F55: Sony F55 vs Canon C700 impressions

starcentral

starcentral

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sony-f55-canon-c700.jpg


I haven’t got my actual hands on the new C700 recently announced by Canon but I have reviewed the initial specs and features of the camera, and since I’ve been getting asked a lot for my feedback or comments on the camera I thought I would share some initial thoughts and impressions, particularly in relation to the Sony F55 which I’ve now owned for 3.5 years since it was first released in March 2013.

First, I am no stranger to operating and DP’ing jobs with Canon DSLR’s and C series cameras. I’ve shot everything from live concerts and music videos to PSA’s, product commercial spots, and even worked as stills photographer for high end product shots in studio environments all with Canon products and lenses.

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Frame from video shot on C100 with Canon f2.8 80-200mm lens


Off the bat there’s no question the C700 certainly delivers. Priced at around $34k USD ($28k for body and $6k for OLED VF) and $2k more for the global shutter version, this camera is designed to be an “A” camera and workhorse on everything from feature films, broadcast TV, sports, documentaries and surely more.

The camera is capable of recording 4K and features a 4.5K CMOS sensor with a global shutter version. The dynamic range is 15 stops for the non global shutter version, and 14 stops for the GS version. Somewhat surprisingly the camera offers an internal ProRes codec capable of recording in 4K resolution in 10-bit ProRes 422 HQ (unlike the Sony F5/F55 which with an extra $1000 board offers ProRes but is limited to recording only in High Definition resolution). Note however – the 4K ProRes codec on the C700 is only available up to 30fps but does offer higher frame rates in 2K regular and 2K cropped mode. (looks like maybe no pixel binning which Sony implemented for frame rates above 60p)

The Canon C700 will also be RAW capable using an external recorder providing up to 120fps in 12-bit 4K RAW. The F55 features 16-bit RAW using the AXS-R5 recorder and with the newer AXS-R7 recorder can record 16-bit 4K RAW in up to 120fps, and 2K RAW in up to 240fps.

I haven’t read anything about 3D LUT loading capability on the C700 yet but I suspect that even if it does not support user loadable 3D LUTs like on the F55, it will have a “View Assist” option same as is found on the C100 and C300 cameras. This let’s you view the image “normalized” in the viewfinder when recording C-Log to the media.

As Canon did on previous models there will be both an EF and PL mount version of the camera and apparently Canon will switch mounts if needed through their service centers and even allow the sensor block to be upgraded to global shutter if desired. Now that’s service!

I haven’t seen any images from the C700 yet (this pointed out to me after I wrote this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrxNy8cQjIA) but in normal Canon tradition, I’m expecting very clean image at high ISO’s around 6400 ISO and possibly even higher thanks for their advances in image processing and reaching extraordinary signal-to-noise ratios. Many of us including myself love the image from Canon camera’s and Canon glass, so the images from the C700 will surely not disappoint.

We’ll see some other neat things that will likely pull the camera slightly ahead of it’s competition; from IP based streaming support to dual pixel CMOS AF offering quick and fast auto focusing capabilities. It’s hard to say what other features may be included by the time the camera starts shipping, or what current specs may even change or improve by then.

In closing although Canon is always late to the party when releasing a new camera with features that have been out for a while, the C700 will no doubt eat into future sales of Sony F5 and F55 cameras. The only thing that would help further propel the C700 into the market is a slightly better price. Currently it sits very close with the F55 in terms of price.

Cine-52-1024x683.jpg

Canon C700 with RAW module and v-mount battery

I will be getting access to a C700 on the horizon for testing, so plan to do some side by side comparisons and further tests in the near future!

Cheers,
 
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A bit off point.. but look at the top picture of your post.. the Sony looks like a sexy camera.. the C700 ..with that long form (funny they went from one extreme to the other) and odd rounded front design.. it looks like a cassette recorder from the 80,s...
It might sound like BS.. but to me.. if Im shelling out $40K or so.. it just has to be an object that I like how it looks.. like a car or a house.. I honestly couldn't have a camera that looked like that..
 
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I'll certainly be interested to hear about the comparison when you do it Dennis. The two cameras seem extremely similar on most fronts. Will be good to know if the Canon has managed to wrangle up any obvious operational improvements.
 
I don't find the C700 remotely interesting coming so late to the party in an already crowded (and filled) market segment. It's surely not going to interest F5/F55 owners who've long paid off their cameras and are well into profit on them.

I'd be waiting for Sony's next tranche of cameras that will be an advancement rather than buy into this Me Too exercise by Canon. This would have been very interesting 3 years ago.
 
It's a bit odd to review a camera you've not used but in truth absolutely everything about the camera appears to be great except the price.


