ahalpert
Major Contributor
I agree. But there's an argument against buying an FX9 now if people might turn it down in favor of the FS7 for the moment.
Sony Cinema Line & FX6
- Thread starter Teddy_Dem
- Start date
I agree. But there's an argument against buying an FX9 now if people might turn it down in favor of the FS7 for the moment.
Could it be that the day rate for an owner-op is less than the rental rate for the camera they really want?
This looks potentially very exciting. It'd be great if it were much like an A7Siii in that body, but that would step on the FX9 too much. Wish they would go ahead and give us more what we want with the FX6 and then later make the FX9ii better but they still want lots of FX9 sales yet.
I do not need another camera.
I do not need another camera.
I do not...
I do not need another camera.
I do not need another camera.
I do not...
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Doubtful. You can rent an FX9 for $300
With the advent of the Sony VENICE and FX9 we can say that for the first time in Sony’s history they have created sensors and a color science with a genuine ‘film look’, on par with ARRI’s. To have this stupendous FX9 FF sensor, with its impressive color science, dynamic range, low noise, good sensitivity, S-Cinetone (likely) option, to have all of these packed on a small and lightweight FS5 type video camera body (with electronic ND filters, Sony autofocus technology…) is very exciting. We have to wait and see how the images look like but if they are close to FX9 images, this FX6 could arguably become the camera of the decade (I thought it was going to be the FX9).
Also, the FX9 has a FF6K sensor, so assuming the FX6 has that same sensor, you are going to have the option of a genuine s35 4K scan mode to use with s35 lenses (this is unavailable with the A7S III which has a FF 4.2K sensor allowing only s35 2K). Many people have invested in s35 cine lenses, they are affordable and numerous, and because of their size and weight, they are going to pair very well with this small body size.
https://www.fdtimes.com/2020/09/02/sony-fx6-joins-cinema-line
Also, the FX9 has a FF6K sensor, so assuming the FX6 has that same sensor, you are going to have the option of a genuine s35 4K scan mode to use with s35 lenses (this is unavailable with the A7S III which has a FF 4.2K sensor allowing only s35 2K). Many people have invested in s35 cine lenses, they are affordable and numerous, and because of their size and weight, they are going to pair very well with this small body size.
https://www.fdtimes.com/2020/09/02/sony-fx6-joins-cinema-line
"The FX6 is planned for release later this year. It is almost surely Full Frame. The “X” in FX9 is like eXtra or eXcellent and Full Frame. The “S” in FS7 helps me remember that it is a Super35 camera."
If it turns out to be a full frame that will be something. Hopefully it will have raw since the A7SIII already does. And please no xqd.
Grug
Veteran
I think it'll all depend on which approach they take. A restricted FX9 (like you're proposing) would be my first guess (based on Sony's past approaches). The dark horse is simply the A7Siii and how many features Sony have allowed it to have. Them allowing the A7Siii to be so feature-rich is the only thing that makes me think that a video-centric version (the FX6) might be possible.
It would absolutely be out of character for Sony to deliver this. But now that they've done it once, there is a faint chance they might do it again.
We can only hope.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Obviously, I don't know what they'll ACTUALLY do. I'm sure they COULD do what you're proposing, and it would be great.
But the reason you dislike the a7siii is the form factor, body flimsiness, lack of ND and proper ports, etc. So, all those drawbacks prevent it from stepping on the FX9's toes.
An FX6 with A7Siii specs is in some ways preferable to the FX9 (and in some ways not). I think the FS5 was cleanly outclassed by the FS7, so I expect a repeat of that arrangement.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Which is funny because the FX9 is such a superior camera to the FS7 MKII.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
the devil they know
anyway, if you buy an fs7 used, you'll hardly lose any money at all when you resell it
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
timecode?
the fx9 has timcode?
here is a nice thing not to offer
the fx9 has timcode?
here is a nice thing not to offer
One way to deal with the FX6 stepping on the FX9's toes would be to push the FX6 upmarket so if Sony loses some FX9 sales to the FX6 it doesn't matter that much. Perhaps the loupe will be an optional (and overpriced) extra. Pros will still buy it. Maybe something else (full LUT support) could be an optional firmware upgrade.
I'm just dreaming cos I really hope they don't unnecessarily compromise the FX6. I don't want a bigger camera, thanks.
Also, I'd really like a decent loupe that doesn't weigh (Zacuto) as much as the camera body.
I'm just dreaming cos I really hope they don't unnecessarily compromise the FX6. I don't want a bigger camera, thanks.
Also, I'd really like a decent loupe that doesn't weigh (Zacuto) as much as the camera body.
