Sony EX3 VS. Panasonic HPX170

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Hey everyone! I am starting up a production company that is going to be focusing on Music Videos, Documentaries, and Short Films.

I was hoping you guys could help figure out which is the better camera for me- including some pros and cons of the EXS versus the HPX170!
(Also what are the best lens options for both?)

I will be editing these projects on FCP.

I am more creatively inclined, and not the best in the technical department.

I really hope you all could help me out! I would really appreciate it!
 
EX3 all the way. Removable lens, cheap media, larger sensors.......there's a long list why.

If you are shooting docs, stick on an Adaptimax and pick up some Nikons and shoot super telephoto for shots not achievable with the stock lens.
 
It's not really a fair comparison. You should be comparing/price shopping the EX3 to the HPX-300.

But to answer your question, for what it's worth, definitely the EX3 unless you're on a tight startup budget.


As far as lenses, again it depends on your budget. You can't go wrong with Canon, Fujinon or Zeiss.
 
EX3 is $3,000 more than the HPX170. If you want to compare to the EX3, you should be looking at the HPX300. If you're happy with either the 170 or the EX3, then consider whether that $3,000 matters.
 
Barry_Green said:
EX3 is $3,000 more than the HPX170. If you want to compare to the EX3, you should be looking at the HPX300. If you're happy with either the 170 or the EX3, then consider whether that $3,000 matters.
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Good point.......

When I was shopping the EX3 and HPX170 it was clear that the EX3 had in my opinion far better image quality as well as versatility and interchangeable lens. Than when doing the math, Sony had rebates and the store I bought from discounted some accessories I wanted and the ability to record on SD cards made it very close in cost. At that point it was a no brainer...... EX3 all the way.

frisco
 
or if you don't care about changing lenses or having TC in/out, save some dough and get the ex1.

same camera as ex3 internally. same lens. same menus. same image.

and definitely ex1/ex3 over hpx170. not even close.

both have strengths and weaknesses. but at the end of the day, the sonys win.

hpx170 - good: global shutter, intra-frame compression, panasonic "mojo"
hpx170 - bad: LCD sucks, pixel shifting, 1/3" chips, P2 media still expensive

ex1/3 - good: full raster 1920x1080 1/2" chips, LCD rocks, record to inexpensive SD cards
ex1/3 - bad: long GOP compression, rolling shutter


the biggest issue with ex is the rolling shutter. when shooting on the long end of the lens, jellovision and skew will show up if you let it. it can be avoided if you take care to steady your long lens shots. the long GOP codec thing isn't a huge deal. you can still manipulate the footage in post without it falling apart.

i've been a die-hard pana guy since i started in this business 3 years ago. and i will still shoot on a 170 or a 500 if i'm shooting ultra fast action or something that would make too much jello on the ex. but otherwise, sony wins this one. after shooting several projects on rented ex's i finally pulled the trigger on one at NAB yesterday (ex1). i shot a bunch with it today and just tweaking colors in post right now. this footage has me feeling giddy....

one thing that i am noticing is that the xdcam footage stays really clean when lifting the mids in post. dvcpro gets ugly real quick when doing this. is this a compression thing? anybody know?
 
I have an EX1 and absolutely love it. I haven't shot an HPX170 but I'm sure it's pretty sweet too. There are issues with the EX1/3 that don't effect me in my type of shooting, but you should be aware of them in case you haven't come across them in your research. The rolling shutter issue (mainly from frame filling flashes from cameras and whip pans) and needing an IR filter in some situations when shooting black clothing (turns a muddy reddish brown). The image from this camera is friggin' amazing! It'll make you poop your pants.
 
cheezweezl said:
the biggest issue with ex is the rolling shutter. when shooting on the long end of the lens, jellovision and skew will show up if you let it. it can be avoided if you take care to steady your long lens shots. the long GOP codec thing isn't a huge deal. you can still manipulate the footage in post without it falling apart.
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Thanks Buck, and cheez, but now that brings me back to the rolling shutter issue...

Is this the main issue with the EX3? I am not really technical at all with the camera, and that seemed to be a perfect explanation... but could someone explain it in terms like their talking to a child? hahaha

I am still a little confused on what that means.
 
Rolling shutter is when you're shooting a scene and your shutter, which is round, falls out of your camera and starts rolling away. The effect of the rolling shutter is dependent upon the angle of the slope you are shooting on. If you're on top of a steep hill, kiss that sucker goodbye.
 
The EX3 has some features over the EX1. If you aren't going to use those features, and most don't, you'd do much better getting the EX1, a good rod system with shoulder mount, maybe a nanoFlash XDR, some good mics and an external mixer and recorder, grip equipment, lights, filters, etc.
 
For reals, I'm no expert, but very basically it's an issue due to the CMOS not reading a frame all at once, it has a "read time", so in certain circumstances the effect of this can be seen (camera flashes, whip pans).

I run at full speed often with my EX1 and have never come across rolling shutter effects (no jellovision). One time my little boy took a flash picture with his camera within 3 feet of my lens and it looked sorta weird on playback. If you're shooting around a lot of flashing lights this might not be the camera for you. The skew is not a factor for me, but if you're shooting primarily fast action sports this might not be the camera for you. I shoot music, documentary style stuff, wilderness adventure, chasing my kids, short movies, and this camera is awesome. If I were shooting just paparazzi or race cars, I'd go with CCD chips.
 
A note on the HPX300. About the same price as an EX3, however with a high quality recoding scheme (100Mb/s AVC Intra). It also 'looks' more like a professional cam than the EX1/EX3 that look like large prosumer cameras. Panasonic also has some cute features built in, the most useful may be the flash correction enhancement previewed at NAB. The new P2s are less expensive, although you will probably be over $10k out the door.

The support network around the Panasonic may be a bit better also. People here and you could always PM Jan. Does anyone know a Sony rep who takes questions if your business card doesn't say 'NBC'?
 
Just a heads up for somewhere in the kinda near future :) I was at NAB and the people at The Foundry told me they'd accidentaly stumbled upon a post production solution for the Rolling Shutter issues- skew n jello cam... I believe they said it was while one of their engineers was working on a plug-in for tracking? So, they are now interested in further developing this, possibly as a plug-in for After Effects and/or other softwares. They can't know which until they come further along with it, and they also said they hope to have it out before the year ends (if at all, fingers crossed) but definitely something for us EX1 users to keep an eye out for...
 
lol, hate that when the roller falls out and you have to chase after it, what a pain in the ass! Rolling shutter = lose


you just became my friend buck
 
Stevet said:
sharpness is not everything, but image detail means a lot.
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well, not for everyone ..... there is tons of DVX footages that i like much more than anything i've seen shot with EXs or Canon 5D. It's all about personal tastes. That's why i was saying people should give a try to the cams before or at least watch all the footages they can find on the web.
 
All of these cameras have quite a bit of latitude in exposure and color. You can make good quality stuff in any of them. Make a list of your priorities. Poke around and find footage you like. Find out how they made that footage. Then review the cameras against your priorities. Do you have a customer who wants XDCAM EX or DVCProHD? That could be a deciding factor.

Note that some cameras have edge sharpening which is an acquired taste like a 1/4 pounder with cheese.
 
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