So, should we wait for the huge price drop?

[SalaTar]

Youre making $ as is 3 months dont hurt.
If your needing the HVX now buy , you should be able to pay for it in one session. but you wont get it now.

 

[js33]

That also makes you wonder. How come Canon, Sony and JVC have no problem delivering cameras but Panasonic is so far behind? I mean it's not like Pana is a small company and just got in the camera making biz last year.

 

[spunknoid]

Well...
Cineport hasn't delivered yet, Adobe hasn't delivered yet on Priemer, Apple hasn't deliveried yet on its new FCP, Apple hasn't delivered yet on it's new intel based computers. I'd like to think they're all big companies. They've announced delivery dates and will do their best to meet those dates. They are financially motivated to do so as quickly as possible.

We can make assumptions and accusations all day long, but at the end of the day they still remain assumptions and accusations. Without being in the companies, knowing all the details and logistics we're just making a bunch of noise.

 

[meddesigner]

Well -

Apple has delivered on Intel Macs you can buy the first one today and the laptop next month.

FCP will work with DVCPRO-HD and P2 media now in Version 5 and the new stuff will be out right around NAB.

So Apple is in fact delivering what thy said they would.

 

[spunknoid]

Like I said the laptop is supposed to be there next month, I hope. I really want it.

The current version of FCP does not work on the new platform. I hope next month too. I really want it too.

Panasonic did deliver, I just don't know how many. I hope more cause I really want it.

Again, not knowing all the Panasonic logistics or details I am just intregued by the assumptions.

 

[meddesigner]

Honestly I think you would be better off with a dual tower than the new laptop. I played with the new laptops at MacWorld and felt they ran hot and the Apple rep said they were still working out the kinks.

The G5's handle DVCPRO-HD very nicely. IF you can wait and really want the laptop then I would just wait till NAB when Apple will make their pro video announcements like they usually do.

But for now I am sticking with my G5's becuase I know they work well.

 

[js33]

Apple and Adobe do have a long history of delivering what they say when they say. You have to compare Panasonic to their peers Canon, Sony and JVC and all of these companies seem to be able to make and deliver products with no problem. Also this camera was announced almost a year ago and it looks like 4 months will go by before most get what they ordered. Hell they will probably annouce a new camera at NAB before even delivering the HVX annouced a year earlier. Hehehehe.

 

[spunknoid]

IF you can wait and really want the laptop then I would just wait till NAB when Apple will make their pro video announcements like they usually do.

But for now I am sticking with my G5's becuase I know they work well.

Thanks for that insight. I think I will wait. I have been a hard core PC enthusiast and figured I'd add the MAC/FCP for what appears to be an great work flow. I just don't know the MAC line well enough yet.


On a side note. How does the delivery of the HVX compare to the DVX when it first came out? Better, worse, same?

 

[philnerd]

That also makes you wonder. How come Canon, Sony and JVC have no problem delivering cameras but Panasonic is so far behind? I mean it's not like Pana is a small company and just got in the camera making biz last year.

I've got an idea. You could buy a Canon, Sony or JVC. Then you could join a forum about your newly purchased camera so you can exchange useful information about it.

 

[Barry_Green]

I am most concerned with image quality and that includes resolution after all isn't that what HD is all about? More resolution than SD?

Look at an HVX shot next to an SD shot. You will see that the HVX delivers extraordinarily more resolution than any SD camera.

If the cameras resolving powers are barely better than a DVX you might as well shoot the DVX in 16:9 mode and just blow the image up in post.

If there was any truth to that statement then maybe you'd have a point. But the camera's resolving powers are way, way higher than a DVX's. Then you factor in 16:9 and 4:2:2 and you'll quickly see that there is a very good reason the HVX costs $2,000 more than the DVX.

But there is no arguing from what we have seen that the HDV cameras with their native 1440 x 1080 have the upper hand in resolution.

There is only one HDV camera that has native 1440x1080. And in luma resolution it is higher, although when in 24F mode it's about the same in vertical res. But the HVX still delivers twice the color resolution in the recorded frame, and its pictures look very, very good, and it's got features the others simply don't. These are a few of many reaons why six of the eight cinematographers & producers who were there all picked the HVX as the one they would spend their money on.

 

[Barry_Green]

That also makes you wonder. How come Canon, Sony and JVC have no problem delivering cameras but Panasonic is so far behind?

Canon can supply them because ... well... I'll let you answer that. Call dealers and ask how many XLH1's they've sold. There's a law of supply and demand. Canon has supply. Panasonic has demand.

JVC had a four-month delay from the time they said it would be out (June 2005) until the time I actually got mine (September 29 2005), and I was first in line at my reseller's order list.

If Panasonic did as JVC did, the first customers in the US wouldn't be getting theirs until the end of April. But already they've delivered into the hands of end users and more are coming, hopefully many more customers will have theirs in the next few days. They are running well ahead of JVC's launch pattern.

Sony also had a bit of a backorder situation when the Z1 first came out. They have no problem supplying units now.

