FS7: So what IS the OMB ENG solution..

I don't understand why people on these threads feel the need to tell other professionals how to work. Most of us have been doing this a long long time. Sam has good reason to want whatever the heck he wants. If you want to shoot a doc on primes - may god be with you but don't tell me I have to.

More to the point - I'm hoping to borrow a friends new 18-110 to play with this week and if I get a chance I'll compare both to the 18-200 ( it better be better) and the Canon 17-120.
 
Yes but sorry a large sensor camera is probably the worst choice for that kind of Job- this is a classic 2/3 inch ENG with a WA Lens +Doubler job.


morgan_moore said:
OK British Athletics. Running races. The winner will cross the line with arms aloft, you need a 200ish for this shot ideally HFR, they then take 8-10 steps into the pit and hug someone or collapse on the floor right at the feet of the operator, people crowd round them, you need a 14 and sharp elbows for this shot - you then hit them with 'tell me about your run' on a 20 - and you hit them with the question while they are still completely out of breath, 10 seconds later - speed is all to keep the intensity.

It is not about rolling for a long time - it is that these 3 critical moments happen within 20 seconds of each other.

Doing this event work I actually had a go-pro on the top of my FS7 and actually quite a lot 'made'
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I've said it a million times now - do any affordable 2/3 cameras offer slog hfr and other fs7 goodies and the ability to swap to "art" lenses/dof when the pace slows?

I like to think my work can offer this mix of pace
 
the closest you will get to having your cake and eating it too would be a used super 16 zoom in crop mode.
The canon 8-64mm T2.4 is on the used market they shot hurt locker on it. It will give you a 16-130mm equivalent range and then you can pop on some art lenses. Rent it and try it out you can then find one on the used market for 5-7k.
 
LennyLevy said:
I don't understand why people on these threads feel the need to tell other professionals how to work. Most of us have been doing this a long long time. Sam has good reason to want whatever the heck he wants. If you want to shoot a doc on primes - may god be with you but don't tell me I have to.

More to the point - I'm hoping to borrow a friends new 18-110 to play with this week and if I get a chance I'll compare both to the 18-200 ( it better be better) and the Canon 17-120.
Click to expand...


I didn't as much mind people telling others how to work or how NOT to work as I minded people acting as if there isn't a sh*t-ton of production taking place out there for which the "primes only" / "just zoom with your feet" / "never zoom in-shot" method just doesn't work.

Sure, if you never take, or are never offered, work where a slow in-shot / "on-air" zoom is requested it is easy to be high-minded and "above" performing the lowly and un-cinematic in-shot zoom. But the responses of "just don't do zooms in-shot." and "just zoom with your feet" aren't appropriate or helpful responses to someone looking for advice on which zoom lens is best for the sort of shooting where one cannot just zoom with their feet and in-shot zooms are demanded. It was akin to someone asking advice on a video camera and receiving responses saying "oh, I only shoot film. I would never sink so low as to shoot video. You should only shoot film. I manage to only shoot film thus proving that there is really no need for anyone to shoot video at all ( harumpf )."

-We're all still friends here, correct? Yes? Okay, good to know.-


To end this post on a gear note, check out the shotgun mount I just purchased and received from a German company called "BPM"-


BPM_MIKROFONADAPTER-15MM_1_25547.jpg


I've not seen this available from any other seller or seen anything like it from another maker. And I had never heard of BPM until recently.

The following is the link, but be advised that with the overseas shipping it wasn't cheap. Around $200 in total-

https://www.bpm-media.de/en/ENG-Liv...Microphone-adaptor-for-15mm-rods::371466.html
 
It's the nature of us all congregating in a place where loads of people use the same tools to do vastly different jobs. And it being a slow news day :)
 
Icarus.

Do you have examples of s16 in use - my tests of crop mode (previously linked) and my minimal noodling with a 2/3 Sd lens suggest that using the most sensor that you can render "better" results.

"Better" is of course subjective - to my eye optical aberrations where less invasive than digital aberrations and the optical ones disappeared when one stopped down.
 
morgan_moore said:
I've said it a million times now - do any affordable 2/3 cameras offer slog hfr and other fs7 goodies and the ability to swap to "art" lenses/dof when the pace slows?

I like to think my work can offer this mix of pace
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Sony's Broadcast line is an anachronism. For the life of me I don't understand why there are no 1" or 2/3" cams that shoot 4K SLog3 10 bit XAVC. I would've bought one in an instant for exactly the usage scenario you cite in the Athletics example.

The closest I got was with the FS7 and 18200 but I had to wear a paper bag over my head over my head while in public so it was an obvious limitation.

I can see the gap in the market but how big is that gap? Is the market more or less polarised between broadcast 8 bit small sensor rec709 and large sensor 10bit SLog with only a sliver of interest in the grey area in between?
 
Gentlemen. For your enjoyment.. me noodling with a no glass adapter and a cheap SD lens.

Please dont share as the indy kids will all buy this setup before I do.

I say indy kids because this IMO looks 'cool' even thought it is a complete 'technical fail'

Revisiting Id say that actually S16 mode is probably better, certanly considering the instant access to HFR which is not available in 4k.

