Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Good point. Because we all know that in reality, people look like this...
Hahaha!
I thought this was great.
Thanks for this bwhitz.
See? Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
Sony Affordable 35mm is here, finally! SONY PMW-F3 a 35mm XDCAM EX
- Thread starter GOODYES
- Start date
Hahaha!
I thought this was great.
Thanks for this bwhitz.
See? Even a broken clock is right two times a day.
It's a 12-MP sensor that functions essentially as basspig suggested.
Crop factor compared to FF35 is not relevant to shooting anything. The only things that are relevant are angle of view, object distance, focal length, and aperture for the format you are shooting in. Nobody spends time on set calculating crop factors. They compose for field of view and select the lens settings for the desired visual characteristics vs camera viewpoint. I've shot everything from 4x5 view cameras down to 1/3" video cameras and never bothered with crop factor as a consideration for any of them. All lenses are marked for their actual focal lengths regardless of format, not their FF35 equivalents. A 50mm lens for FF35, S35, 4/3, 16mm/2/3", or 1/3" is exactly the same focal length in every case. A 50mm lens for an FF35 camera will give you exactly the same field of view on a 1/3" camera as a 50mm lens made for a 1/3" camera.
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Paul curtis is correct with most everything he said except the fact that FF35 is the standard to which lenses are measured. There isn't one. A 35mm lens is a 35mm lens on everything.
However, people do associate the FoV of focal lengths with formats. You'll find most professionals think of focal lengths and FoV in terms of motion picture 35mm academy or S35mm film. Your new batch of amateur DSLR users will probably associate focal lengths and FoV with the results from their DSLR's and in some cases (5DmII) full frame.
Overall, there isn't a standard format to which lenses are measured. It's actually a formula that incorporates different criteria of the lens design.
However, people do associate the FoV of focal lengths with formats. You'll find most professionals think of focal lengths and FoV in terms of motion picture 35mm academy or S35mm film. Your new batch of amateur DSLR users will probably associate focal lengths and FoV with the results from their DSLR's and in some cases (5DmII) full frame.
Overall, there isn't a standard format to which lenses are measured. It's actually a formula that incorporates different criteria of the lens design.
I understand what s-log is... basically the same thing as Panalog. It's nice, but it doesn't change the color space or resolutions. It's also not worth $15000. I still stand firm in my belief that Sony is selling a $4-5k camera for $20k... and duping allot of people along the way.
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Teodor Miljevic
Active member
People who have 15000$ to spend on a camera don´t get duped. they buy the gear they need and make money of it. Maybe in some relative worth you could argue that they could maybe produce the same quality at a lower price. But price isn't everything it doesen't even come close. People want stuff to work I have a lot of customers that have a final cut pipeline(avchd is noy their friend) and they love working with material from my ex1. I would not dream of buying a avchd camera as my first and only camera( I will probably buy it as my second one
since I would loose a lot of customers. What would you choose to save 10k and loose a lot of customers or buy a more expensive camera and keep the customers. Some one would argue that I need to educate my customers but I say I'm not a preacher/teacher I'm a videographer/cinematographer.If you compare af100 and f3 based on what "guts" they are based on you should clearly see that the camcorder if nothing else was different should cost at least 3000$ more since af100 has hmc150 guts and f3 has ex1 with the more expensive express interface and a 10 bit pipe out. I still think they should have went 50Mb and i would rather upgrade to that compared to dual sdi. The biggest thing with this camera would be if they make relatively cheap zoom lenses a specially if they correct the problems like CA and distortion in camera (since its specially made for the camera) then that would be a real hit.
Another thing I dont get is the lens kit it goes from normal tol tele FOV you would need at lest one wide (20mm maybe) to be useful. Has anyone heard if they will be proper cinelenses or stillphoto lenses
Carlos_Nieto
Member
I rather said a $7-8k camera for $20k... The more I think about it the more I'm convinced to go after the AF-100.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
I posted to the link of press release regarding the sensor on the other thread.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?228294-Sony-PMW-F3&p=2153746&viewfull=1#post2153746
This new sensor has a pixel area that is 4 larger then their dSLR cameras. Which means this camera isn't a 12MP sensor. There have been suggestions that this sensor may not be a bayer sensor but rather a Q67 pattern that Sony has recently shown.
