FS5: Sony A7R 2 to keep or not to keep

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darcymu

Member
Hi

So I am shooting with a Sony Fs5. I have just updated to the Raw firmware but have not yet purchase an external recorder.
Not sure I have enough work and funds right at this time. I do have acces to an Odyssey 7Q now and then which is why
I paid for the upgrade so that i can start using.

I have also just replaced my stolen 5D mk ii with a sony A7Rii which I am really liking but not sure how much I will use
for video production. I could use for a secoond camera, which I have done a couple of times, but in the end, it may not be so much.

I had a thought last night to perhaps unload the A7Rii while it is worth something and use this money to buy
an Odyssey 7Q or Atomos Shogun Inferno. And then if I get enough for the sony body and MBA, I might even
have enough leftover for an older DSLR or something to shoot stills or use a second camera.

Does this sound like a crazy idea? I really would like an external recorder for my FS5 and this is one way that I could
pay for it and then buy a lesser expensive DSLR.

And thoughts on the Odyssey vs Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Thanks

Darcy

www.darcymuenchrath.com
 
darcymu said:
Hi

So I am shooting with a Sony Fs5. I have just updated to the Raw firmware but have not yet purchase an external recorder.
Not sure I have enough work and funds right at this time. I do have acces to an Odyssey 7Q now and then which is why
I paid for the upgrade so that i can start using.

I have also just replaced my stolen 5D mk ii with a sony A7Rii which I am really liking but not sure how much I will use
for video production. I could use for a secoond camera, which I have done a couple of times, but in the end, it may not be so much.

I had a thought last night to perhaps unload the A7Rii while it is worth something and use this money to buy
an Odyssey 7Q or Atomos Shogun Inferno. And then if I get enough for the sony body and MBA, I might even
have enough leftover for an older DSLR or something to shoot stills or use a second camera.

Does this sound like a crazy idea? I really would like an external recorder for my FS5 and this is one way that I could
pay for it and then buy a lesser expensive DSLR.

And thoughts on the Odyssey vs Atomos Shogun Inferno?

Thanks

Darcy

www.darcymuenchrath.com
Click to expand...

You sir, have a paradoxical Hobson's Choice. Both of your options are viable but at present, not at the same time. You have to ask yourself, which of the two devices:
A. Will you use the most?
B. Make your shooting life easier?
C. Increase your income?

I have both an A7s and A7sII. I love the II as it has internal 4k (such as it is) and has triggering options not available on the original A7s. I use it to pick up Broll and for scenes or shots that would be difficult to achieve due to the footprint of my Fs7. I mostly use the A7sII as a second and often 3rd camera. I pump it all through the 7Q+ with wonderful results.
That said, I could just use a clap stick and still have wonderful results with the A7's.
If your needs lean more towards acquisition codec options and back up recording, then the 7Q+ may be a safe place to land. However, IMO, if you don't get the Apollo options, it becomes a very good monitor that you can record to. The Atomos also has recording capabilities but not sure about their upgrade situation. At least with the Odyssey, you can buy bare bones and upgrade as you get money or feel the need.
On a personal note, I believe I would choose to keep the A7sII and exploit its potential more. It's a wonderful 2nd camera and takes incredible stills as well. I think a 2nd camera on even the most mundane talking head, adds to the overall production value and in the end, may garner you more work...especially if you throw it in for free.
 
If you look at the history of the 7Q+, it's been around for a really long time. When comparing it to the newer Atomos Shogun, it's hard to justify the price. Especially if you have seen the difference in the Atomos monitor.

I have a Shogun Flame and use it a ton. I almost never use it for recording, but it's fantastic for monitoring, managing LUTs, etc. When I hand it to a director, the recorder feature gets me off the hook for handling playback, which is nice.

I would keep your two Sony cameras though. Lots of clients are comfortable with Sony mirrorless as a B-camera. Having something that fits on a small stabilizer, can easily be mounted to a vehicle, etc. makes your kit a lot more versatile than just adding raw recording.
 
Thanks Allen. You make some really good points. One note, I am shooting with the A7rii and not the A7sii. I have read some really good reviews of both the 7Q+ and the Inferno. The former more peopole seem to prefer, however. The one thing that was concerning me a little is the size difference. I am drawn to the Inferno a little due to its more compact size. And there is the price difference. With the Odyssey, I would have to buy the Raw update for Sony which I have heard is almost $1000 US. WHich makes it about $1300 CAD. ANd this on top of a fairly expensive recorder/monitor. I will be trying the Odyssey out on my FS5 in a couple of weeks so will get a sense of how it is then. Looking forward to recording to it in a production type setting and not just shooting run n gun.

