Sony A7SIII = $3500, 10-bit 4K120p internal, 16-bit 4K60p RAW out
- Thread starter ahalpert
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marvinhello
Well-known member
The starting point was a plugin called CineMatch, it basically matches the A7S III colours to ARRI Alexa at sensor level. The tool and the camera profiles are all at beta stage, hence the watermark. Only minor adjustments were then added.
The images were linked directly from imgur.
Panasonic!
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Panasonic doesn't do phase-detect autofocus. Otherwise I'd still own an S1. Even if they start using PDAF, I bet it would take them a while to make it as good as Canon/Sony (just like Komodo). So, basically Panasonic is not on my radar
Technically speaking, they could do what Samsung has done (on and off) and that is laser aided auto focus. They took it out on Galaxy 20 and had a lot of problems with their 108 MPX camera AF. They brought it back for Note 20 that was announced a few days ago and, off the early reviews, it's spot on.
Of course, there are a lot of things Panasonic could have done but chose not to.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Laser aided autofocus? I dunno. I don't know much about autofocus. I dont think it's been good for video until recently, and only now because of phase-detect, perhaps because phase-detect can tell if the focus is too far or too near so it can always adjust in the correct direction?
Can laser-aided do that? Can it cover all areas of the frame?
Panasonic talks up their fancy "Depth from Defocus" but in practice it ain't doing what canon/sony/nikon do
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Hmm yes I suppose that could work... in theory that could work well once you add the laser and detector and processing...although you would have to be very clever about matching the laser data to the image data so you could AI track objects and people...
One nice thing about phase detect is that it's all happening with the same sensor/data so there's a seamless processing of distance (or if not exact distance then whether the focus is too near or too far) and color/brightness at the same photo site, which I imagine makes it easy to build in the AI object-identification and tracking.
Another issue with the lidar approach is that it only gives you a distance reading. Your lens must be calibrated correctly to focus at set distances. With phase-detect, the camera knows if the lens is in focus even if it doesn't know the exact distance. Which, for us, is more useful
One nice thing about phase detect is that it's all happening with the same sensor/data so there's a seamless processing of distance (or if not exact distance then whether the focus is too near or too far) and color/brightness at the same photo site, which I imagine makes it easy to build in the AI object-identification and tracking.
Another issue with the lidar approach is that it only gives you a distance reading. Your lens must be calibrated correctly to focus at set distances. With phase-detect, the camera knows if the lens is in focus even if it doesn't know the exact distance. Which, for us, is more useful
puredrifting
Major Contributor
It's interesting. The AF on the A7 SIII, Sony states, "Fast Hybrid AF with 759 phase-detection AF points and enhanced Real-time Eye AF". For the AF System on the FX9, Sony states, "Developed by Sony’s camera engineers, enhanced Fast Hybrid AF combines phase detection AF for fast, accurate subject tracking with contrast AF for exceptional focus accuracy. In addition, Face Detection intelligently recognizes and locks on to human faces."
This means if the A7 SIII has the same technology that they used in the FX9, it isn't simply a phase detect AF system. "Hybrid", in Sony language, means the AF system is sandwiched into the layers of the sensor and includes a layer of phase detect modules AND a layer of contrast detect modules, hence the "Hybrid" name.
From what I understand, this is the technology differentiator, the fact that the system techically uses two different types of AF sensing, then uses DSP to allow the system to track subjects. I find it strange that when I was at Sony, they had some wonderful slides that they showed us that highlighted exactly how this works
yet, I cannot find anything on the A7 SIII or FX9 web pages that really goes into detail. Nobody knows what the Hybrid AF system is unless they have seen this slide or are an engineering type brain and can deduct what Sony is talking about when they say, "Hybrid".
Sony should really be publicizng the hell out of this as it is the secret sauce that makes their AF so amazing. I'm not sure what Canon is using in the latest generations of their cameras and I am not sure if Sony could hold a patent that allows them to be the
only ones to utilize this Hybrid layered technology. When I saw this slide, it made total sense as to why it would be superior to any phase detect only AF system, seems strange that Sony doesn't seem to play it up as much as they could. We know the Sony AF
system is probably the best on the market in 2020, but few know WHY it is the best.
This means if the A7 SIII has the same technology that they used in the FX9, it isn't simply a phase detect AF system. "Hybrid", in Sony language, means the AF system is sandwiched into the layers of the sensor and includes a layer of phase detect modules AND a layer of contrast detect modules, hence the "Hybrid" name.
From what I understand, this is the technology differentiator, the fact that the system techically uses two different types of AF sensing, then uses DSP to allow the system to track subjects. I find it strange that when I was at Sony, they had some wonderful slides that they showed us that highlighted exactly how this works
yet, I cannot find anything on the A7 SIII or FX9 web pages that really goes into detail. Nobody knows what the Hybrid AF system is unless they have seen this slide or are an engineering type brain and can deduct what Sony is talking about when they say, "Hybrid".
Sony should really be publicizng the hell out of this as it is the secret sauce that makes their AF so amazing. I'm not sure what Canon is using in the latest generations of their cameras and I am not sure if Sony could hold a patent that allows them to be the
only ones to utilize this Hybrid layered technology. When I saw this slide, it made total sense as to why it would be superior to any phase detect only AF system, seems strange that Sony doesn't seem to play it up as much as they could. We know the Sony AF
system is probably the best on the market in 2020, but few know WHY it is the best.