I just noticed that there is already a thread for the Q67 here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?224519-Q67-Bayer-with-a-twist
Yea... exactly. So stop trying.
Sorry, I was referring to the F35's sensor, not the F3's.
Q67 is just a Bayer pattern sensor turned 45 degrees. Despite the chart hype, it is still sampling red and blue at half the green channel area per interpolated RGB pixel. Something by the way that the human eye does too. Seems to help aliasing issues though.
If done correctly, it seems that it could also eliminate the need to interpolate color information.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
I understand, however the F35 isn't a bayer sensor either (as basspig suggested) its a full RGB (stripped).
It is a bayer turned 45 degrees, however in practice it's completely different and addresses the many shortcomings of the bayer sensor. I'd also imagine it was a challenge to implement as well, being that a CMOS sensor with a column-based rolling shutter the readout is linear and oriented on an x,y axis. With the Q67 approach the rolling shutter needs to be completely redesigned since columns cross diagonally on sensor, and each photosite is made of slices of other pixels.
True, but I believe that it's a 5,760 x 2,160 sensor that does two-pixel binning vertically, then samples the RGB values horizontally, yielding a 1,920-pixel horizontal count. I believe basspig's point was that the only way to get 4:4:4 1080p out of a single sensor is to start with a lot more than 2,073,600 pixels, which is the case with the F3.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
For the F35 you are getting full 4:4:4 RGB being that its stripped RGB, a bayer will not get full RGB. Q67 is a compromise between a full RGB and a bayer, the graphs posted previously explain this the best;
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Graeme Natress on F35, Bayer, Q67, etc.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?228294-Sony-PMW-F3&p=2153995&viewfull=1#post2153995
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?228294-Sony-PMW-F3&p=2153995&viewfull=1#post2153995
The F3 has a newly developed sensor that is S35 in size, and 1920x1080p resolution. Video is not being downsampled. No line skipping or pixel binning.
According to initial reports it should have at least 11 stops, not couting S-log.
The PL mount has both Cooke I and Arri data connectors. That is a huge deal for doing green screen and motion tracking work.
With the software upgrade it will do 1080x60px 10bit 4:4:4 color via 3G SDI.
It also has on board tech to coordinate 2 F3s for 3D cinematography.
Sony is developing a series of zoom lenses that work with the built in F3 mount, and plan on showing them at NAB.
This camera is not aimed at the Red crowd, the HD DSLR crowd or the AF100 crowd. People need to understand that.
With this camera, you will not need to pay another 5K for a RedRocket card in order to get realtime editing. In fact the system requirements
for 1080p are significantly less that what is need for Red at 4K.
Not criticising , just pointing out that there is a market for both.
Capture options can be setup to suit your particular needs.
For the moment, there have been no independent 3rd party tests, at least ones that can be talked about in public.
But one thing is certain. It offers a lot more than the AF100 does for professonal production companies.
That may not mean anything at all to low budget indies, and that's just fine too.
While I don't plan on buying one, I can see where a lot of people would find this camera useful.
All of it depends on the quality of the video it creates.
According to initial reports it should have at least 11 stops, not couting S-log.
The PL mount has both Cooke I and Arri data connectors. That is a huge deal for doing green screen and motion tracking work.
With the software upgrade it will do 1080x60px 10bit 4:4:4 color via 3G SDI.
It also has on board tech to coordinate 2 F3s for 3D cinematography.
Sony is developing a series of zoom lenses that work with the built in F3 mount, and plan on showing them at NAB.
This camera is not aimed at the Red crowd, the HD DSLR crowd or the AF100 crowd. People need to understand that.
With this camera, you will not need to pay another 5K for a RedRocket card in order to get realtime editing. In fact the system requirements
for 1080p are significantly less that what is need for Red at 4K.
Not criticising , just pointing out that there is a market for both.
Capture options can be setup to suit your particular needs.
For the moment, there have been no independent 3rd party tests, at least ones that can be talked about in public.
But one thing is certain. It offers a lot more than the AF100 does for professonal production companies.
That may not mean anything at all to low budget indies, and that's just fine too.
While I don't plan on buying one, I can see where a lot of people would find this camera useful.
All of it depends on the quality of the video it creates.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Jon Fauers write up is now available. Probably everything you guys know but now in a well worded and singular place.
http://www.fdtimes.com/sony/f3
http://www.fdtimes.com/sony/f3