so why wait for RED?

[D_and_G]

The original poster made points about true 4k output, then theres comments about DOWNconverting to other formats, if Im just going to DOWNconvert then red isnt for me, with the associated costs.

So you don't shoot anything that isn't outputted to a 4K resolution ? Lucky you.

I do envy the people that can afford red right now with the kit to support it, dont get me wrong. But this is certainly not the Independent film makers format budget of say the XL h1 or HVX. Which are both TRUE HD! True HD in the 1/3" chip sense.

A fully equipped HVX package shouldn't be too far away from a basic RED setup. Of course, if renting a full set of master primes or buying a Cooke S4 zoom is your "basic", then the comparison is moot.

Sorry have to add someone mentioned the HVX film out wasnt to their expectation as far as quality goes... thats a fair point as far as asthtics go but the number of succesful film outs from SD is as long as your arm (longer actually - just like that saying).

That was me

I can't accomplish the aesthetics I need for filmout with the HVX, and the distributors who saw the film out with me weren't impressed either. Sacrificing artistically is one thing, but doing so business-wise is too risky. The few high concept films that go theatrical (out of the thousands that don't) , or a few celebrity digital projects scattered about, do not a market make. Whatever arm you want to measure by.

I can make money with RED. I think. The price to performance ratio is there, and the modularity + perception is there. And my company has always rented, so it's not about 'ownership' per se. It's about art and profitability. Although, all this talk about the performance and market efficacy of a camera that isn't even on the market yet, is a wee bit odd, I must say. I know it's real, but I'm beggining to feel like I'm talking about a unicorn. :beer:

I think Jim said it best :

We are building a 4k camera that can shoot REDCODE RAW at 27MB/sec and be converted to just about anything with REDCINE. The main advantage is 35mm DOF, great noise (lack of) properties and a price that seems a bargain for what you get.

RED # rebel with a clue

 

[robroysyd]

I think many of the points that SomewhereinLA makes are quite valid. Incorrectly it's being assumed they're specific to the RED but they're not. The DI workflow is still far from perfect regardless if the source is scanned film or any digital film camera. Just being able to handle the codec(s) is an almost trivial part of the problem. At the moment every post house has different calibration, different LUTs etc.
With optically printed film every DOP knows what'll happen to the print if he calls for 2 points more yellow, the same cannot be said with a DI.
So I don't think the point is somuch a RED issue, it's an existing industry issue into which yet another camera / codec is being thrown and that can mean a new set of variables to be dealt with. No doubt as the industry gets it's act togther RED will fall into line but that'll take some time. Just looking at several recent prints that have been handled through DIs I've seen some really 'out there' results and this is from guys with serious amounts of money to throw around.
Let's face it RED isn't really the start of a revolution, it's a big push in the revolutionary transition from film to digital but it needs to be remembered that to date this revolution is still a work in progress and cameras form only part of it. It took film decades to develope a stable workflow, the transition to a smooth digital workflow could take as long.