Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbits
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Zack Birlew
Veteran
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
So, no DVCPRO-HD 50mbps on tape? Only exppensive P2 cards and no option for recording it onto tape? WTF?! Well, this camera will go on my "To Buy Later"-list if that's how things turn out.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
So, no DVCPRO-HD 50mbps on tape? Only exppensive P2 cards and no option for recording it onto tape? WTF?! Well, this camera will go on my "To Buy Later"-list if that's how things turn out.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, first of all, let's keep in mind that there is only *one source* who knows anything reliable, and she ain't talking. So anything posted anywhere has got to be taken with a grain of salt.
Secondly, it said DVCPRO-HD at 50mbps -- never heard of that. I doubt it. DVCPRO-HD is 100 megabits. If they do only run at 720/30p, I guess an argument can be made to say that the recording on card would then only have to be 50mbps... but I don't know that I would believe that for a second, not until Jan confirms or denies it. Third, they're claiming that the camera also does 1080i? 720p and 1080i in the same camera? That's... well, that's the first I've heard of anything remotely anything like that. That would be an absolutely stunning development, if true -- then the FX1/Z1 would have *no advantage* whatsoever in imaging capability. Is it true? Is it hogwash? Who knows? Maybe they're just saying that it can upconvert 720p to 1080i...
Like I say, there's only one person who knows, and she ain't talking, not until April 18th (or whenever NAB starts).
Just everyone keep in mind that it's all rumor and speculation at this point, nobody knows anything factual or concrete except for the very few things Jan has confirmed: 24p, DVCPRO-HD, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO, P2 recording capability, and priced competitive with the Sony. Any comment other than that is unconfirmed speculation.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, first of all, let's keep in mind that there is only *one source* who knows anything reliable, and she ain't talking. So anything posted anywhere has got to be taken with a grain of salt.
Secondly, it said DVCPRO-HD at 50mbps -- never heard of that. I doubt it. DVCPRO-HD is 100 megabits. If they do only run at 720/30p, I guess an argument can be made to say that the recording on card would then only have to be 50mbps... but I don't know that I would believe that for a second, not until Jan confirms or denies it. Third, they're claiming that the camera also does 1080i? 720p and 1080i in the same camera? That's... well, that's the first I've heard of anything remotely anything like that. That would be an absolutely stunning development, if true -- then the FX1/Z1 would have *no advantage* whatsoever in imaging capability. Is it true? Is it hogwash? Who knows? Maybe they're just saying that it can upconvert 720p to 1080i...
Like I say, there's only one person who knows, and she ain't talking, not until April 18th (or whenever NAB starts).
Just everyone keep in mind that it's all rumor and speculation at this point, nobody knows anything factual or concrete except for the very few things Jan has confirmed: 24p, DVCPRO-HD, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO, P2 recording capability, and priced competitive with the Sony. Any comment other than that is unconfirmed speculation.
SimonMW
Member
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, Jan did say on DVinfo that DVCproHD cannot be recorded onto MiniDV tape because it just isn't up to the job.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if this new camera was DV25 out of the box, but can record DVCpro50 and HD by adding the P2 cards. This is where I think the under $10,000 price thing comes in. I think that the camera itseld may well retail for $4000 or thereabouts, but the P2 cards will cost users another $4000 odd so that they can record HD.
I don't see much wrong with that (other than the price of P2) because it does at least mean that Panasonic are not sacrificing bitrates just to get the footage onto a tiddly little tape.
Even HD at $10,000 is cheap. Plus despite the expense, imagine the benefits you'll have when it comes to editing with P2 over the Z1's tape transfer!
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, Jan did say on DVinfo that DVCproHD cannot be recorded onto MiniDV tape because it just isn't up to the job.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if this new camera was DV25 out of the box, but can record DVCpro50 and HD by adding the P2 cards. This is where I think the under $10,000 price thing comes in. I think that the camera itseld may well retail for $4000 or thereabouts, but the P2 cards will cost users another $4000 odd so that they can record HD.