But yes, I do like having the A7rii around as a second camera and your point about being more marketable is great as well.

Thank you!!
 
ProfessorU said:
If you look at the history of the 7Q+, it's been around for a really long time. When comparing it to the newer Atomos Shogun, it's hard to justify the price. Especially if you have seen the difference in the Atomos monitor.

I have a Shogun Flame and use it a ton. I almost never use it for recording, but it's fantastic for monitoring, managing LUTs, etc. When I hand it to a director, the recorder feature gets me off the hook for handling playback, which is nice.

I would keep your two Sony cameras though. Lots of clients are comfortable with Sony mirrorless as a B-camera. Having something that fits on a small stabilizer, can easily be mounted to a vehicle, etc. makes your kit a lot more versatile than just adding raw recording.
Click to expand...

Thanks also for some really great points. And you are right, perhaps having the second camera is more valuable for me to have than an external recorder. WHen more work starts coming in, I can add that. VBut this way I have two very good cameras that can work together fairly well.

If I were to go for a monitor soon I would lean toward the Atomos. The revies are good and it is much less money if you look at the raw upgrade you need for the Odyssey. ALmost the same cost as just the monitor itself yes.
 
I've used both Inferno and Odyssey . The Inferno is much better for outside shooting because it is brighter, but I much prefer the Odysse7 as a camera ops monitor because the tools for checking focus, exposure turning on and off LUTs etc are simply way better. They are much more user configurable and are much faster to turn off and on in a second when you just want to check something on set. if they put a bright screen it it would be perfect.
 
darcymu said:
Thanks Allen. You make some really good points. One note, I am shooting with the A7rii and not the A7sii. I have read some really good reviews of both the 7Q+ and the Inferno. The former more peopole seem to prefer, however. The one thing that was concerning me a little is the size difference. I am drawn to the Inferno a little due to its more compact size. And there is the price difference. With the Odyssey, I would have to buy the Raw update for Sony which I have heard is almost $1000 US. WHich makes it about $1300 CAD. ANd this on top of a fairly expensive recorder/monitor. I will be trying the Odyssey out on my FS5 in a couple of weeks so will get a sense of how it is then. Looking forward to recording to it in a production type setting and not just shooting run n gun.

But yes, I do like having the A7rii around as a second camera and your point about being more marketable is great as well.

Thank you!!
Click to expand...

My mistake about which camera you have but my comments stand. Keep the camera and make more use of it. As far as Atomos or Odyssey, full disclosure...I have been a Convergent fan since the Nano Flash days and have a wonderful relationship with them so I am somewhat prejudiced. That said, the 7Q+ is pricey but packs a punch. One of my main uses is for multicamera recording. Being able to record up to 4 sources with a common time code and all the same codec makes my editor smile. But as I mentioned in my previous comments, you can just use a simple clap board for syncing or post programs like Plural Eyes to achieve easy lip sync from multi sources. Apples and Oranges? Maybe but I feel you on the expense side. As I mentioned if you are using no more than 2 camera sources then perhaps the Atomos is your better choice. Remember however, that if you use the Shogun or the like as a recording source for the A7r, then you loose the backup recording capability the 7Q+ offers. With the Odyssey you have up to 4 source recording thus allowing back up recording to the cameras internal acquisition.
 
darcymu said:
And thoughts on the Odyssey vs Atomos Shogun Inferno?
Click to expand...

The real question is why do you want either one? What do you hope to achieve with an external recorder that can't be done internally? I think once you have a chance to do some testing with the borrowed 7Q+ you will find that there is very little reason to bother with an external recorder at all when you own an FS5. I own and FS5 and a 7Q+ and I never use them together.
 
No problem Allen. And it does make sense, as you mentioned, to keep both cameras. Having had some good feedback here and thinking more about it, I have come to realize I would, likely, regret getting rid of it. It is a great little camera that offers me much.
With regards to the 7Q+, I am looking forward to playing with it and it does like the better choice in many ways. One of which is being able to record 4 different devices to it.
 
Hi, Doug.
I guess I was thinking it would make me more marketable in some ways. Having the ability to record a much better 4k image. I have mostly been doing run and gun doc type work, which I really enjoy, but have been wanting to explore more of the scrtipted narative production type stuff. Not that the FS5 is at all a production camera, but for the gigs I would be shooting based on my level of experience right now, I somehow felt it would be a good tool to have? Ideally I would like to be using other cameras but may not have the budgets for these until I really hone my caraft and become a more recognized cinematographer/DOP.
Does this make sense? Perhaps I am thinking about it all wrong but quite honestly, I am not so much a gear guy and get a little overwhelmed with all of this. When all I want to do is shoot. And I come to this game kinda late. Have been shooting for quite a few years but only recently, I have decided to make the transtion from graphic desgin and illustration to video. And at 50 even. ;)

BTW. Great FS5 tutorial. It helped a whole lot with getting to know and using this camera.

