Sold my FS7 today

I didn't mean the images from my Lumix G8 (8-bit) looks better than the FS7. But the image quality is good enough. My expectations of the FS7 image quality were higher when I bought it. The FS7 is a very capable camera wit ND and XLR, and it looks 'professional'. But I missed the 'wow' factor to often. But maybe this camewra wasn't made to deliver that kind of images. (or I wasn't able to get stunning images from it.) Could it be the video-look, the magenta, the tweaking in Davinci? I sold the camera to a news team, I think it will shine there.

The lumix always was the B-cam, I could match them well in Davinci. That is why I decided to sell the FS7 and keep the Lumix. A lot lighter and smaller. I don't need XLR because mini jacks work too.

But the good news is, I sold two bags of gear, have money in the bank and new space in my office. And I can keep doing the things I did.
 
I've made stuff look good with an FS7. I have also made stuff look awful with an FS7. Just like any camera, the operator/DOP needs to do the heavy lifting and not rely on the camera to magic you up a good result. The camera is just there to capture what you do before you start turning over.

It was an absolute game-changer when it came out and it's only recent developments that date it.

The raw output was terrible and the shadow detail wasn't great. Highlight rolloff wasn't the best. But that's only ever comparing it to more expensive cameras. Never cheaper ones.

RIP sweet prince of a camera.
 
scorsesefan said:
I know this is going to be a question that goes off the rails quickly, but do you think the FX6/FX9 are more "cinematic" cameras than the FS7? By that I mostly mean DR, highlight rolloff and color science...Interestingly, I found this FX9/FX6 test online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVjPrLkv63o
Click to expand...

FWIW, in my testing I've found that I can get my FX6 and Fs5 to match with almost no effort (provided they're both well exposed). This is shooting in slog3/sgamut3.cine, at least. I did a white balance in post and then used Alister's LUTs (which were also used in this video, per the description) and they looked remarkably close.

The biggest differences (in the limited comparison testing I did) came when trying to bring underexposed shots back to normal/recommended exposure levels—the FX6 blows the Fs5 out of the water. Overexposure wasn't as dramatic, with maybe half a stop more latitude in the FX6.

Whether that's more "cinematic" I can't say, but I've seen some beautiful stuff shot on the Fs5.
 
Ben Scott said:
RIP sweet prince of a camera.
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Hey - Hang On Ben... I'm still using mine regularly - don't bury it yet... I'm not ready to "upgrade" for it's replacement just yet. (unless one considers the A7sIII an "upgrade").

I do find the "color science upgrade" since the first FS7 (which I guess the Fs5, FX9, FX6 & A7sIII all "got") - a rather thin one. Not saying that Sony didn't tweak it's colors a bit... but IMO - it was such a small tweak - that I giggle everytime I read how much better the colors are now. (two nodes on a hue vs sat curve in the edit does just the same).
 
I agree with Ben Scott.

And yes, the A7SIII is a major upgrade...except for the features it lacks...

Incidentally, I still feel like Sony color sucks in most profiles, including s-log3 standard LUT. But then there's one color setting on the a7siii called "Movie". I really like it, moreso than canon color. But everything else I've seen from it blows
 
ahalpert said:
I agree with Ben Scott.

And yes, the A7SIII is a major upgrade...except for the features it lacks...

Incidentally, I still feel like Sony color sucks in most profiles, including s-log3 standard LUT. But then there's one color setting on the a7siii called "Movie". I really like it, moreso than canon color. But everything else I've seen from it blows
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Abe, you think slog3 cine and s cinetone suck on the a7siii? Or are you referring to the FS7?
 
scorsesefan said:
Abe, you think slog3 cine and s cinetone suck on the a7siii? Or are you referring to the FS7?
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A7siii. I think you can get good results from slog3 cine, I think it maybe just requires work? Or maybe I'm just reacting to footage I've shot and seen that had difficult colors to reproduce. Or colors that didn't reproduce well from that gamut with the standard lut. But I've never felt that way about movie color. Somehow "movie" color manages to look both accurate and pretty.

S Cinetone I haven't tried. I was excited about it. But I saw some stuff that looked videoish and also, more to the point, I realized that I was happier with my array of varied-contrast wysiwyg looks and I was not going to give that up for a single contrast look. Maybe I could add s Cinetone into my quiver of SOOC looks and who knows, maybe I would like it more than my current options. But I haven't bothered.

Mostly I'm reacting to the week I spent testing the A7SIII when I first got it where I tried all the different color profiles available and found them all distasteful. I see that many people alter the color phase (or is it color detail, I can't remember the name) settings to adjust the coloration of a given profile. I played around with that and felt like I could get a good look in one setting and then it would look all wrong when I pointed the camera at something else. And then I thought why would a person do this anyway. You should have a color profile that responds to what the camera sees in a uniform, generalized way

But hey, I'm not a colorist or as technically oriented as someone like doug Jensen. These are just my workaday observations and gut feelings
 
I am 100% done with posting footage or clips on here after the way people have responded in the past, but I have zero issue with the FX6/A7sIII sensor and Slg3/Sgamut3.cine.

I made a LUT based on the S709 LUT with slightly lifted blacks and slightly reduced saturation which I use for monitoring and I couldn't be happier.
 
markfpv said:
Hey - Hang On Ben... I'm still using mine regularly - don't bury it yet... I'm not ready to "upgrade" for it's replacement just yet. (unless one considers the A7sIII an "upgrade").