I don't see much wrong with that (other than the price of P2) because it does at least mean that Panasonic are not sacrificing bitrates just to get the footage onto a tiddly little tape.
Even HD at $10,000 is cheap. Plus despite the expense, imagine the benefits you'll have when it comes to editing with P2 over the Z1's tape transfer!
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Good point, SimonMW. We can all continue using the "HDX" as a MiniDV upgrade to the DVX with native 16x9 to do any "regular" work for DVD or the web, but if we need it to, can also shoot in HD for stuff destined to be distributed in broadcast HD or theatrical release.
Choice is good. If you want HD, you can now get it for "under $10,000". If not, then don't pay for the P2 cards. Sounds reasonable to me.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Good point, SimonMW. We can all continue using the "HDX" as a MiniDV upgrade to the DVX with native 16x9 to do any "regular" work for DVD or the web, but if we need it to, can also shoot in HD for stuff destined to be distributed in broadcast HD or theatrical release.
Choice is good. If you want HD, you can now get it for "under $10,000". If not, then don't pay for the P2 cards. Sounds reasonable to me.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Doesn’t seem like the most reliable of posts, in any case. “Friend of a friend” stuff; “I know more but I can’t tell” . . . well, you told that much, so why not?
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Doesn’t seem like the most reliable of posts, in any case. “Friend of a friend” stuff; “I know more but I can’t tell” . . . well, you told that much, so why not?
SimonMW
Member
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Sure, but speculation is interesting.
We know that MiniDV tape would never cope with DVCproHD, but we do know that the new camera has P2. So it seems a reasonable assumption.
DVCproHD, with the possibility of attaching an anamorphic lens on the front of an already 16:9 picture at those kinds of datarates will be fantastic for film out even if it does cost $10,000 to do it. I don't like the cost of P2, but I'll be honest and say that this is the kind of camera that indies have been waiting for. Not the FX1 or Z1.
Course Panasonic could come along and throw water over my speculation, but Jan (an official Panasonic rep) has already said that it WILL record DVCproHD and 50 as well as standard DVCpro. So already we know it will do HD resolution at 100m/bit rates. That in itself is a huge, huge revolution/evolution in the indie moviemaking world.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Sure, but speculation is interesting.
We know that MiniDV tape would never cope with DVCproHD, but we do know that the new camera has P2. So it seems a reasonable assumption.
DVCproHD, with the possibility of attaching an anamorphic lens on the front of an already 16:9 picture at those kinds of datarates will be fantastic for film out even if it does cost $10,000 to do it. I don't like the cost of P2, but I'll be honest and say that this is the kind of camera that indies have been waiting for. Not the FX1 or Z1.
Course Panasonic could come along and throw water over my speculation, but Jan (an official Panasonic rep) has already said that it WILL record DVCproHD and 50 as well as standard DVCpro. So already we know it will do HD resolution at 100m/bit rates. That in itself is a huge, huge revolution/evolution in the indie moviemaking world.
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, I guess I could just buy an external hard drive arrray and record the video with my Alienware laptop from the two P2 cards. What was it? 4gb for 30 seconds to 1 minute? Good for one take each time unless this thing has firewire out or something (not likely though because of 100MBps), I guess.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Well, I guess I could just buy an external hard drive arrray and record the video with my Alienware laptop from the two P2 cards. What was it? 4gb for 30 seconds to 1 minute? Good for one take each time unless this thing has firewire out or something (not likely though because of 100MBps), I guess.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
[quote author=Loki link=board=HDV;num=1108357982;start=0#10 date=02/14/05 at 09:46:53]Jack, Firewire is 400Mbps(50MB/sec)... It could easily handle it
and firewire 800 is 800Mbps....100MB/sec... huge transfer speeds/bandwidth[/quote]
Good point. Screw the P2 cards, and just bring along a laptop hooked up to a 250GB external FW drive. Wouldn't that give you several hours of continuous HD recording? Or am I missing something?