It looks like he is doing a £ to $ currency exchange to get to $7,000. Right now, it's at 1.33, which would be around £5,250. Usually, the real market pricing is much closer. As an example, S1H is £3,600 VAT included, which is ~ $4,800 (it's $4K in the US pre-sales tax) or 20% higher in the UK, as listed. And, if you take 20% off $7,000 ....
Or they could toss in some free/low cost upgrades on FX-9, which is no longer competing solely against C500 MKII.
I do agree with several posts that there's a bit of a disconnect with the A7SIII features. That's likely due to the hybrids and the "cinema" coming from two different departments and priced to two different markets. With A7SIII being expected to move lots and lots more units overall.
I think they have the A7SIII codec options in the FX6 so not the same as the FX9. No timecode in/out, no 3D-LUTS, no 4 channel audio, no dual base ISO (or a limited version of it), no 4k60p but still 10-bit 4:2:2 recording in all resolutions.
The screen will probably be the same as the FX9 or very similar in features including touch screen and touch auto focus. Same sensor for sure but with less internal processing power just as is the case with the FS5.
Question is if it will use SDXC cards?
Anyway, if they just nail the same great AF from the FX9 and 10-bit 4:2:2 under $7000 I'm in. Not to mention the highly industrial look of that machine.
The screen will probably be the same as the FX9 or very similar in features including touch screen and touch auto focus. Same sensor for sure but with less internal processing power just as is the case with the FS5.
Question is if it will use SDXC cards?
Anyway, if they just nail the same great AF from the FX9 and 10-bit 4:2:2 under $7000 I'm in. Not to mention the highly industrial look of that machine.
I should have an early review unit and will report facts, not rumors at that point. Sony really isn't saying anything, so rumors are just that. I suspect there may be leaks from within Sony or third parties. I have an a7s III on order and I'm hoping to see a7s III in a dedicated video camera form factor. I told this to Sony and got a grunt in reply. So I guess I can say that. Of course, if I were given hard facts, I wouldn't say because i'm not going to leak. All I know is what is officially out there and what I published. But guessing games are still fun. My speculations-- full frame, Venice color science, ProRes RAW out, SD or perhaps even CFast Express A storage, a7s III sensor. But note this is only a fun guessing game and not based upon anything from my tight-lipped Sony contacts.
joema
Active member
Another issue is cost and complexity of getting regular ProRes or ProRes RAW out of the FS5/FS7/FX6/FX9 vs the A7SIII. With the A7SIII, it's one HDMI cable and a Ninja V. Yes HDMI interconnects aren't "pro" but they work. It doesn't require a camera backpack. If the A7SIII requires a firmware upgrade for ProRes RAW that would likely be either free or cheap.
With the FS7 and FX9 it requires (1) The expensive XDCA backback, and (2) A larger, more expensive SDI recorder like the Atomos Inferno or Shogun 7. The FS5 doesn't require a backpack but it cannot send 10-bit ProRes or ProRes RAW to a Ninja V, requiring an SDI-connected Inferno or Shogun 7.
If you don't care about ProRes RAW but only want 10-bit 4:2:2 ProRes, on the S1H or A7SIII you can also get that with an HDMI-connected Ninja V. I know the FS5 & FSF7 cannot send clean 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 HDMI to a Ninja V; not sure about the FX6 and FX9.
It seems virtually certain the FX6 will eventually have ProRes and ProRes RAW to some Atomos recorder, but the S1H has this right now (via HDMI) and the A7SIII will likely have it from day 1 or shortly thereafter.
Putting a Shogun 7 on the FX6 isn't that bad, but it's a "small" camera. It would be nice if it could send 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 regular ProRes or maybe even 12-bit ProRes RAW to a Ninja V via HDMI.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
CLearly the A7s (or whatever its called) is interesting but (most) users of the FX9 and 6 bacially know that a recorder pimped S1h can have technically great image but do not care.
THey are in a market for a whole camera that has ND and provides a file of both audio and picture without reliance on a puny wire.
THey are in a market for a whole camera that has ND and provides a file of both audio and picture without reliance on a puny wire.
Ease of use and something that just works is more important than the last few procent of IQ. A7S3 is great but I'd never consider to use something like that for the corporate films I shoot. I just want a professional video camera. The DSLR revolution was fun and exciting to be part of but it sucks to shoot video with a still camera these days.
Are you talking about "raw" output here? Or is this a limitation of the Ninja V? Because I send 3840×2160 23.98P clean 10-bit HDMI signal from my FS7 to my PIXE5 recorder to record ProRes files all the time. Perhaps it's 4:2:0 ?? I'm not sure Sony ever confirmed or denied this??