FS7: Small lense solution for FS7

A

A7s_user

Active member
After I am just slowly convinced that the FS7 might be a good choice for me today, I have to find a good solution for the lense.

  • I do not film "cineastic", I do not film real live / persons / nature
  • I just film large scale fireworks displays at night
  • I need wide angle, 18mm is good, 16mm would be better in some cases.
  • The lense should have a slight zoom because in most times I am fixed to the only possible position, 250-600m away from the fireworks front, but I want to have the show full framed
  • The lense should be zoom through/par focal. There is no chance for me to re-focus, when I recognize during the show, that the zoom was not perfect and I have to adjust
  • I have to permanently adjust exposure/iris during the show (bright silver images <> low light gold images)
  • there is not need for autofocus, I focus manually one time before the show in darkness
  • IS/steady shot would be great to avoid shaking by the explosions at sky or wind
  • sharpness till the edges ist a must

For the A7S I've bought a Nikon-Nex-adapter by novoflex which does allow me to use mechanical iris adjustments on a Nikkor 18-35mm lense. There is no IS/steady shot available with this combination.

  • Could I use this full frame lense (Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm 1:3,5-4,5G ED) with the same adapter on FS7 for 4K/UHD recordings?
  • Is there a more convenient solution with IS/steady shot and/or better (softer, "longer way") iris control? Maybe some speedbooster with a Nikon or Canon lense?

I really would like to avoid a huge +2k Cine lense, which I simply do not use/need. I would like to have a low weight/size, payable but good solution. The Nikkor 18-35mm is good for the A7S. Is it good enough for the FS7 or can I even improve it slightly?

I am totally new to FS7 / speedbooster / lense options - please forgive my dummy questions.
 
Last edited:
Right now I think the only lenses that use image stabilization are certain Canon lenses and Sony E lenses. With a metabones speed booster you pick up light sensativity and greater width. As I recall 24mm becomes 17mm and F4 becomes F2.8. A lot of people go with the Canon 24-105 F4L lens (L lenses are their top of the line), which becomes 17-70mm F2.8 with IS for a relatively cheap price (about $600.) Hopefully you sent away for the included metabones adapter.

Another alternative since you have an adapter is the Tokina 11-16mm F2.8. I don't think there's any support for Nikon IS yet though people keep asking for it.

Resolution is not the issue with DSLR lenses. They are designed for more than 4k anyway. Image stabilization, connectivity of lens sensors to the screen, etc. are.
 
I would avoid the Canon 24-17 with speed booster because it is known for CA in the corners and in your situation I imagine that would be a big problem. Speedbooster is pretty sharp but even the Ultyra is still weaker in the corners. When you say you need 18mm I am guessing you mean the FOV for full frame? To find out what equivalent lens you need for APS C or Super 35 like the FS7 multiply by .71 . This yields about a 13mm lens. I would suggest the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Its a good lens, par focal enough, and it won't change aperture when you zoom.
 
You are not shooting on a tripod? That would affect whether you need IS. People have given you a pretty good range of choices, all pretty reasonable. It's hard for me to believe that this is the ONLY thing you will use the camera for, and that would affect your choices too. I also have the the Tokina 11-16mm F2.8, and like it.
 
Thank you all!
There are few occasions where I do film the setup of the fireworks too, yes. But the camera is just for the shows and the gear has to be optimized just for that purpose.

@Jim
Yes, I always shoot the shows on a tripod, never without. I normally move the cam seldom and very slowly up- and downwards to catch some large caliber shells, if they are far above the normal front of mines, cakes and lower shells. I never had a problem with IS/steady shot on with my EX1R on tripod. It really helps to avoid image shaking by some powerfull shell breaks and saluts and even more often by wind. Last happens somehow often because my filming position is often exposed, on a roof or similar.

As the IS would be helpful, beeing able to change smoothly and clickless the exposure is a must. No sensor manages to film a full show with just one exposure setting. So I permantly change iris for bright colored images and for low light golden brocade colors. On the EX1R this is perfectly possible, with the A7S its not that perfect, but possible with the ring of the noveflex adapter, which mechanically moves the Nikon aperture.


