scorsesefan
Veteran
Spec wise I think people will migrate from the FS7 to the FX6, but in terms of client cachet I think most FS7 upgraders will go to the larger FX9 and use the FX6 as a b-cam...
Sony Cinema Line & FX6
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
Spec wise I think people will migrate from the FS7 to the FX6, but in terms of client cachet I think most FS7 upgraders will go to the larger FX9 and use the FX6 as a b-cam...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Ive been quiet on this thread - still thinking this through.
Still sony are naughty with schoolboy errors in design - no jack for scratch sound
- generally that top handle is a fail.
Overall I think it is good.. but really making me think .. why upgrade from the FS7 at all - I dont think the picture will be any better.. and the picture on the FS7 in 4k is very adequate
So one needs to mull the AF and the option of a 28-135 or 24-105 being an upgrade from my 28-80 and booster combo.
Its very pleasing not to have to pay FX9 money to get half decent AF.
Ill probably buy in a year???
Still sony are naughty with schoolboy errors in design - no jack for scratch sound
- generally that top handle is a fail.Overall I think it is good.. but really making me think .. why upgrade from the FS7 at all - I dont think the picture will be any better.. and the picture on the FS7 in 4k is very adequate
So one needs to mull the AF and the option of a 28-135 or 24-105 being an upgrade from my 28-80 and booster combo.
Its very pleasing not to have to pay FX9 money to get half decent AF.
Ill probably buy in a year???
NorBro
Major Contributor
I just don't see it...I really, truly want to see it and I see it in the FX9 all of the time (from Day 1), but something is so off about this video for me.
The talent and effort and production is of course beyond great, but the IQ and motion is not working for my brain.
Ive been quiet on this thread - still thinking this through.
Still sony are naughty with schoolboy errors in design - no jack for scratch sound
Overall I think it is good.. but really making me think .. why upgrade from the FS7 at all - I dont think the picture will be any better.. and the picture on the FS7 in 4k is very adequate
So one needs to mull the AF and the option of a 28-135 or 24-105 being an upgrade from my 28-80 and booster combo.
Its very pleasing not to have to pay FX9 money to get half decent AF.
Ill probably buy in a year???
Sam - this is more or less where I am too with my current thoughts on this. Lots of really good specs...but some concerns with ergonomics, etc and not that huge leap of an upgrade from current FS7. And no UHD / 4K in s35. Plus, I did buy an A7SIII - so that will already cover the gimbal shots, etc and looks like it can easily be B cam to my FS7. Still lots to ponder...
puredrifting
Major Contributor
If I owned an FS7 and an A7 SIII, no way in hell I would buy an FX6 unless I needed a tax write off. Even though the FX6 is really small and light, the A7 SIII is lighter and smaller, which is generally better for gimbal use. Same reason I don't mount my C200 or 300 MKII on a one handed gimbal, that's just a recipe for awkwardness and fatigue. The X-T3 on the gimbal is a dream, I've shot fiull 12-13 hours days with it on the gimbal for a documentary.
The color science on the newer cameras is generally superior to the FS7 color science SOOC as I am sure you've discovered with your A7 SIII, but if you color most of your stuff or your clients do, FS7 with log can look great. Like everything, let your business model dictate your gear acquisition.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Its all pretty marginal!
So whats my FS7 gripes..
mass
lack of AF
Firstly I hate mirrorless but many others seem to think this new 10bit sony is a contender.
Well holding a gimbal with an FS7 (and remote focus) is not marginal - its back breaking (!).. but maybe I could use the mirrorless
Im not doing army (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vic7w4OUlRI) at the moment where shaving grams helps a fifty year old keep up with the infantry
The handheld mass only really affects me If I have to trog many km in a day with the rig.
AF? well its a time saver on a gimbal but apparently the mirrorless cam has a better touch screen (and is lighter?)
AF is also handy on a slider and when you can't see your screen in the sun
time to think over all those occasions.
BUt..
BPU , (19v) power in, ND I think Id prefer to drop $6g on this than $3g on a mirrorles which would just be there to annoy. It might win on specifics but day to day mirrorless suck.
So whats my FS7 gripes..
mass
lack of AF
Firstly I hate mirrorless but many others seem to think this new 10bit sony is a contender.
Well holding a gimbal with an FS7 (and remote focus) is not marginal - its back breaking (!).. but maybe I could use the mirrorless
Im not doing army (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vic7w4OUlRI) at the moment where shaving grams helps a fifty year old keep up with the infantry
The handheld mass only really affects me If I have to trog many km in a day with the rig.
AF? well its a time saver on a gimbal but apparently the mirrorless cam has a better touch screen (and is lighter?)
AF is also handy on a slider and when you can't see your screen in the sun
time to think over all those occasions.
BUt..
BPU , (19v) power in, ND I think Id prefer to drop $6g on this than $3g on a mirrorles which would just be there to annoy. It might win on specifics but day to day mirrorless suck.
I almost feel the FX6 is a step backwards from the FS7. Moving to full-frame is not appealing. It's being done to sell cameras and people are going for it. I really admire how easily customers can be manipulated. As we pondered a while back, once the full-frame market has been saturated by the manufacturers, you have to wonder where they will take us next.
As Morgan said, the audio on the grip is almost embarrassing. It's so cheesy.
As Morgan said, the audio on the grip is almost embarrassing. It's so cheesy.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Personally I liked the motion fine. But they still managed to make him look lifeless as so many A7SIII promo videos did. Nice detail level though I think
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Ive been quiet on this thread - still thinking this through.
Still sony are naughty with schoolboy errors in design - no jack for scratch sound
Overall I think it is good.. but really making me think .. why upgrade from the FS7 at all - I dont think the picture will be any better.. and the picture on the FS7 in 4k is very adequate
So one needs to mull the AF and the option of a 28-135 or 24-105 being an upgrade from my 28-80 and booster combo.