It's clearly a rental camera as opposed to an owner/operator one and everything I've heard is that it is a joy to work with for cine and documentary setups.

Image quality is lovely too.


BTS

 
Looks great - thanks for sharing. Watching the bts and with so many gear and manpower I think it would have looked great too with a Alexa mini, a F55, a what ever RED.. just my 2cts as a newbie compared to these experienced cinematographers
 
Codex Recorder CDX-36150 $7000

Codex Capture Drive Dock includes Codex Production Suite $5750

Codex Capture Drive 2.0 [1TB] CDX-37018 $5350

Codex Capture Drive 2.0 [2TB] CDX-37020 $6950

1TB records up to 50 minutes 4K RAW at 24fps

C700 has same sensor architecture as c300II, tests here shows C300II does not really has 15stops of DR, it has simular DR to FS7:
https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-c300-mark-ii-review-dynamic-range/
 
But how is it any better designed than an F55/or an Arri.. for example .. the side LCD with hot buttons.. is a copy of the Arri,then copied by Sony.. that selector button being bottom right doesn't look a good place to me.. that will be useless for looking at menu,s in the VF.. Rec button is too low down on the body.. and guaranteed to be bumped by the look of it..
Im sure it looks good.. any camera in that price range should.. (the Canon made video in Japan .. recorded internally and shot with a small crew ..looks nothing like this one of course).. also recorded to some external codec box.. sure it proves this camera .. with a very good DP .. a huge crew.. shooting at the best time of da...to an external recorder..with alot of post work.. is going to look amazing ..
 
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The size/ratio is off a bit in the top image I posted, mainly because I made it using images off google and had no size references at the time. But the measurements for body only as listed on BHPhotoVideo are:

Sony F55: 7.13" x 7.88" x 12.25"
Canon C700: 6.6" x 6.1" x 12.9"

This puts the C700 only about 3/4" of an inch longer than the F55. Still I agree the body looks long for some reason and form looks like something from Blackmagic design.

The RAW solution for the C700 was something I also heard was going to be quite expensive. Thanks Anatusa for posting those specs and prices, a Sony RAW solution is $5350 for AXS-R5, $1800 for 512GB media, $500 for USB AXS card reader. ($6700 for newer AXS-R7 and R7 A-series media costs quite a bit more).

Something else I just learned is that the global shutter version of the C700 will not offer dual pixel cmos AF.

I agree no body is going to ditch their Sony setup for the C700, but I think there might be some wildlife and maybe sports guys that the C700 might be better suited too.

I didn't mention the internal servo motorized dual ND filters which are pretty cool. By using them in different combinations you can get a wide degree of ND filter strengths.

Screen%20Shot%202016-11-10%20at%208.32.21%20AM_zpsjmhvrblz.png


This is kind of a neat add-on as well, it solves the issue of industry professionals arguing amongst themselves which side of the camera the controls should be on. With Sony you can control the camera via wi-fi dongle on any phone web browser, which could be held remotely or mounted on camera if desired. I've used the wi-fi remote function on the F55 plenty of times and it can be very convenient and practical for use even though I admit at first I thought it was some type of wild and crazy gimmick.

c700_4_ou_700_zpsc0wqvos7.jpg
 
The body doesn't look sexy or iconic.

Much better with a big lens and a huge mattebox, enormous rigs, and a nice base-plate. A real challenge for third party companies to add all kind of stuff like that.

c700.jpg

And of course with lots of nicely colored cables.

canon_c700_2.jpg
 
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starcentral said:
The size/ratio is off a bit in the top image I posted, mainly because I made it using images off google and had no size references at the time. But the measurements for body only as listed on BHPhotoVideo are:

Sony F55: 7.13" x 7.88" x 12.25"
Canon C700: 6.6" x 6.1" x 12.9"

This puts the C700 only about 3/4" of an inch longer than the F55. Still I agree the body looks long for some reason and form looks like something from Blackmagic design.
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Those figures on B&H are probably not accurate.

These are the dimensions from Sony and Canon's official sites:
F55:
130 x 125 x 191 mm (without protrusions)
5 1/8 x 5 x 7 5/8 inches (without protrusions)
C700:
Approx. 6.6 x 6.1 x 12.9 in
(167 x 154 x 327mm)
 
Yeah I agree.

I just took a tape measure to my F55, and the body length is 6-3/4" long without any back mounted. (You can power the camera without the back via 4-pin XLR). And with the v-mount back the overall length goes to 7.5". I have the R5 back but I'm too lazy to go get it and measure it. The height is 4-7/8".