I do find the "color science upgrade" since the first FS7 (which I guess the Fs5, FX9, FX6 & A7sIII all "got") - a rather thin one. Not saying that Sony didn't tweak it's colors a bit... but IMO - it was such a small tweak - that I giggle everytime I read how much better the colors are now. (two nodes on a hue vs sat curve in the edit does just the same).
Click to expand...

Oh plenty of life in the old dog yet, but it HAS been discontinued which was what my RIP referred to.

Not sure if the colour science has been tweaked or the newer sensors are just capable of more pleasing toe/shoulder rolloff.
 
Abe, I absolutely love Slg3/Sgamut3.cine coming off the a7siii. Such rich and vibrant colors are in there. But color is such a subjective thing. Our brains interpret them in a multitude of ways... I was thinking of your auction house work. I would think you'd use the fs7 for that? Not just for client perception, but IMO the fs7 has a somewhat neutral color to it....
 
So Ive moved to my C200 and R6.
I could sell the FS7 - its probably worth very little being well used.

And the more I dont have to rely on the FS7 the better it becomes. The FS7 was a pain to get moving focus, too heavy for a gimbal.. etc

Need a camera to chuck on a car bonnet..? FS7! ND fix the focus using punch in on the no batteries monitor.
Wide from the back of a show.. again no focus pulling the little monitor is fine

Unlike a DSLR its got ND, its got a hole for mains power .. its got a screen you can see from the front.

it does 50p4k, its got XLR

I mean soon Ill be doing an interview - ill use the R6 and its face track.. but the audio and wide? Ill do them with the FS7.

The FS7 is so so so much better in many situations than the little cameras that forgot ND XLR shutter angle and infinite record times.

Oh and there is my mirrorbox/autocue which is fast to set with a dedicated camera.
 
scorsesefan said:
Abe, I absolutely love Slg3/Sgamut3.cine coming off the a7siii. Such rich and vibrant colors are in there. But color is such a subjective thing. Our brains interpret them in a multitude of ways... I was thinking of your auction house work. I would think you'd use the fs7 for that? Not just for client perception, but IMO the fs7 has a somewhat neutral color to it....
Click to expand...

I think the colors of a7siii are rich and thick. most of the time I shoot slog3, I am sending it to other people to grade. But there was one time I remember that I shot and graded slog3 where the bright reds came off really sickly looking and not as they had in reality, I'll post the example later. And I saw some samples of slog3 I shot recently that the client sent me to express appreciation, and I thought there was some green in the midtones of the skin.

The auction house owns an FS7 and A7SII and I use their FS7 for interviews etc. I use my A7SIII and gimbal for gimbal stuff. I guess the FS7 is neutral... sometimes it seems inaccurate to me, especially in the reds. And I think that the interviews they shoot on the C300mk2 look better. As an editor for them, I receive both FS7 and C300mk2 stuff that is shot similarly.

With "movie" color on the A7SIII, I feel like I can look through the EVF and then pull my eye out and the scene looks exactly the same. I think the A7SIII is plenty neutral?
 
I haven't noticed any color issues with the a7siii. According to Alister C the big improvements from the fs7 to the new cinema line are in the red channel... I'll have to try out "movie" mode on the A7SIii
 
ahalpert said:
I think the colors of a7siii are rich and thick. most of the time I shoot slog3, I am sending it to other people to grade. But there was one time I remember that I shot and graded slog3 where the bright reds came off really sickly looking and not as they had in reality, I'll post the example later. And I saw some samples of slog3 I shot recently that the client sent me to express appreciation, and I thought there was some green in the midtones of the skin.

The auction house owns an FS7 and A7SII and I use their FS7 for interviews etc. I use my A7SIII and gimbal for gimbal stuff. I guess the FS7 is neutral... sometimes it seems inaccurate to me, especially in the reds. And I think that the interviews they shoot on the C300mk2 look better. As an editor for them, I receive both FS7 and C300mk2 stuff that is shot similarly.

With "movie" color on the A7SIII, I feel like I can look through the EVF and then pull my eye out and the scene looks exactly the same. I think the A7SIII is plenty neutral?
Click to expand...

Why not shoot a chart with both cameras and compare the waveforms?
 
Publimix said:
You think XLR is a must? much better than mini jack? (in my case very short cables, receiver on camera.)
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Well my mic sanken CS1 requires 48v power. As for the physical robust.. well XLR seems better but to be fair Ive never used minijack for critical audio.

I dont like receivers.. too many things to go wrong. minc - wire - camera thats what I like

If the C200 is tied up (on the gimbal) and I need to get some chatter.. well Im not reliant on the R6 when there is an FS7 knocking about. Yes I have a sound recorder buy the fs7 is a sound recorder that will do a second angle in any light level.. very handy.

Also even the 4k codec feels light compared to canon raw - I only have 45mins of card for that right now. We did some driving where (with no functional pre record) and me not knowing whats around the next corner long rolls were required - here the 7 beat the c200 too.
 
Publimix said:
You think XLR is a must? much better than mini jack? (in my case very short cables, receiver on camera.)
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Yes. Now you can argue that it depends on the market you serve, but in my world, full-sized XLR’s rule the roost, so to speak. It’s what the vast majority of all of our audio equipment is based around.

Mini-XLR(TA3) has been gaining traction and is balanced, reasonably robust and has a locking connecting, but it’s still not ‘the standard’.
 
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