Its very pleasing not to have to pay FX9 money to get half decent AF.
Ill probably buy in a year???
I think the image probably will be better than the FS7 - better skin tones and color, especially SOOC.
But I put my upgrade odds at 25% right now because the FS7 is a famous camera that is better suited to shoulder mounting and delivers adequate IQ as well as codecs that are not improved upon here.
Reasons to upgrade: AF, low-light, 4k120p
But, again, having an A7SIII helps me cover those bases at least with 1 camera, and personally I prefer the form factor combo of FS7/fx9 and a mirrorless camera rather than an attempt at one size fits all like the FX6.
What about the PZ 18-110 for your FS7? I think it's actually a better lens than the 28-135 as reflected in the price, although I haven't looked at it carefully. Or just the canon 18-80 with an adapter
scorsesefan
Veteran
It seems to me the A7SIII will cannibalize FX6 sales. At 40% cheaper and the same guts I doubt many will pay the extra $2500 for vari ND and XLR inputs...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I dont get why people buy cameras without having specific problems. My specific problems are the mass of the FS7 and the lack of AF - this FX6 DOES cure them although the AF is not getting good press. It now up to me to think if that mass and need to turn the focus barrell are worth $6g to get rid of.
I think FF is useful mainly becuase old FF primes are cheap and also a couple of lenses like there is a crappy 24-200 which is a great - a range not matched in the S35 cheapo zoom lenses (I think)
I get losing the CN7 is a pain if you shoot tons of live/as live - its really to me the only downside of moving from S35
The CN7 is pretty unique in the larger sensor world - that proper zoom motor and a half decent range.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yeah more or less although different people have different needs. For me the A7SIII is usually an MOS gimbal b-roll shooter and can sync with scratch audio track if need be. Fx6 would be FS7 replacement for me and be nice for more closely matching color, low-light, and running both cameras with eye AF during shallow DOF interviews. But even that last item is far more useful on the CU than the wide so not wholly necessary for both cameras
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Im sure the image will be better.. but not enough to justify dustbin for the FS7. At worst I would be having the FS7 as Bcam so ultimately you are going to grade them to match
(IV situation FS7 on a wide and FX6 on an 80-200 keeping the face pin)
Low light.. for me that is rare usually id want a couple of lights to sculpt the scene anyway - my FS7 is fine with a couple of panels out in the city night.
Not worried about FS7 lowlight lacking.
AF - yep it can be big,
-on a gimbal
-when you are not concentrating (like solo asking IV qestions)
-On a crappy screen in the sun
Id like AF
The PZ lenses - for sure but they are not too cheap and decent AF should work OK with a crappo lens, the reason I dont like crappo lenses is because you have to touch the ring. As soon as you trust the AF crappy lenses are just fine.
The thing for all us (esp FS7 owners) is to go and have a good think about how much is brought for the money. For some it is doubtless a winner and some less so. For me .. I need to think about that.. and also have a think about the mirrorless cam.
Having the FS7 doing B cam (wider lockoff) handles all the XLR issues.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I spose its also worth finding the trade in price for the FS7 - doubtless shocking.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
At worst, you trade in your fs7 for an FX6 but your client still wants the FS7 and now you have to rent
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
I agree with Ahalpert on this one, I'll probably end up picking up both, though probably the FX6 for now to see what features next years A7 cameras have (the A7 and A7R replacements) as I do a decent amount of still photography and the 12mp sensor can be a bit limiting. If those cameras have matchable color then I think I'll be in a good shape as it will allow me to sell my odyssey 7Q+ and slim down my kit for the smaller jobs I do and the bigger jobs I rent for where the sonys wouldn't do the job. Those jobs though aren't enough at least right now to justify investing in a more expensive system because for 90% of my work the sonys are great. Still would like to get my hand on a FX6 to really play around with it but probably going to just order one and try to sell the FS5 mk2 and odyssey combo if I can.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Supposedly the a7iv is coming mid to late next year for $2500 and will have 4k60p. cant remember if it will have 10-bit, which is important... a7siii will have some advantages but so will a7iv and if you're a hybrid shooter I think the choice is obviously a7iv. I might get one for a C camera
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly. I just need a 10 bit b cam with good color science for a B cam for video that can also do stills. I have the A7R mk2 but would like something in the 24-30mp range as well for other projects. If it gets the solid autofocus features then even better for a gimbal cam but worst case the fx6 can work as one. I mean only use the gimbal so much anymore as I'm getting tired of them being used for no reason haha.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Do you think your clients (even weddings) would take issue at all with you bringing a munchkin like the FX6 to a shoot as your A-Cam, Abe?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I've never shot a wedding with the fs7. no need, plus a smaller, less obtrusive camera is preferable. i've used my c300 plenty at weddings. but right now i'm doing a7siii and gh5, with gh4 (or 5dmk3 depending on my mood) when i need a 3rd angle. a7iv would be nice and then i'd do a7siii, a7iv and gh5.
fs7 is certainly more impressive-looking than fx6. no one would turn me away with an fx6 though, unless they had specifically requested something else. and the vast majority of the shoots I do are not specific about the camera request. they just need 4k or they just need 10-bit 4k. and they need log or they need not-log.
but i'm curious to see where the people who DO request the fs7 or c300mk2 etc end up. but certainly with matching codecs + sdi out and TC, it's hard to see why the fx6 can't do what the fs7 does. BUT some measure of those camera requests are based on prestige/price of the camera and the not wholly unfounded assumption that a higher price tier camera is superior. so are there people who might request an fx9 or an fs7 but not an fx6? maybe.