS7. I also didn’t like the C300ii colours SOB, unlike most people, and I’m much happier with the FS7 colours after a quick tweak in Resolve, which is part of my workflow normally so no problem.

As Liam says, it will be the usual balance between cost v quality, and ergonomics considering what you’ll be shooting. Most of my stuff is doc and corporate so I’m coming from a biased starting point, in favour of the FX9. I can’t see me justifying the cost of the extras to get the Canon working how I want but I’ll certainly be giving it a close look, just in case. There’s no substitute for a hands-on.
 
I cant see really why one would want an FX9 over the C500.

Uses..

Minimal Build.
C500.
Having used the C200.. one can use it in the sun using the surprisingly good rear EVF and side-handle
Here shortness is a good thing.
FS7
With or no chimney pot on the EVF the FS7 is pretty horrid in this build and with no chimney one cant see in the sun.

Shoulder build.
C500 - you can buy a proper EVF powered by the camera, you can shoot raw
FS7 The EVF is all wrong as the wire is too short - you have to get a different EVF and power it if you want that camera on the shoulder and add bit to shoot raw

Cine build
Equal - C500 will be neater if you shoot raw

Movi Pro
C500 is a bit big but has raw onboard
FS9 - with the raw 'solution' you wont get it on a movi


---

How do the compressed codecs compete?
 
Donny 123 said:
But out the box the fx9 is longer than it its taller.. very basic for video camera design esp hand held.. the C300 series is shaped like a kettle.. and the c500II is still taller than it is long..
Click to expand...

The Canon is 20mm longer than it is tall. And it's only 5.5mm taller than the Sony - that's nothing. Pop a v-mount plate and battery on the back of it, and you'll be at a perfectly neat and tidy length to pop it on your shoulder:

C500ii
168mm Long x 153mm Wide x 148mm High @ 1.7kg

FX9
229.1mm Long x 146.1mm Wide x 142.5mm High @ 2kg

Liam Hall said:
Exactly Donny. Shooting with the C300 mkII this week, I was fine indoors on a tripod, but take it outside in the sun or try to handhold it and it's an ergonmic mess. The LCD screen is unusable in the sun and having the VF at the back is ridiculous - it means you have to hold the rig out in front of you. I can handhold an FS7 in variety of ways, cradle it in my arms, put it on my shoulder. Sure, this is nohing some thoughtful rigging won't cure, but it is an extra cost compared to the FX9. I had been leaning towards the C500 mkII, but now having a very hard think. You'll definitely need to add a decent VF or a high brightness monitor to C500 mkII. Ultimately, it will come down to cost v quality. Hmm...
Click to expand...

The simplest (and cheapest) option would be to just put the Zacuto loupe on the Canon's onboard monitor. Lots of people are doing that with the C200 apparently and it sounds like it works very well. That'd give you matching functionality to the FX9's loupe setup for shooting outdoors (with the added ability to just use the monitor as a monitor when you're indoors).

So I don't see there being MORE of a reason to purchase an additional EVF for the Canon than there is for the Sony. They both seem pretty equivalent on that front.

And if you do decide you need a dedicated EVF for either camera, as Sam mentioned, at least the Canon gives you the option of a dedicated solution with a single cable for power and video. You certainly pay a premium for it, but there are good third party options at significantly lower prices.
 
So I don't see there being MORE of a reason to purchase an additional EVF for the Canon than there is for the Sony. They both seem pretty equivalent on that front.

The wire on the FS7 (9) is to short for the EVF to be any use at all on the shoulder.

THe Sony is the one you have to buy and EVF for.
 
All good comments Sam and Grug. I've spent the morning costing up what I'd need to buy to get the C500 like I'd want it and it's not so bad on reflection. A 2000 nit monitor would be a possible option too.
 
stewhem said:
IMost of my stuff is doc and corporate so I’m coming from a biased starting point, in favour of the FX9. I can’t see me justifying the cost of the extras to get the Canon working how I want but I’ll certainly be giving it a close look, just in case. There’s no substitute for a hands-on.
Click to expand...

Same here. I've got hands on with both cameras in the next couple of weeks, then I'll decide.
 
Liam Hall said:
The [C300 Mark II] LCD screen is unusable in the sun
Click to expand...
Have you tried turning the Luminance setting to +2? I find it's perfectly useable outdoors with luminance at +2 and believe that anyone who considers the C300 and C200 monitor unusable outdoors is just not aware of that brightness setting. I also have SmallHD 702 High Bright monitors and don't feel the need to use them as the C300 and C200 monitors are good enough for me in most cases, including bright sunlight. I also had bought hoods for my C300 Mark IIs as well as a Zacuto Z-finder and never use either because they're unnecessary since the monitor is bright enough. Never meaning I used to use them some but these days don't even pack them in my bags.

The Z-finder does provide eye relief since your eyes focus at infinity instead of at just a few inches from the face, which helps for long duration shoulder mounted shoots. As Grug stated, the C500 Mark II with a Zacuto makes it basically the same as the FX9 with it's monitor and loop, with the C500 having the added benefit of non-third party camera powered and cabled viewfinders being available if wanted. One downside to the Zacuto loup though is that it's more difficult to take on and off, while I believe the FX9's flip up and down with ease. Also, the C500 Mark II monitor is slightly larger than the C200 and C300 monitor, so it remains to be seen if Zacuto or anyone will have a loup available at the time of shipping.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top