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
[quote author=Loki link=board=HDV;num=1108357982;start=0#10 date=02/14/05 at 09:46:53]Jack, Firewire is 400Mbps(50MB/sec)... It could easily handle it
and firewire 800 is 800Mbps....100MB/sec... huge transfer speeds/bandwidth[/quote]
Good point. Screw the P2 cards, and just bring along a laptop hooked up to a 250GB external FW drive. Wouldn't that give you several hours of continuous HD recording? Or am I missing something?
Zig_Zigman
Well-known member
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
this guy says it records BOTH dvcpro50 and dvcpro_HD at 50 mbps...that strikes me as odd...just a software toggle?
It def would suck if you HAD to have the P2 cards to record anything other than 25bps....Well there will be more net leaks as we go.
This is really the adult version of "shaking the package" at Xmas.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
this guy says it records BOTH dvcpro50 and dvcpro_HD at 50 mbps...that strikes me as odd...just a software toggle?
It def would suck if you HAD to have the P2 cards to record anything other than 25bps....Well there will be more net leaks as we go.
This is really the adult version of "shaking the package" at Xmas.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
I think this comment from SimonMW sounds very reasonable:
"It wouldn't surprise me at all if this new camera was DV25 out of the box, but can record DVCpro50 and HD by adding the P2 cards. This is where I think the under $10,000 price thing comes in."
There has also been mention of a portable hard drive device to offload the P2 cards. This would be similar to using the P2 cards as magazines as we do in film, and "downloading" the film into cans after being shot. This is fine for narrative work and ok for documentary work as the size of these P2 cards increase. I suppose for docos you'd need an assistant to handle this while you shoot. Actually, Panasonic announced such a device a few days ago:
see PANASONIC UNVEILS RUGGED AJ-PCS060 DVCPRO P2 STORE at the bottom
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...toreId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=31651
or here
http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=30722
The press release doesn't have any pictures and says its a 60GB 2.5" (think laptop) hard drive, but doesn't say if its one of the new 60GB 2.5" running at 7200RPM. Maybe the 5400 or even slower is fast enough. Also, the press release doesn't specifically say that this device will handle DVCPRO-HD. Price is a question mark, too.
I think this is a good idea. But I would like to be able to also offload the P2 card onto a Blu-Ray disc. I would rather backup to a 50GB blu-ray disc than unprotected hard drives. Hopefully we will have recordable 50GB blu-ray discs at a reasonable price (under USD$25 each) within a year. But that's just my hope. I remember reading in a Camcorderinfo.com article that Panasonic has plans to come out with a HD blu-ray camcorder (I would guess in mpeg2 or the new mpeg4 AVC). Blu-ray might not be fast enough (35Mbps?) to record DVCPRO50 or DVCPRO-HD in a camera, but it would be a great, cheap backup alternative to tape/hard drive. Especially if they can make a little battery-powered P2/Blu-ray backup recorder for the field.
And I wouldn't pay too much attention to an anonymous post on an internet message board from someone who claims their friend has some inside scoop.
I think this camera will be great. I wonder if they can get a good cheap HD zoom lens to put on it that'll keep up with the pixels. Will have to wait and see. If they do include a miniDV (25Mbps) tape mechanism, I'd be happy just to rent the P2 cards when needed. If camera rental houses are interested in offering them, that is.
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
I think this comment from SimonMW sounds very reasonable:
"It wouldn't surprise me at all if this new camera was DV25 out of the box, but can record DVCpro50 and HD by adding the P2 cards. This is where I think the under $10,000 price thing comes in."
There has also been mention of a portable hard drive device to offload the P2 cards. This would be similar to using the P2 cards as magazines as we do in film, and "downloading" the film into cans after being shot. This is fine for narrative work and ok for documentary work as the size of these P2 cards increase. I suppose for docos you'd need an assistant to handle this while you shoot. Actually, Panasonic announced such a device a few days ago:
see PANASONIC UNVEILS RUGGED AJ-PCS060 DVCPRO P2 STORE at the bottom
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...toreId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=31651
or here
http://www.digitalproducer.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=30722
The press release doesn't have any pictures and says its a 60GB 2.5" (think laptop) hard drive, but doesn't say if its one of the new 60GB 2.5" running at 7200RPM. Maybe the 5400 or even slower is fast enough. Also, the press release doesn't specifically say that this device will handle DVCPRO-HD. Price is a question mark, too.