Once again back to the reason for a FS7: I am very happy since years with my EX1R because of the great 3CMOS colors of fireworks (I never saw any other cam other than the XDCAM 3CMOS showing that intense but realistic colors of fireworks, its just the same as with my eyes. I am a pyrotechnician and know, how colors have to look. Its not just "red", there are many different shades and totally different tints for eg. strontium or calcium mixtures). But since years I am hating the lense of the EX1R, its simply not wide enough. With the Sony WA converter 0.8x VCL0877 its better for many situations, but its still often not wide enough. I never succeeded with 0.6x adapters from 16x9 or Century. In the end all that solutions have too much bending at the bottom or are unsharp at the edges. Furthermore I want to offer UltraHD/4K in some cases.

Time to change the camera. I would immediatly by a Sony 3CMOS 4K sensor cam, but there seem to be absolute no rumour on that, so it would take years to wait, if it ever comes. The A7S together with Odyssey 7Q+ is no option, because of its unbelievable and ridiculous color shift. I fear, the FS7 is not perfect too, its simply no 3CMOS, but maybe its "good enough" for my tasks (it's probably perfect for 99% of all other film situations).

So, back to topic.

@Lenilenapi
With the EX1R and 0,8x I get around 74° of horizontal FoV, with 0,6x its around 90°.
With the A7S and the Nikon 18-35mm in full frame mode I get the same 90° - its very good for many situations.

For the FS7 I need the same - or even a little more wide angle, but with a slight zoom for other situations (more far way, smaller shows). When I calculate correctly and you confirm it, I would need a 13mm lense or better 12mm (=92°). So, the Tokina with 11-16mm seems to have a very good range from 97° to 75° on the FS7 Super35.

Will that lense fit with my normal Nikon-NEX/eMount-adpater on the FS7 - its the same distance as the FF sensor in the A7S? Will I be able to move the exposure/iris with the adapter mechanically the same way as with a Nikon lense?

@Jim
Do you use the Tokina on the FS7, with which adapter, please? Is it perfectly sharp till the edges?

@Christian
A 16mm would probably be to little. I asume, the 16mm is "the same" as the 16mm at the zoom end of the Tokina, so it would be only 75° FoV on the FS7.

@Duke/Lenilenapi
So, the much more expensive solution would be a Canon FE-lense, L-series. I would have to add the Speedbooster Ultra, which is additional $700.

With the speedbooster ultra I would get 17mm out of the 24mm (x 0.71), which is not enough.
An alternative, but much more expensive would be the Canon 16-35mm 1:4 L IS USM EF which I've read is perfectly sharp till the edges.

I am just curious: with that combination I would have IS and I could regulate the exposure/iris with a ring on the speedbooster? How "far" is the way to regulate aperture, is it just "1cm" as on the Novoflex/Nikon-combination?



At the moment I would "try" the FS7 with Tokina 11-16mm with a nikon adpater.
 
The Tokina 11-16mm should work fine with the adapter you have. It's a well respected lens with minimal barrel distortion even at 11mm. At 13-16 none really. Most pro shooters keep one in their kit. Iris control will be through the adapter. You can do it through the camera but you would probably find it to be too much fiddling.

As far as metabones adapters go there are several versions. I think the pin Sony is giving away is version 2. The ultimate I believe was one had programming issues creating CA. You should speak to the manufacturer and or search posts here to see which adapters had issues and if they've been resolved.

FYI, the tokina 11-16 will not work properly with the metabones adapter for nikons. But with yours or a commlite it's fine.
 
Thank you again, Duke.

I've read now some reviews on the Tokina. They are all excited about the sharpness, image quality and little barrel distortion. So far so good. But every second review complains clearly about lense flares, which they say happens more often than with other super wide angle lenses. As I always film backlight with bright stars/comets only, this could be an fatal issue. Any comments / reassurance on this? ;)
 
A7s_user said:
Thank you again, Duke.

I've read now some reviews on the Tokina. They are all excited about the sharpness, image quality and little barrel distortion. So far so good. But every second review complains clearly about lense flares, which they say happens more often than with other super wide angle lenses. As I always film backlight with bright stars/comets only, this could be an fatal issue. Any comments / reassurance on this? ;)
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed particular lens flare problems but I use a mattbox and don't have explosions in front of the camera. It does have a little CA wide and it is softer at the wide end as are most lenses. From what you said it sounds like what you need is the 13-16mm range. You are in such a specialized situation that I'd definitely borrow one to try before you buy. Lots of people have one, and depending on where you are its likely you can borrow or rent.

