So I emailed Canon about a needed Firmware update

G

Gene Sung

Veteran
So I am envious of the really nice GH1 footage we've been seeing, and I realize that the 7D/550D could be that nice also. So I e-mailed Canon's tech support regarding a 7D firmware update. Will it do anything? Maybe, maybe not. But Canon did listen in the past and gave the 5D 24fps as well as manual control in firmware updates, so it's worth a shot.

If you want to e-mail them, their tech support e-mail is

carecenter@cits.canon.com

or their tech support phone number is (and they have helpful tech people):

800-828-4040

Here's what I wrote:

----------------

To whom it may concern,

Since the 90's, I have been a long time Canon customer who owns a 7D as well as numerous Canon lenses. The 7D was at the forefront of DSLR video technology until a recent Panasonic GH1 firmware update drastically advanced that camera, even surpassing the much more expensive 7D.

Here's an article on the latest groundbreaking GH1 firmware update.

http://philipbloom.net/2010/06/11/3rd-party-firmware-transforms-wimpy-gh1-into-optimus-prime/

With an upcoming film project in August, we were originally going to use the 7D and 550D. However, with recent huge advances in the Panasonic GH1, we are now considering using the GH1 instead of the Canons, as are many people who are now giving the GH1 a second look.

7D customers mainly would like 2 key components in a firmware update

1) Fixing the bad Moire patterns
2) A more robust codec. Might I suggestion an option for Motion JPG to compliment the current H264.

These changes will propel the 7D back to the forefront, so please consider including these change in a near future upcoming firmware update before myself, and others start migrating to Panasonic.

Thanks for you time..

-----------------

So maybe drop them an e-mail or a call. It can't hurt and only takes a few minutes.

I would just get a GH1 (it's not too expensive and I already have a range of FD lenses), but it would be really hard for me just because of the EOS lens issue - Tokina 11-16, Canon 17-55 f2.8, Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS. Those are the best zooms available, and it would be hard to not use those.

OK.... enough camera wars for me. I'm off to shoot.
 
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I think the bottom line is any of the big companies are not going to put out a free firmware update like this - they already have your money, so why would they waste R & D on a product they've already sold to you?

I'm not saying they are not listening, only that they would rather spend money developing a new camera with the features we want - and which we will pay another $2000 for.

The 5dmkii firmware was an exception to this rule. Generally firmware is only released to fix a problem with a camera, not to add new features. Maybe they thought they'd made a mistake, maybe they were surpirsed by how many people bought the 5d for video, maybe they were swayed by the mountain of complaints and requests - who knows? One of the more likely possibilities I've read is that they wanted ot squeeze a few more sales out of the 5dmkii (more $$$) before they released the almost irresistable 7d. Many people who bought the 5d becuase of first firmware then went and bought the 7d two months later because it offered things the 5d didn't. Releasing the firmware when they did was most likely a calculated move to get more sales rather than an attempt to make things easier for people who already owned the camera. Canon are doing some serious stategic planning with their HDSLR line and raking in the $$$ as a result - and any company would do the same.

I'm not saying we shouldn't make noise and we shouldn't ask for changes, but perhaps - as has been done with the GH1, people should focus their efforts on either A) hacking the firmware, or B) proving that the demand is there for particular features in a new camera, and that Canon would profit nicely from releasing it asap.

In any case, the 7d is still the same as it was before the GH13. It still takes great video (not to mention 8fps stills!) and offers plenty of creative control for those who seek it.
 
They said they did it with the 5D because so many people bugged them. I personally think they will if we make enough noise. So many people are trying to predict the motivations and stratagies of these companies and 9 out of 10 times everybody is wrong. I tend to take what they say as the truth and not try to figure out thier grand plans...sometimes they simply like to provide functionality for thier customers if they complain too much...I know our company does that.

Now please make some noise :)
 
I'm with you Boulder. I mean, how little effort does it take to write an e-mail or call and bug the tech support people? The worse that can happen is nothing, the best that can happen is we get an improved codec. Doing nothing is the worse thing you can do.

Boulder's Tech Support link is probably better than the e-mail I provided. Go there and write them

https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/...categoryid=215&modelid=19356&WT.mc_id=C126149
 
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Emailed them.