I think this is a good idea. But I would like to be able to also offload the P2 card onto a Blu-Ray disc. I would rather backup to a 50GB blu-ray disc than unprotected hard drives. Hopefully we will have recordable 50GB blu-ray discs at a reasonable price (under USD$25 each) within a year. But that's just my hope. I remember reading in a Camcorderinfo.com article that Panasonic has plans to come out with a HD blu-ray camcorder (I would guess in mpeg2 or the new mpeg4 AVC). Blu-ray might not be fast enough (35Mbps?) to record DVCPRO50 or DVCPRO-HD in a camera, but it would be a great, cheap backup alternative to tape/hard drive. Especially if they can make a little battery-powered P2/Blu-ray backup recorder for the field.
And I wouldn't pay too much attention to an anonymous post on an internet message board from someone who claims their friend has some inside scoop.
I think this camera will be great. I wonder if they can get a good cheap HD zoom lens to put on it that'll keep up with the pixels. Will have to wait and see.
If they do include a miniDV (25Mbps) tape mechanism, I'd be happy just to rent the P2 cards when needed. If camera rental houses are interested in offering them, that is.Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Oh, superb -- so the hard disk P2-reader is true! Excellent! I think this is an even better solution than the FireStore, because the drive isn't tied to the camera -- no need to rely on a relatively fragile firewire connection!
Hope it's affordable, I didn't see any mention of price in the press release. That could be fantastic... each 60gb drive could hold an hour's worth of full-rez 60p or 60i DVCPRO-HD, and if it's true that the camera will only record the individually-discrete frames, it could store two and a half hours of full-rez 24P DVCPRO-HD... most excellent!
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Oh, superb -- so the hard disk P2-reader is true! Excellent! I think this is an even better solution than the FireStore, because the drive isn't tied to the camera -- no need to rely on a relatively fragile firewire connection!
Hope it's affordable, I didn't see any mention of price in the press release. That could be fantastic... each 60gb drive could hold an hour's worth of full-rez 60p or 60i DVCPRO-HD, and if it's true that the camera will only record the individually-discrete frames, it could store two and a half hours of full-rez 24P DVCPRO-HD... most excellent!
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
[quote author=Zig_Zigman link=board=HDV;num=1108357982;start=0#13 date=02/14/05 at 11:01:24]this guy says it records BOTH dvcpro50 and dvcpro_HD at 50 mbps...that strikes me as odd...just a software toggle?
[/quote]
DVCPROHD is 100Mbs, not 50. DVCPRO50 is 50. Where people start to get confused is on the variable frame rate stuff, as the recorder is recording at 60 frames per second, but if out of that 60 frames, at 100Mbs, I am only using 24/60th the data rate does go down once you have done the extraction.
Make sense?
Jan
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
[quote author=Zig_Zigman link=board=HDV;num=1108357982;start=0#13 date=02/14/05 at 11:01:24]this guy says it records BOTH dvcpro50 and dvcpro_HD at 50 mbps...that strikes me as odd...just a software toggle?
[/quote]
DVCPROHD is 100Mbs, not 50. DVCPRO50 is 50. Where people start to get confused is on the variable frame rate stuff, as the recorder is recording at 60 frames per second, but if out of that 60 frames, at 100Mbs, I am only using 24/60th the data rate does go down once you have done the extraction.
Make sense?
Jan
Zig_Zigman
Well-known member
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Thanks, J! It will all make sense once I see the real specs!
;D
Re: Something new from JVC too and more Pana tidbi
Thanks, J! It will all make sense once I see the real specs!
;D
