Some questions from a potential buyer

DeathbedStudios

DeathbedStudios

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So i've been looking into getting the DVX100. I've seen really good footage from one with an SGblade adapter. I'm currently studying Film at Temple and i want to upgrade to a pro camera. Currently i have the Sony HDR-UX10 Handycam, however, i am afraid that the footage produced isn't quite what i want.

Here is the DVX100 footage that i absolutely love:
http://www.vimeo.com/10580204

This video alone pretty much led me to the camera. However, through some research i've done, the camera is not in HD. This concerns me a bit, but is not a major selling point. How would the quality be pending that i create a feature? Also, what should i look for in buying the camera? i noticed that some sellers note that the camera has a certain number of hours used. What does this mean?

Also, is it worth it to purchase a 35mm adapter? I love the look, however, i'm wondering if it's really necessary. I'm also wondering about other equipment, such as sound due to the on board mic not being amazing (as with most camera's). I'm also wondering if my Sony tripod will work on this camera.

Thanks for the answers or any feedback for the camera.
 
The number of hours used is just an indicator that can be read exactly on a menu. It will give a general idea of the wear on the heads and so forth - The DVX100B is known to be a workhorse camera and a lot of deals can be found with low hours on the heads- I've seen a bunch with less than 250, and they can go well up to over 1000. You want to make sure the glass is clean and scratch free, for sure check the firewire port, audio jacks - I believe a couple of Sundance Award winners were done with DVX audio straight up - with good mics of course.
What is your budget?
Some people might say to get a VDLSR - and you can get more "cinematic" footage and you might learn a lot of techniques with them. I always say to pair a VDLSR with at least a good HD cosumer camera and you'll have more versatility and avoid the shortcomings of each system. Would like to hear your budget though to really suggest something!
The VDLSR also eliminates the need of a 35mm adapter
 
OK here's a few choices other than a DVX - which you easily have the budget for.

1.HMC40 - 72060, 30 and 24P 1080 30P 24P Great sharp HIGH Def images, just about all of the image adjustments of a DVX - gamma curves, coring, detail etc. Totally tapless and comes with a great bonus Edius HD sotware. CONS Not great in low light, more menu driven, less actual dials and buttons, very deep dof because of the 1/4" sensors. price $1689 at B and H
2.Used XHA1 - Great images and can be adjusted to infinity - gamma, pedestal, coring, detail, color. XLR audio inputs, good in low light with the right settings, great 20x L quality zoom lens can be utilized to get decent shallow DOF/ subject isolation, three rings on lens. CONS- it's used, tape workflow(could be a good thing), not full HD (no big deal here) takes some work to get the best quality. No 720 Est $2000 or less from a couple of users right here in the Marketplace
3. Some sort of high end consumer cam + DLSR (This is what I'm doing with a similar budget)
I got the Canon HFS200 - $675 at B and H and I'm looking at the 60D, T2i, or GH2 for the VDLSR The pros and cons of each camera- HFS200 24p 30p Great quality and resolution, tapeless, touch screen functions are actually very usable, steady cam like OIS. CONS Not great in low light, but you can limit gain to help that, very menu driven, deep dof but if you zoom in you can change that, no 720P, no FULL manual control but it's workable
T2i Pros- great low light,shallow dof and generally "cinematic style" images can be achieved, with the right lenses, full manual control of shutter/aperture, 1080 24P 30P 720 60P(bad aliasing here) Picture profiles can be adjusted and used in video, Magic Lantern hack has added a bunch of features - audio meters/levels zebras focus assists, etc CONs -aliasing and colored moire can occur esp. in wide shots, can overheat, no evf for viewing, stabalization only with lenses that include it, not great audio, etc. T2i with Nifty 50 1.8/ and 18 -135 - about $1000
HFS200 and T2i set up = around $1675
The way I see it the pros and cons of the T2i/60D/GH2 and a video cam like the HFS200 or Panasonic TM700 balance out for a pretty nice set up with lots of creative opportunities, but others might hate 2 cameras.
 
Thanks so much for the feedback.

I am weighing my options right now. I have a higher end HD consumer cam, so i'm wondering if a DSLR would just be more logical. Could you possibly list any pros and cons with the DVX100?
 
Just to give you an idea, I got my DVX with 50hrs for around $1450. I believe Panasonic rates them for 2000hrs. I think the biggest "con" of the DVX is the standard def. It's not that it makes it any less of a camera, but you do have to learn to work with it. When I first bought mine the first thing I shot was the sun setting over forrest. I was sorely disappointed when I saw the grain and lack of detail of the shot. The truth is you have to be careful with your wide shots when shooting standard def. Think about what you want to use the camera for. If your looking to get detailed vistas or capture the crowds of the city, the DVX might not be for you. Though it really shines in closer shots, pointing it wide and shooting will leave you with stuff that doesn't look much better than that of a consumer camcorder. Also, as you research HDSLRs, make sure you figure a basic rig into your budget. A pistol grip and monitor are pretty essential before you can do much.
 
as a producer, i always work backwards.

how do you plan on distributing what you will shoot?

if you are planning on using the web, then a well shot image via a dvx100a/b will be fine.

if you are planning on distributing via dvd, then any hd/hdv footage is going to be compressed when downconverted since all dvd footage is sd.