To whom it may concern,

I've been an avid customer of your cameras as far back as the AE-1. I still have it on my shelf and it still works incredibly well.
Down the line, I currently use the 7D. Without a doubt you're aware of how much these cameras have taken off as mini-filmmaking machines. It's not far off from being perfect. Thanks to great hardware and lenses, capturing astounding footage is easier than ever, but it's hampered by a less than desirable codec. The moire and aliasing problems are well documented, and, if fixed, would without a doubt, but your cameras into leagues rivaling "Game-changers" like the RED Scarlett and beyond, and increase camera sales well beyond current numbers.

An independent coder recently took the severely crippled Panasonic GH1's firmware and turned it into a camera that surpasses the 7D and 5D

Here's an article on the latest groundbreaking GH1 firmware update.

http://philipbloom.net/2010/06/11/3r...optimus-prime/

I'm directing an upcoming Feature Film in September, we currently have an arsenal of 2 5Dmk2's and 3 7D's. With recent huge advances in the Panasonic GH1, we are now considering using the GH1 with adapters instead of the Canons, as are many people who are now giving the GH1 a second look. We owe it to our vision --and our investors-- the best quality image for the budget we can afford.

Thanks for your time.

Took 5 minutes to type up. Whats it worth to you?
 
Canon at least sent me a response that actually seemed like it was written by a human being. They said that the Tech guys are always interested in issues regarding the 7D and that my e-mail has been forwarded to them.

I heard that Panasonic never gave a response to any of the GH1 e-mails, so at least Canon wrote me back.

I'm not holding my breath or anything, but at least they responded.
 
i dont think the moire can be fixed through firmware

mostly what i want is
audio control
histogram during video mode

on the 550D and 7D

this is more feasible i presume
 
boulder said:
Trammel just posted that 7D ML is pretty much dead so this is our only hope guys.
Click to expand...

Anyone know any good hackers? Hehe... I asked my friend who is an amazing coder, but he wasn't feeling it. Shoot, if someone were to do this he probably could make a decent bit of change. I know I would happily pay a good amount for a better codec.

From what we have seen from the GH1, it's very obvious that a better codec can be done. As for me, I'm not too worried about audio controls, histograms, etc... I just want a better picture because it does seems a bit soft.

As for the Moire, you never know. It's only speculation at this point. I think Tester 13 has proved that a lot more is possible than you think.
 
I do think Canon has made 7D very difficult to hack...I don't hink it can be done personally. I think our best hope lies in bugging canon as much as possible for what we want.
 
Yeah, I got a response back also:

"Thank you for writing to us with your feedback. We appreciate you taking
the time to share your comments with us regarding your Canon product.

We have forwarded your comments to Canon USA through our Customer
Feedback process. This process allows us to capture important feedback
from our valued customers. As we constantly strive to improve our
products and services, your comments are vital to our continued success.

For important product updates, including available drivers and product
notifications, please visit Canon's Web site at
www.usa.canon.com/consumer.


Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your
xxxCanon Productxxx.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

Dirk
Technical Support Representative

Special Note: Certain issues are very difficult to resolve via email. If
your question remains unanswered after you have received this email, you
may call our special toll-free number for email customers with
unresolved issues and speak to a technician by dialing 1-866-261-9362,
Monday - Friday 8:00 a.m. - 12:00 midnight ET, and Saturday 10:00 a.m. -
8:00 p.m. ET (excluding holidays).

If you prefer to continue to communicate via email, reply to this
message and we will respond as quickly as possible"
 
dcloud said:
mostly what i want is
audio control
histogram during video mode

on the 550D and 7D

this is more feasible i presume
Click to expand...

This is what the original 5d Magic Lantern focused on and was later addressed by Canon's own official firwmware. I agree that if Canon give us anything, this is what it will be as they've already proven with the 5d that the capability is there. But they might want to keep this as the seperating factor for videographers between the 5d and 7d to entice people to get the more expensive one for the extra features.


gene_can_sing said:
From what we have seen from the GH1, it's very obvious that a better codec can be done.
Click to expand...

