F3: Sony F3 Resurrection - The New Chapter

starcentral said:
If you use Sony Vegas, or want to try it, it supports ACES workflow for Sony slog that is quite good to use.
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Missed this first time around. Sony Slog-1 is ACES qualified? I have never seen this stated before or seen it in any app that uses ACES as a color reference standard.

I seem to recall Dennis, you have or have used, Sony Catalyst EDIT. Do you know if ACES is supported in Catalyst EDIT and if Slog1 is implemented through ACES as well?
 
This is significant Dennis. The F3/F35 is finally getting from Sony the attention it should have got three years ago or maybe 2 in terms of ACES qualification. Hopefully we will see this trickle down into other apps that use the ACES reference standard: Resolve, PP, Avid, Scratch and others.

I'm convinced in two years, the industry will look back and wonder how we coped without ACES, a color reference standard.
 
Just picked mine up and so far have shot a few weddings and corporate interviews with it using the cinegamma's and R709 PP. Starting to mess around with Slog and learning to expose for it, keep thinking im underexposing with this camera when I'm not. Just started a personal project for a friends band thats recording some singles so perfect time to play around with slog. having to push the camera to 6400 ISO and while thats not the best choice the grain is no where as bad as I'm use to working with on some cameras, and im only shooting internally right now.
 
Not sure if you're aware but one great exposure tool on the F3 is the "brightness display" which gives you a IRE read out of the center marker in the middle of the screen. It's pretty handy especially when shooting slog.

Also here's a nice PDF I put together with the placement of middle grey for the various cinegammas. This can be handy to keep on your phone for easy reference: http://www.starcentral.ca/forums/Sony PMW.pdf
 
starcentral said:
Not sure if you're aware but one great exposure tool on the F3 is the "brightness display" which gives you a IRE read out of the center marker in the middle of the screen. It's pretty handy especially when shooting slog.

Also here's a nice PDF I put together with the placement of middle grey for the various cinegammas. This can be handy to keep on your phone for easy reference: http://www.starcentral.ca/forums/Sony PMW.pdf
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Yeah that tool has been a life saver since I am holding off on getting an external recorder to save up for the Atomos Samurai blade with waveforms (haven't had a job that requires 10 bit yet but I may use it on a music video shoot in december)

Didn't know about the best IRE values for the cinegammas though so that will be great.
 
So, basically if we have an IDT for the F3 (slog1) we should be able to get the footage to properly work in not only Vegas, but also something like Resolve?

Here are the AMPAS ACES IDT files

https://github.com/ampas/aces-dev/tree/v1.0/transforms/ctl/idt/vendorSupplied/sony


Does anyone know where we can find the ACES RRT mentioned in the white paper or are these only bundled and supported by VEGAS? Do the RRT also work in something like Resolve or NUKE?

thx
 
The RRT normally comes with the application if it supports ACES, you shouldn't need to add one for something like Rec709 that is a common standard. In Resolve it is called an ODT and is in the project settings color page where the luts are. So far I have used this method below in Resolve for the f35 but I am curious to try these IDT's from sony instead of the lut in the link.
http://www.filmscientist.com/blog/2015/01/29/film-scientist-aces-workflow-revisited/

Nuke calls them RRT and they are available once you switch to ACES in the OCIO tab in the project settings. You have to switch the viewer processes LUT's to OCIO and the OCIO config to aces. the IDT's in nuke are handled via the OCIO colorpace node I believe. If I recall correctly you check the raw data option in the read node and use the OCIO colorspace node to set the IDT, Nuke has an IDT for the f35 and f65 by default. I am not sure how to install an IDT for nuke but I image that info is out there.
 
It looks like a nice starting point, but you really need to be careful that your middle grey hit's 38% in the brightness display IRE of your F3. If that is off everything else will be too. So as long as your able to get a card into your shot and are working in a controlled environment everything should be fine.
The greater benefit remains of course the Neat Video application of a denoiser in Resolve.
 
Ressurrecting an old thread. Using ACES in Resolve breath's new life into this camera. Ability to use everything the sensor gives you and incredible image quality right away.
 

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So good!

Looks fantastic! I’ve been thinking F3’s would make the perfect multicam for low budgets these days. Fully featured, and as you are proving, and Charles and Grug have proven, great image quality.
 
Gizmosgadget said:
How do you record 4:4:4 ouput to an external recorder? Do you you need to use both SDI outputs?
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No, with the RGB444 upgrade you can enable 3G-SDI out of the SDI A port, which allows for 4:4:4 up to 30fps or 4:2:2 up to 60fps over a single cable. The tricky thing is finding a recorder that supports 4:4:4 recording. Very few of the newer ones do.

From what I can remember, the only 4:4:4-capable recorders are:

- Convergent Design Odyssey7Q
- Convergent Design Gemini (Uncompressed DPX only)
- Sound Devices PIX recorders (PIX-240, PIX-E5, PIX-E7)
- AJA Ki Pro Quad
- Sony SR-R1 (HDCAM SR formats)
 
Grug said:
No, with the RGB444 upgrade you can enable 3G-SDI out of the SDI A port, which allows for 4:4:4 up to 30fps or 4:2:2 up to 60fps over a single cable. The tricky thing is finding a recorder that supports 4:4:4 recording. Very few of the newer ones do.

From what I can remember, the only 4:4:4-capable recorders are:

- Convergent Design Odyssey7Q
- Convergent Design Gemini (Uncompressed DPX only)
- Sound Devices PIX recorders (PIX-240, PIX-E5, PIX-E7)
- AJA Ki Pro Quad
- Sony SR-R1 (HDCAM SR formats)
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The PIX-E5 and E7 are can be picked up for a low cost nowadays. I just grabbed a Pix-E7 for low cost for 12-bit 4:4:4, the previous image I posted was recorded with a Blackmagic Video Assist in 10 Bit 4:2:2

A damn great deal with the F3 going for sub $900 prices right now.
 
Gizmosgadget said:
How do you record 4:4:4 ouput to an external recorder? Do you you need to use both SDI outputs?
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Anybody know anything about recording 444 internally?

Someone hinted at the possibility of a mod to do this:

https://cinematography.com/index.ph...erent-versions/&do=findComment&comment=520058

geffyb said:
The PIX-E5 and E7 are can be picked up for a low cost nowadays. I just grabbed a Pix-E7 for low cost for 12-bit 4:4:4, the previous image I posted was recorded with a Blackmagic Video Assist in 10 Bit 4:2:2
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Even though I'm a Sound Devices fan, I'd never really got into their PIX-E series as the Atomos Shogun just seemed like better value with its raw 4K capabilities, but yes that is a good point about the Video Devices PIX series, if you don't care about future 4K raw (from a FS5/FS700) then is the PIX-E5 going to be the cheapest recording monitor to get 444 from the F3?

https://nofilmschool.com/2012/12/sound-devices-12-bit-4444-prores-pix-v3-0-firmware

geffyb said:
A damn great deal with the F3 going for sub $900 prices right now.
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Even seen F3 cameras sell for as low as US$500, I'd regard any F3 for $900 as being a tad overpriced!
 
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