 

[Barry_Green]

if you ask if it makes sense to spend 6000 k€ for a camera that comes out last in a 4 cam shoot-out.

Last in what context? In terms of observed res chart performance? Or in terms of sensitivity (where it came in first)? Or in terms of who among us would spend our money to buy one? Because in that test, the Panasonic came out way ahead, by a vote of six for HVX, one for Canon, one for JVC.

 

[Barry_Green]

On a side note. How does the delivery of the HVX compare to the DVX when it first came out? Better, worse, same?

About the same, but there was lower demand for the DVX initially. People were unconvinced about the genuine-ness of 24p or how much they'd want it. When the DVX was announced and first delivered it followed the same release pattern, but there weren't a few thousand backorders all around the country for the DVX.

 

[PKraft]

Well -

Apple has delivered on Intel Macs you can buy the first one today and the laptop next month.
FCP will work with DVCPRO-HD and P2 media now in Version 5 and the new stuff will be out right around NAB.
So Apple is in fact delivering what thy said they would.

Believe it or not - FCP (current PPC version) runs without any flaws on an Intel iMac.
Speed appr. as with a 1.5 GHz G5 Chip. Never thought this were possible. So no waiting time until the Universal Binaries will be available in spring.

Best, Pe.

 

[PKraft]

Last in what context? In terms of observed res chart performance?

Yes, rez only. Cause it is the paramount feature of HD.
At least for me.

 

[cici]

Yes, rez only. Cause it is the paramount feature of HD.
At least for me.

for you it's rez only?

ok, then buy a cell-phone with built-in hd-videocam with 1920x1080 and a better resolution than the Varicam. ... of course the lens is made of cheap plastic, but HEY, it's a 500 Dollar bargain for a fantastic resolution. Ok, that cell-phone needs at least 500 lux for a picture that is not black.... but HEY, it's HD for 500 USD!! - Perhaps the record time is limited to 67 seconds, but HEY - it has at least 50% better resolution than the HVX200! - Go and get that cell-phone and don't forget to send us some frame-grabs from your resolution tests.

Someone in this forum mentioned the analogy of buying a car just because of it's horsepower. A tank has more horsepower than a sports-car.... but it would never win the race in Monte-Carlo!

The HVX has variable frame-rates.... you don't mind? REAL slo-mo?

The HVX will work in the heat of the desert, when (as the test proved) all other non-P2 cameras shut down.... you don't mind?

The HVX is the most sensitive camera in the test of 4 (6).... (if I got that right) - you don't mind?

The HVX will never record any tape-noises, recording onto P2 or FS, will be ready to record IMMEDIATELY, EVEN IF YOU JUST WATCH THE FOOTAGE made first on the P2 card.... just switch to record mode and record! - No need to be afraid to delete some previous scenes. .... You don't mind?

No tapemechanism needed for record - this means: no noise, no abrasion (tape, heads e.g.), no tape winding, no linearity..... you don't mind?

No need to buy a tape ever again if you don't want to.... you don't mind?

A real mass of gammas, knees, two great ND filters, incredible wide-angle, and still a 13x zoom factor on top of it, some unbeatable sound (let's test that one!!), a strong community of users and companies that produce accessories for the HVX behind it.... you don't mind?

Then go and get your HD-featured cell-phone.

 

[Ralph nixon]

Excuse my newness but I have a few questions: can you edit HD with the Hdpro codec in all it's formats (1080p, 720p etc...) in Apple's Final Cut Pro Studio program on a 2.3Ghz Dual or Quad? When is NAB and where? What are the compartative prices of all four cameras discussed (jvc,panny,sonny,canon)? Thanks.

 

[PKraft]

for you it's rez only?

I said: <<Rez is the paramount feature of HD.
At least for me.>>

What's wrong with that? If other features are of less importance
for me, why does that bother you? It is my camera, my money and
my decision. I have my reasons why I did say that.

If you don't understand what I said, stop bashing me.

 

[Barry_Green]

Excuse my newness but I have a few questions: can you edit HD with the Hdpro codec in all it's formats (1080p, 720p etc...) in Apple's Final Cut Pro Studio program on a 2.3Ghz Dual or Quad?

Yes.

When is NAB and where?

April in Las Vegas. See www.nab.org

What are the compartative prices of all four cameras discussed (jvc,panny,sonny,canon)? Thanks.

MSRP:
JVC: $6,295
Sony: $5946
Canon: $8999
Panasonic: $5995.

Of course that's only the start of the question; there's "street price" and there's required accessories and all sorts of things. But these are the manufacturer's MSRP's for the base camera configuration.

 

[Barry_Green]

What's wrong with that? If other features are of less importance for me, why does that bother you? It is my camera, my money and
my decision. I have my reasons why I did say that.

Y'know, there's nothing wrong with it. This is exactly how you should be looking at it. Pick what features are important to you. Cici pointed out a lot of features that were important that had nothing to do with res, and those make a point for why Cici would choose an HVX. If PKraft values res chart performance above all, then that's an easy question to answer too.

There are multiple tools on the market, and they do different things. This is good for the consumer.