Some basic questions about the 7d

K

Kamizanate

Active member
Hello, I am still on the fence about the GH1 and 7d. I have some questions that will certainly influence my decision.

1. Does the Canon 7d use AVCHD as well? Or will it shoot to a format that is supposedly less susceptible to problems with fast moving subjects?

2. Will the 7d have the option for a C-mount adapter? Or will I have to use only the much more expensive Canon EF lenses?

3. Will the 7d have total manual controls like the GH1?

4. Will the 7d be able to plug into an external monitor for live viewing?

Thanks for the help, everyone!
 
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Kamizanate said:
1. Does the Canon 7d use AVCHD as well? Or will it shoot to a format that is supposedly less susceptible to problems with fast moving subjects?
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It shoots H.264
The issues with fast moving objects on DSLRs have more to do with the rolling shutter of CMOS sensors than the actual recording format (though long form GOP does play a role).

As far as codec goes - while there is something to be said for AVCHD being a more efficient codec than straight H.264, the 7D will have a datarate of around 48mbps (if I'm remembering that right) versus the 17mbps of the GH1, for example.

So I think we'll have to wait and see how it stacks up - though it should be close to what you're seeing from the 5DMKII.

2. Will the 7d have the option for a C-mount adapter? Or will I have to use only the much more expensive Canon EF lenses?
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I'm not sure if C-Mount adapters are available - but I'd be surprised if they weren't.

3. Will the 7d have total manual controls like the GH1?
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From what we've heard so far that seems to be the case.
The 5D had a firmware upgrade that allowed for full manual control, and the 7D should have full manual from the onset.

4. Will the 7d be able to plug into an external monitor for live viewing?
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Yes, but it may not be full 1080p viewing, and the other caveat is that plugging a monitor into the miniHDMI output of the camera will disable the LCD screen on camera.

Thanks for the help, everyone!
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No problem.
:thumbsup:
 
Just found this mentioned on another site in regards to Cmount lenses on Canon bodies:
"No. The back focus distance of C mount video lens is much too short, nevermind the fact that the image circle of C-mount lenses is much smaller than the sensor size."
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But that was in reference to Full Frame sensors - so I'm not certain if it's possible given that the 7D has an APS-C sized sensor.
But from the sounds of it - I wouldn't count on it.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in on this.
 
Even if you could get them to physically attach, which I don't think you can, C-mount lenses will be nigh unto useless on the 7D, unless you're talking about focal lengths of about 50mm or more.
 
Long story short, Canon FD lenses cannot be easily adapted to EF. I'd recommend a set of lenses in the Nikon F mount. The best value will come from Nikon AI or AI-S lenses. The main advantage of Nikon F mount lenses is that they can be adapted to fit cameras from most of the major camera brands, so should you want to get a Nikon DSLR later, you'll be covered. M42 lenses can be easily adapted and easily found, and they are generally cheaper than Nikon lenses, but they aren't as broadly compatible.
 
Is there some sort of crop or skew factor with the FD lenses on the EF mount?

And, do the Nikon F lenses adapt without any such distortion?
 
Luis Caffesse said:
As far as codec goes - while there is something to be said for AVCHD being a more efficient codec than straight H.264
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I'm not sure what you mean here. There's no such thing as "straight H.264." The quality of a codec varies from implementation to implementation. It's as true for H.264 generally as it is for AVCHD specifically.

The GH1 has what most people consider to be the worst AVCHD implementation for a current-generation camera on the market. It lacks B-frames and who-knows-what other optimizations. On paper, it looks very similar to the 7D's codec (which also lacks B-frames), except that it has a much lower bit rate.
 
ydgmdlu said:
I'm not sure what you mean here. There's no such thing as "straight H.264." The quality of a codec varies from implementation to implementation. It's as true for H.264 generally as it is for AVCHD specifically.
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You're right - I was just trying to simplify my statement while still acknowledging in some shorthanded way that AVCHD utlitzed MPG4/H.264 compression (and many will claim that AVCHD as a codec is more efficient than Canon's implementation of H.264 on their cameras).

But obviously that all depends on the specific implementation of the codec on the specific cameras in question.


I just got lazy.
:)
 
Kamizanate said:
Is there some sort of crop or skew factor with the FD lenses on the EF mount?

And, do the Nikon F lenses adapt without any such distortion?
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The problem is flange focal distance (FFD). If one mount has a shorter FFD than another mount, then a simple mechanical adapter can be made for the former from lenses for the latter. The FFD of Canon EF is longer than Canon FD, therefore it won't work.