if you are planning on screening in a large venue, giant hotel screens or monster sized plasmas then maybe hd/hdv footage will be needed.

of course, if this screening will be sourced from a dvd and you are back at sd footage and the dvx100a/b will be fine.

see where i am headed?

short of having footage acquired by a national broadcaster who will insist on a hd standard or presented via blu-ray at a large venue, a dvx100a/b is a great next camera.

here in the metro nyc area, low hour dvx100s are selling on craigslist for less than $1k.

there are many ways to shoot.

no one camera is everything.

each camera is a tool to be used.

enjoy the process, the results will follow.

ymmv

be well

rob
 
Also DVX footage can be uprezzed and I've seen some great looking footage, plus it's easy to edit mini dv. There are a lot of good reasons to go with a DVX, but I thought since you are a film student a VDLSR could add to the types of shots you would be able to use in your work. A lot of people compare them to modern day 16mm. The resolution isn't full HD, they essentially shoot without sound (since the sound from them is pretty bad you'd want to do double system) you get to choose your lenses, express shallow dof shots, etc etc
I agree with the others the main cons of a DVX are that it's not HD, and I'll add that it loses resolution in 16:9 aspect since the chips are 4:3. Also, tapeless is pretty great when you're going through your clips - you just select and watch/delete/keep very very fast.
That being said if you don't mind that it's SD or not native 16:9 it should work well for you. If I were you though I'd go to a camera store and at least try a Canon 60D just to see how it feels.Other than a GH2 (which is really hard to find) I think a 60D is the most shooter ready VDLSR. It has an articulating screen, audio level controls, fairly good heft to the body, fair pricing, etc. etc. For your budget you could get the camera, the 18-135 for general shots, well lit shots and a fast lens of some sort for low light. If you want a deep dof shot of something with a lot in focus you could just use the camcorder to avoid the aliasing/moire issue. If you absolutely hate the form factor of the Canon though...don't do it - go DVX and adapter. Keep in mind the VDLSRs really shine on people...so they're great for set up dramatic/narrative character study type work where you're mostly on a tripod or something like that. ENG is where they would be a real pain to use IMO. If you haven't already...check out Phillip Blooms stuff with the Canon T2i/7D or Vincent Laforets site and some of his work with them - pretty inspiring!
 
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Thanks so much for your help guys. I have a bit of thinking I will have to do. I may check out Temple's equipment department to see how the different cameras feel. I feel like that would be a good option.
 
So a bit of an update. I found a DVX100B for sale on craigslist for under 1000. I may get it, and use my camcorder for any large HD shots. Also, i had heard that the DVX uses tapes to record. Is there any way around this? Or must i buy a tape deck? My laptop currently has no firewire ports, so i am concerned about how i can get the footage from the DVX to my computer.
 
You could buy a firestore and bypass the whole tape issue that way. That's probably better than buying a computer with firewire because the workflow would be made much easier with the firestore method.
 
fire stores are good, but do make the cam a lot less portable. There is also the risk of the fire wire cable coming out and your record stopping. I use a firestore for my long lecture shoots when i use a tripod. For any moving shoots i would not recommend. Most fire stores plug into the computer using firewire so it wouldn't work for you anyway. FS3 which is the recommended model for dvx100 uses fire wire only. The hvx 200 gets around this whole problem with USB.
 
Richter Video Equipment said:
fire stores are good, but do make the cam a lot less portable. There is also the risk of the fire wire cable coming out and your record stopping. I use a firestore for my long lecture shoots when i use a tripod. For any moving shoots i would not recommend. Most fire stores plug into the computer using firewire so it wouldn't work for you anyway. FS3 which is the recommended model for dvx100 uses fire wire only. The hvx 200 gets around this whole problem with USB.
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The newer ones use USB or record to CFmedia so Yes it would work for him. The FS-5 and FS H200....they connect to the camera with firewire but to the computer by other means.
 
@Pulp
The cheapest i found for either of those models on ebay is 700 bucks. That plus the 100b for 1000 dollars is 1700. For not much more he could get an hvx 200 which shoots on p2 and has usb built in. He'd also have the option of buying more p2 int he future and shooting in hd. Not mention, p2 is alot more portable then a firestore. I use both firestore and p2 on my hvx and my experience says the firestore is great for certian events but nothing mobile.
 
Richter Video Equipment said:
@Pulp
The cheapest i found for either of those models on ebay is 700 bucks. That plus the 100b for 1000 dollars is 1700. For not much more he could get an hvx 200 which shoots on p2 and has usb built in. He'd also have the option of buying more p2 int he future and shooting in hd. Not mention, p2 is alot more portable then a firestore. I use both firestore and p2 on my hvx and my experience says the firestore is great for certian events but nothing mobile.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with you on that one! Or a used HMC150 if he wanted to avoid P2 cost...yeah the DVX is a great deal, but if you want tapeless not so much (same with the XHA1)
 
the 150 isn't a bad choice...it is limiting though. Sd media is cheaper then p2, but int he long run I'd buy a 200 over the 150. The 150 is a consumer grade cam while the 100, 170 or 200 are prosumer grade. The 200 is gonna be about the same price since its a lot more popular. You can get them used at a decent price.
 
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