I am not including the lens mount protrusion or handle in my measurements.
 
Donny 123 said:
But how is it any better designed than an F55/or an Arri.. for example .. the side LCD with hot buttons.. is a copy of the Arri,then copied by Sony.. that selector button being bottom right doesn't look a good place to me.. that will be useless for looking at menu,s in the VF.. Rec button is too low down on the body.. and guaranteed to be bumped by the look of it..
Im sure it looks good.. any camera in that price range should.. (the Canon made video in Japan .. recorded internally and shot with a small crew ..looks nothing like this one of course).. also recorded to some external codec box.. sure it proves this camera .. with a very good DP .. a huge crew.. shooting at the best time of da...to an external recorder..with alot of post work.. is going to look amazing ..
Click to expand...

Pretty much every UI in the world is better than a Sony one. What does it matter who copied who?

Again to reiterate I don't see this as an owner camera at all. But I'd like to rent it on my next larger shoot.
 
For those of you who have not played with the C700, the wireless capability is decent. You need to purchase the same little Wi-Fi add-on dongle (they should have built it in really!) that is used by the C300 MKII for about $500.00 but the Canon reps told me they are bringing out a better one for the C700 that has longer range and is more responsive. What's nice it it is URL based so no special app or device needed, just punch the URL into any web capable device and instant contol over almost all basic operational parameters from your phone, iPad, etc. My complaints about the build are that the shoulder pad is uncomfortable (I am sure Wooden or Zacuto can remedy that) and you are correct, to me, if you want to shoot RAW, buying into the Codex workflow, even for a rental, is big money. Codex is bulletproof and proven but really expensive. CD has said that they are not sure if they will devote the resources to be able to record C700 RAW with their recorders and no word from Atomos so for the foreseeable future, it will be Codex only. Doesn't matter for me, I personally feel that the RAW workflow is unnecessary for 99% of projects, Prores is good enough for GOT, good enough for anyone.

Oh and one other great revelation, the audio XLRs are now built into the body, not on a stupid handle or add on box. Love that. I really hope Canon stays with the long box form factor for the C100 MKIII, the C300 MKIII, etc. moving forward. I love my C100 and the C300 MKII, but the super tall form factor is pretty dorky and inconvenient for some of my shooting. The C700 impressed me, it's a great camera. Although I would have a hard time picking one up in place of an Amira or an Alexa Mini if I had that kind of money to buy a camera. But for me, the Canon would win out simply because of DPAF, that feature is incredibly important to my work shooting BTS, documentary and run and gun. If I had ACs or better eyesight, Arri all of the way for me, but with me having to take care of focus, DPAF just works and makes my footage better and my life easier. I use it on my 80D in my Zhiyun Crane, my C100 and when I shoot with the C300 MKII, it is so helpful and useful. Like most of you, the C700 will be a good rental camera for me.
 
^ Great feedback based on actual use.

I think the C700 will be a very popular rental item over the F5/F55 but with the FS7 who's renting a F5/F55 these days? For this reason, I actually see the FS7 competing with the C700 and at a ridiculously low price compared to the Canon I'd be hard pressed to imagine who's going to spend double the amount to shoot C700 for 4K over the FS7.

This is going to be interesting.
 
Donny 123 said:
A bit off point.. but look at the top picture of your post.. the Sony looks like a sexy camera.. the C700 ..with that long form (funny they went from one extreme to the other) and odd rounded front design.. it looks like a cassette recorder from the 80,s...
It might sound like BS.. but to me.. if Im shelling out $40K or so.. it just has to be an object that I like how it looks.. like a car or a house.. I honestly couldn't have a camera that looked like that..
Click to expand...
Really?......it's not a house or a car. I think if you actually had it in your hands and used it, the look you object to would be a non issue.
 
Jim, I like that he hit on ARRI about not having 4K yet... I have to say how ridiculous of ARRI it is and what a way to lose out on a market. Still can't believe that one for where we are approaching 2017.

ie. Variety announced Netflix is spending $6 billion on production. Will ARRI see any of it with their fake 4K camera?
 
starcentral said:
... ie. Variety announced Netflix is spending $6 billion on production. Will ARRI see any of it with their fake 4K camera?
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It depends on how many of their Alexa65's are out there.

A year ago, as Jim Martin had mentioned a while back, there were about forty out in the wild and they were all spoken for far in advance. I would think that, for the 2017-18, there'd be a sufficient number or that ARRI will premiere a "reasonably priced" 4K camera around the NAB'17 (which has been rumored anyway).

Of course, as someone had pointed out on the C700 thread, it's 3.8K for UHD vs. 3.4K for the "open gate" Alexa.
 
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