When I say 'full frame' I mean 'S35 full scan' - not vistavision.. which confuses young Jack somewhat :)

I made no effort to adjuct backfocus - this test was done in 2 minutes!

https://vimeo.com/208277304 PWD lens

S

https://vimeo.com/208277304
 
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Nirv said:
how big is that gap?
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The gap is tiny.. people making a living from shooting which is 1% of those who shoot the rest being..

-Daddy funded Reds,
Film council funded Alexas
5d art projects
cat/birthday videos

or huge..

wedding/event people
 
morgan_moore said:
Gentlemen. For your enjoyment.. me noodling with a no glass adapter and a cheap SD lens.

Please dont share as the indy kids will all buy this setup before I do.

I say indy kids because this IMO looks 'cool' even thought it is a complete 'technical fail'

Revisiting Id say that actually S16 mode is probably better, certanly considering the instant access to HFR which is not available in 4k.

When I say 'full frame' I mean 'S35 full scan' - not vistavision.. which confuses young Jack somewhat :)

I made no effort to adjuct backfocus - this test was done in 2 minutes!

https://vimeo.com/208277304 PWD lens

S

https://vimeo.com/208277304
Click to expand...

Looks like a Dog Schidt lens to me.

Indie kids would laugh rather than waste their pocket money on that setup. They'd be shooting on their A7x on a cheap Chinese gimbal with jump cut edits in full 4k with downloaded LUTs and a gazzilion layers of film damage and digital aberrations applied in post....and it would look a Schidt load better too.

You are in danger of not taking your own advice re auto focus and are going down a cul-de-sac with those B4s.

How would an Indie kid shoot the athletics example? Right, they happily shoot in autofocus and chop out the bad bits in post and they would have a 4k image, a sharp image, have also got fills of nicely stabilised gimbal footage of the crowd and drone footage from above. They get invited back cuz their image 'looks better' than the old duffer with the soft image despite an eye for composition, low shooting ratio, manual focus skills who can edit and grade.
 
Hey Sam,

Not being facetious here but ever thought of mounting another small camera on top? Like a small emount A series running a wide hyperfocal lens. They're very light weight. I've done this for weird reasons (mixing a fisheye and normal view at the same time) but i wonder whether it might work.

Or that chinese go pro company (I can't spell it but begins with X and the cameras are Yi) has a new 4K+ stabilised tiny solution for next to nothing (by comparison)

As for 2/3rds, isn't the newish varicam 2/3rds and a really nice sensor?

Give it a few years and events will be covered with 360 vr rigs for the wides :) I've seen some backpacks with a pole so you can shoot your 50 f1.4 yourself and cover everything around you 360 degrees above your head. That's pretty awesome actually. Bonus is you'd look like Matt Damon from Elysium.

cheers
Paul
 
morgan_moore said:
The gap is tiny.. people making a living from shooting which is 1% of those who shoot the rest being..

-Daddy funded Reds,
Film council funded Alexas
5d art projects
cat/birthday videos

or huge..

wedding/event people
Click to expand...

I'm none of those things. None of my peers of colleagues in the space I earn my crust are any those things.



So to recap on where we're up to :)

You want reach at the wide and telephoto end but the only obvious solution - the Canon 17-120 - is one you don't want to pay for and don't really want because you'd rather be shooting other stuff.
You have an answer in the likes of the new Fujis but changing lenses is a no-no for you.
You want to do ENG shooting but don't want to use an ENG solution because it precludes sticking a 50mm f1.4 for your 'art shots'
You have the 'fix 99% of your problems' option in a lightweight fixed lens camcorder and that doesn't work because you also demand s-log for these same low budget roll for 10hr don't change lens shoots.

You want the moon on a stick, matey. Also, if we're looking at 'acceptable compromises' can't you just be more telephoto to create depth and get you some shallow DOF shots rather than swap to a fast 50?


Completely off-topic, but am I going mad or do you have a Rigwheels cloud mount? When you have a sec I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as I might be about to invest to go with a heavy gimbal setup. Cheers.
 
paulcurtis said:
Give it a few years and events will be covered with 360 vr rigs
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*shudder*

80% of BVE this year was 360 rig based and yet aside from gallery tours and the Planet Earth stuff I've not seen a single good watchable 360 piece that was made better by its inclusion. And I include the stuff I've done with the format in that appraisal.

It even makes porn worse.
 
paulcurtis said:
Hey Sam,

Not being facetious here but ever thought of mounting another small camera on top?
Click to expand...

Like I said I regularly run the gopro on my FS7 - it is a three with no screen.

Ive had the NEX5 on top of my FS100 back in the day.

But NEX5/gopro are not really the thing.

The BMC micro.. well that is a thing that actually makes a decent file.

But how do you monitor.

And I noticed something really small about the BMC_Ursa_Pro or whatever it is called.. and that is that it has SDI IN but Grant does not clarify if this is a record option.

Now if one could get the micro feeding in to the main EVF and recording and taking the XLR sound from the main camera and have a big chunky swich to swap over.. well that is interesting :)

Wandering in to total fantasy, the Odessy 8q , 5inch, could take a feed from both cameras and record them into a multicam prores file. Perfect.
 
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