Darcy
 
Since the FS5 records 4k UHD internally already, I think keeping the A7Rii would potentially make you more viable by being able to offer two camera shoot possibilities , versus being able to offer a stronger codec via external recorder. Plus the A7Rii is such a great still camera. Unless you need a bigger monitor or features the external recorders add.
 
darcymu said:
Hi, Doug.
I guess I was thinking it would make me more marketable in some ways. Having the ability to record a much better 4k image.
Click to expand...

Darcy,

You may have hit on a good reason to use an external recorder because 4K on the FS5 is only 8-bit. That's okay for REC709 shooting, but less than ideal for S-LOG. So if you're going to shoot 4K and S-LOG, then the recorder might be worth it. But it's too bad you didn't ask for advice before buying the FS5 because you could have gotten an FS7 for less cost than an FS5+recorder. And then you'd have a vastly superior camera that offers a ton of features and functions that are not even available on the FS5, plus the convenience of 10-bit 4K without mounting a bunch of awkward accessories.

Thank you for the compliments on my FS5 tutorial video.
 
Hi Doug,

Sorry for the delay. Yes, that is true. At the end of the day I should have perhaps bought the FS7, but I really lioke the size of the FS5 and my goal
is to be doing more run and gun tyope shooting with it and g4etting more gigs traveling with it. The size is perfect.

Thanks much for the feedback.

Darcy
 
Doug Jensen said:
The real question is why do you want either one? What do you hope to achieve with an external recorder that can't be done internally? I think once you have a chance to do some testing with the borrowed 7Q+ you will find that there is very little reason to bother with an external recorder at all when you own an FS5. I own and FS5 and a 7Q+ and I never use them together.
Click to expand...

Doug makes a good point however one lone fly in the ointment is recording time. I agree that too much is made of secondary recording when in fact camera companies spend millions in R&R to achieve the highest possible via internal recording but there are times when you will be recording longer than 29 minutes at which point the A7s and the like, stops recording with no notice. It's a heat processing issue I believe. If you are fastidious enough to be mindful of recording time and call for a cut and then re-start, you are golden. But if you are like me and forget because the interview is engaging or whatever, then you will lose part of the Bcam interview. Using an ancillary recording not only offers a longer record time from your DSLR source, but offers a back up. As I mentioned before, I am a fan of the Odyssey 7Q+ because of it's multicam recording capabilities. You have no idea how much my editor appreciates my giving her compatible sources with matching TC. They require almost 0 time to sync. And now the Odyssey has an update which includes DNxHD, which is the Avid codec. That coupled with ProRes 422 Proxy, which in effect is ProRes at 50mbs, make the Odyssey a useful tool. If recorded XAVC, it would be nirvana but me thinks that will never happen. It's a Sony thing I believe...but I don't know that.
For those times when you need double system recording as when using a DSLR as solo camera, the unit again proves indispensable.
However as also mentioned, the O7Q+ is pricey, albeit packed with features. There are cheaper recorders that may serve your purpose just as well and if budget is a constraint, should be explored.
But I stand behind my original assertion that keeping the little guy and using it on even the most mundane talking head can add a ton of free production value. And as also mentioned, the little guys make great Broll camera and prove very useful in confined space shooting like in a car or on a boat.
Again clap sticks for sync so your Acam becomes the master audio, is a no brainer in post world.
 
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Who could have imagined just five years ago the many equipment options and capabilities we'd have at our fingertips today? Amazing times we live in. Young people just coming into the business have no idea how lucky they are.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Who could have imagined just five years ago the many equipment options and capabilities we'd have at our fingertips today? Amazing times we live in. Young people just coming into the business have no idea how lucky they are.
Click to expand...

Amazing times indeed. For very little coinage, one can have all the tools needed to do quality work if one has the talent. People are doing amazing things with stupid iPhones not to mention DSLR's.
I do miss the days when codec was unheard of however. All we had to deal with was it 16 or 35mm. Always 24fps. Framing for TV or motion pictures was the only other camera option to deal with and of course film stock.
Jerry Lewis threw the first monkey wrench into the mix when he invented Video Assist.
Keeping up is the hardest part IMO!
 
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