The thing with both the GH1 and the 7d is that the H.264 codec is implemented poorly. However to compensate for this, the 7d/5d/550d used a higher bitrate but the GH1 did not and this is why the 7d initially outshone the GH1. Now the bitrates are almost even, and on this level playing field the GH1 is delivering a superior image (in most peoples opinions - although aesthetics are always very subjective and thus debatable). Raising the bitrate might improve the 7d's picture quality but the truth is it already has an unusually high data rate (for a consumer h.264 camera). The GH13 tester's tried a bunch of different bitrates and came up with an optimum bitrate of around 30-40mbps as the best balance between error-free qaulity and file size. It seems the Canon engineers decided on a similar number. With the 7d, raising the bitrate any higher might mean you'll see alot more card problems and possibly more overheating, without actually improving the image.

The remaining problems, such as moire, softness, etc all come from the way the hardware operates. Changing a few bitrate numbers in the sofware proved do-able, but telling the sensor to use pixel-binning instead of line skipping is a far more complex adjustment. I'm not saying it's not possible, because I'm not an engineer or expert, but it would be alot harder to do than increasing the bitrate on the GH1.
 
The problem with all of this is, the firmware that was released by Tester 13 was unofficial, aka, not from Panasonic. Panasonic would probably never release a firmware like his to an older model camera like the GH1, because it potentially would hurt the sales of future cameras with similar new features.

I guarantee you that Panasonic and the other guys know very well what they are doing when they develop these cameras. They know that the models they release have a certain product cycle until they are updated by models with both newer firmware and hardware. Just take the DVX100, 100a, and 100b as an example.

Now it's great that we have folks in the community like Tester 13 and Trammel Hudson doing this very intensive and laborious work all to the benefit of us, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an "official" update.
 
I sent off my email and called. The tech guy on the phone wasn't a friendly as people say they are, but he did say he would forward my request for AGC disable to the "Canon Customer Voice" dept. Took only 5 minutes.
 
Edweirdo said:
I sent off my email and called. The tech guy on the phone wasn't a friendly as people say they are, but he did say he would forward my request for AGC disable to the "Canon Customer Voice" dept. Took only 5 minutes.
Click to expand...

We're getting under their skin... This could be a good sign? ;-D
 
I don't think the solution is to up the bit-rate. I think an alternative to H264 is a better solution. Motion JPG is a much cleaner codec IMO.

I work in Motion Graphics, and whenever we e-mail a .mov for the client to check out, we usually do it with MJPG or PhotoJPG instead of H264. H264 is a smaller files size, but the MJPG or PJPG is much cleaner. It's essentially a series of photos which is probably why it's so clean.

A lower bit rate mjpg looks better than a higher bitrate H264, which is probably why the GH1 has a better looking image.

I don't think it would be hard at all for Canon to impliment a MJpg alternative. The 7D already has the .jpg format for the stills side. So why not the video side?

The moire might be harder to solve, but even a better mjpg codec would be an improvement because the image does look soft right now.

What ever the case, Tester 13 has shown that a bit of tweaking can result in GREAT image gains.

The 7D is crippled for sure at this point, and is probably nowhere near what it could be. We're not asking for RAW or anything, so I don't think a better codec would cripple Canon's future sales. It would just make me happier to stick with the company, and I would probably be more inclined to buy their products in the future.

Look at Panasonic. They were completely unresponsive to their customers with the GH1, which is a big turn off as a customer. I would be less inclined to buy something from them unless Tester 13 took over their camera dept. Hehe...

At least Canon has released substantial firmware updates for the 5D in the past, which puts them in a little better light.

But yeah... no breath holding here.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
A lower bit rate mjpg looks better than a higher bitrate H264, which is probably why the GH1 has a better looking image.
Click to expand...

This is actually pure nonsense. Blu-ray uses H264 at 36Mbit/s. Try to compress the same footage using MJPEG. You will see how poor MJPEG really is.

The only reason why MJPEG might look better than H264 is poor H264 encoder. And this is the real issue with Canon DSLR. I'am almost sure, that they use only reference frames and they have very poor quantization matrix selection strategy.
Maybe they can improve it, or maybe not...
 
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