You can find FD to EF adapters, but you'll only get one of two results:

1. One kind of adapter is a simple mechanical adapter. It turns the FD lens into a macro lens. At best, you lose infinity focus for longer focal lengths. At worst, you'll only be able to focus a distances of few feet or a few inches for shorter focal lengths. I have a Canon FD 35mm lens that I got for my GH1. I also bought an adapter for my 5D. On the 5D, I can only focus around a foot or less in front of the lens, and I can only focus a distance of mere inches before everything goes out of focus again.

2. Another kind of adapter has a glass element that enables infinity focus, but the glass will significantly degrade the image. It's not worth it. Just buy Nikon or M42 lenses.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
(and many will claim that AVCHD as a codec is more efficient than Canon's implementation of H.264 on their cameras).
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Well, it'll get claimed because it's obviously true. PH mode is way more efficient, delivering a more solid picture at 21mbps than the 5D ekes out of 40mbps, and probably better than the 7D gets out of 47mbps.

But obviously that all depends on the specific implementation of the codec on the specific cameras in question.
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Yep. Too bad it has to be that way, but it is -- the 13mbps on an HMC70 is way more robust than the 17mbps on a GH1.

Just goes to show you, that once again, you can NEVER judge anything just off of comparing numbers! You have to know what else is involved. Annoying, but ... it's the way it is.
 
So Barry your saying the GH1 produces a superior and more stable image over the 5d or potentially 7d? I am mostly concerned with the stability under color grading. I was very pleased with the image I could achieve with the gh1 but I didnt feel like it was getting the same quality as the results I am seeing with the 5d. My biggest beef however were the workarounds and transcoding required to edit the footage in FCP. I know there are 1 stop applications but to cut the 24p footage I was transcoding to prores and then exporting in compressor to 24p, so it became very tedious and time consuming. Losing that process alone is worth switching to the 7d for me as long as the image is at least as good as stable and hopefully better.
 
FD lens on 7d warning

FD lens on 7d warning

As a person with a FD lens collection let me tell you that FD lenses will mount on the &d but the only way to get focus to infinity is with an optical element in the adapter. The people who have these adapters say it degrades the image. Without the optical element the FD lenses work only as macro lenses and with near focus.
 
tony240sx said:
So Barry your saying the GH1 produces a superior and more stable image over the 5d or potentially 7d?
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No, I didn't say that at all. I'm saying that PROPERLY-implemented AVCHD, such as is found on the HMC150 or HMC40, is a much superior codec to that found on the DSLRs (which includes the GH1). Even at lower bitrates, such as 21mbps AVCHD, it's bulletproof and I would expect it to outperform the 40mbps of the 5D and probably the 47mbps of the 7D. I'm talking strictly about the codecs involved, and not which cameras they're attached to.

I am mostly concerned with the stability under color grading. I was very pleased with the image I could achieve with the gh1 but I didnt feel like it was getting the same quality as the results I am seeing with the 5d.
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They use the same basic codec, but the 5D has more bandwidth and so should be more robust than the GH1's image.

Losing that process alone is worth switching to the 7d for me as long as the image is at least as good as stable and hopefully better.
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Agreed that ditching the workaround process is very appealing, and is probably the #1 reason I ordered a 7D. And yes, the footage (regarding the codec) should be at least as good as the 5D and ideally it should actually be better since the 7D has more bandwidth allocated.
 
Barry_Green said:
Agreed that ditching the workaround process is very appealing, and is probably the #1 reason I ordered a 7D. And yes, the footage (regarding the codec) should be at least as good as the 5D and ideally it should actually be better since the 7D has more bandwidth allocated.
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This is really what steered me away from the GH1. There's a tremendous amount of hoop jumping involved in the post process, between Neoscene and trying to preserve quality it quickly turned into how to preserve an image through the post pipeline. The lack of pulldown is piece of cake for editing, and it's a nice plus to have the option of shooting PAL if you're overseas. This is like having two cameras in one. :beer:

You could actually argue the 7D is a better deal because of the PAL and NTSC shooting. You'd have to buy two GH1's to get this amount of shooting freedom. I'm hoping Panasonic takes a page out of Canon's book when they design their GH2.
 
Oh I see Barry. I thought you were talking about avchd as implimented in the gh1. I agree that the codec is solid when done right. I have no problems with my hmc150 footage at all and I love the stability. The gh1 unfortunately didn't hold up as well and like I said the workarounds were just a major pain for me. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
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