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Bassman2003
Veteran
Thanks for posting the BMX screen grabs. They look better than the original video I watched on YouTube. In the end, it seems the A7SIII can look very nice if you know how to make it look nice with skill or tools. Without this treatment it appears to look like a lot of other Sony cameras that came before. I am struggling with the present Cartel jigsaw puzzle that has been created for hybrid shooters. The Sony has all of the goods but I need to see more footage to get past the motion look. If I can see enough that does not look like 'real-time' video then I can get behind it. But the great looking Manny Ortiz footage that reminded my of televisions in stores set to 240 Hz is not my favorite. Imho, Sony cameras have often had this look in the past. We will see as there is still some to be learned about this round of cameras.
https://www.sony.com.sg/electronics/support/articles/00020823
This is six years old. I assume processors have gotten a lot better since then.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Has anyone else noticed how the A7SIII shoots 4K120p in 280Mbps H.265?
Whereas the R5 shoots 4K120p at 1880Mbps?
Aside from the fact that the R5 quickly overheats in 4K120p, that bitrate is unwieldy.
Now, it's no advantage if the A7SIII 120p looks like crap. But what I've seen looks good. And if H.265 needs half the data of H.264, and long-GOP needs half the data of all-I, then 280Mbps H.265 long-GOP would rival 1120Mbps H.264 all-I.
Unlimited 4K120p to SD cards with simultaneous proxy recording, AUDIO RECORDING, and autofocus is pretty darn groovy
I shoot a lot of corporate/doc b-roll that they want in 60p in case they want to slow-motion something. they also want sound in case they want a pop of natural sound. this could be cool for that
Whereas the R5 shoots 4K120p at 1880Mbps?
Aside from the fact that the R5 quickly overheats in 4K120p, that bitrate is unwieldy.
Now, it's no advantage if the A7SIII 120p looks like crap. But what I've seen looks good. And if H.265 needs half the data of H.264, and long-GOP needs half the data of all-I, then 280Mbps H.265 long-GOP would rival 1120Mbps H.264 all-I.
Unlimited 4K120p to SD cards with simultaneous proxy recording, AUDIO RECORDING, and autofocus is pretty darn groovy
I shoot a lot of corporate/doc b-roll that they want in 60p in case they want to slow-motion something. they also want sound in case they want a pop of natural sound. this could be cool for that
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
This is the main feature on the A7S that makes me think I'll probably pick one up. I shoot a lot of budget high frame rate so 240 is generally the spot we end and with the FS5 through an Odyssey. Being able to have sound and autofocus while shooting with a smaller camera opens up some unique possibilities. still I'll wait till they're out in the wild and I can get my hands on one to test just like every other camera that's coming out.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Here's some superbly shot bike trick A7SIII shooting - https://youtu.be/gFLgMiU1kHM
We saw frame grabs from this video a few pages back in this thread, but with prettier cinematch grading than we see in this edit
We saw frame grabs from this video a few pages back in this thread, but with prettier cinematch grading than we see in this edit
alaskacameradude
Veteran
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or if it is an side effect to the A7Siii release or
the FX9 release, or what. But I've seen numerous Sony F55's on sale on eBay (Buy it Now)
priced at around $7000. Kind of insane honestly. Now that is a whole different world as
far as lenses, accessories, and so on which drive the price up for such things but still.
And lots of others too like the Varicam LT going for quite good prices. Probably at least
somewhat related to the pandemic as the amount of work is down everywhere but if
a person has a bit of cash flow, now might be a really good time to swoop in and buy
something at a great price.....
the FX9 release, or what. But I've seen numerous Sony F55's on sale on eBay (Buy it Now)
priced at around $7000. Kind of insane honestly. Now that is a whole different world as
far as lenses, accessories, and so on which drive the price up for such things but still.
And lots of others too like the Varicam LT going for quite good prices. Probably at least
somewhat related to the pandemic as the amount of work is down everywhere but if
a person has a bit of cash flow, now might be a really good time to swoop in and buy
something at a great price.....
puredrifting
Major Contributor
F55 is a great camera but it is old. It is heavy. It requires a big heavy tripod that costs used more than people spend on a new A7 SIII.
Same with the Varicams, great cameras but the P2 media, ouch. And same story, you need a big, heavy expensive tripod to do a
camera in this class justice. For both cameras, you generally need a really nice, heavy expensive PL mount or EF mount lens to do the camera justice.
i think you are finally seeing that except for certain situations, the older tech has been surpassed by the newer, smaller, lighter weight tech. When I rent
either of those cameras, it's a whole thing, big tripod, batteries, expensive media, expensive lenses. A new camera like a C300 MKIII can do most everything an
F55 or Varicam can. Maybe not quite at the same level, but with a LOT less weight, and money for support, lenses, media.
If people are shooting a feature or episodic today, they're going to usually want an Arri, RED or Venice, not an F555 or a Varicam. If they are doing stuff a few notches
down from those, they probably want a smaller, lighter, newer camera. Not saying they aren't great cameras at an amazingly low cost. But buying one is a commitment in
a way that may or may not work out for people's overall business strategy.
alaskacameradude
Veteran
Yeah, your points about big tripods, batteries and expensive media and lenses is why
I personally would not buy something like that. I don't usually live in that world so
I'm biased towards smaller, lighter gear.
I did just sign a 3 week contract to shoot something (NDA, sorry can't say.)
Basically was just lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. The production
company is sending me a rental FX9 with some G Master Sony lenses to use so
I'll have that for 3 weeks which should be kind of fun to put it through it's paces.
I don't usually have a chance to test out the higher end stuff because of where I live.
Canon EOS C300 Mark III with expansion unit and PL Mount
Body: $10,999
EU-V2 1,599
PM-V1 1,599
------------------
Sub Total $14,197
Similarly equipped (used) Sony PMW-F55
$7,000