The question is whether it's the right lens for you. As I said many pro shooters have one of these as there's nothing else this wide that's reasonably priced, and for your use you can use the cheap adapter. For most people's use none of those concerns are real issues (and I'm also using the 13-16mm range.) There are websites that have done extensive tests on this lens. It's generally rated good to very good, and for the price great. But for fireworks, I have no experience.

Say what city you're in and you can probably meet up with someone here for a test.
 
I don't think anyone makes an IS lens that wide as its generally deemed unneccessary.
In order to get smooth iris changes you will typically need to get a Nikon Tokina since the Nikon adapter will allow you to rack iris smoothly. So you could get a Nikon>EF and then couple it with an EF> Sony NEX E mt adapter ., or directly get a Nikon> Sony NEX adapter.

Oddly I found my Nikon lenses had better back focus joining the Nikon >EF and EF >NEX mounts than it did with ny metabones Nikon>NEX directly.. You want to have a relatively par focal lens, so testing is must regardless.

For you limited purposes though you could also save a helluva lot of money and get a Sony F3 which is going for dirt cheap these days ($3500) . You can still shoot Slog ( original) pif you want and get a Nikon>FZ adapter for it. There are other hassles with the F3 , namely that it really needs an additional EVF for shooting outside though at night that might not be necessary. Also it only records in 8 bit 4:2:0 which may or may not matter to you.
 
Well so much for that statement! Trouble jus there' no way to get a Canon lens to have a smooth iris . Generally speaking inn this world you get to pick your poison - IS or clickers iris - but getting both just doesn't happen. Pertition your favorite adapter maker to make a powered Nikon adapter.
 
Lenilenapi said:
For you limited purposes though you could also save a helluva lot of money and get a Sony F3 which is going for dirt cheap these days ($3500) . You can still shoot Slog ( original) pif you want and get a Nikon>FZ adapter for it. There are other hassles with the F3 , namely that it really needs an additional EVF for shooting outside though at night that might not be necessary. Also it only records in 8 bit 4:2:0 which may or may not matter to you.
Click to expand...

But he wants to shoot 4k Lenny. Plus he has a simple Nikon to NEX adapter already.

For the OP Tokina company Was formed by a group of Nikon lens engineers. I consider it's biggest drawback the lack of an iris ring.
 
Yeah, I've just searched for the F3, its FHD only. If I would be able to stay with FHD, I would keep my EX1R or buy the X200 just to renew my EX1R, hoping, the lense is a little better. And/or wait for the X300, which will come for sure not too far away.
Best solution would be a X300 with 3CMOS, 4K and eMount. I would love it, really.

I am pretty sure the FS7 will give me similar (not so good) fireworks colors as the A7S, but very probably I am really going to try, till my above mentioned 3CMOS 4K wish becomes true.

Clicking Iris is a No Go, no chance to accept that. I would try a commlite adapter because of its "several turns" iris ring (Novoflex has just 1.5cm way for aperture), but I've found a topic which leaves the usability result open. The signs a more negative against the commlite.
 
Sony G 18-105/f4 worked for me last week and was bought to replace a Canon 24-105, on which I was seeing unacceptable CA with a Metabones Ultra - although see the caveats about aperture control I've just mentioned in my other recent post. It also benefits from in-camera distortion correction - but only if you're not going bigger than HD and you're happy to shoot without a LUT.

Zoom works well.

They don't make it easy...

Ben.
 
So, the decision is made and the FS7 is ordered from my trusty local dealer for the ultimative test. The FS7 will be used till Sony releases a payable XDCAM X300 or similar with 4K 3CMOS and eMount, since I don't expect perfect fireworks colors without color shift from the FS7. But it's now the best possible try.

I own a Noveflox Nikon-NEX-Adapter already, yes. But this is only 150 € and it will remain on the A7S for some time. Therefore I am free for a new adapter and lense.

Best solution till now: buy the same Novoflex adpater again for Tokina 11-16mm on FS7.

I just found the Sigma 10-20 mm F3,5 EX DC HSM for a similar price of the Tokina and similar good reviews. Its even more wide angle and has more zoom. Unfortunatly its only available for Sony A-mount, and for Canon and Nikon. But since it does not bring IS, there's no reason to go with a Novoflex or Metabones Canon adapter for this one.

Before I decide for Tokina 11-16 or Sigma 10-20 its your chance now to hint me to a clickles aperture and IS adapter and lense. ;)
 
Thank you for the new Tokina hint, sounds great. More zoom for my special cases and less lense flares. I think I will wait for that, the first listings in Germany can be found, but much more expensive than at B&H.

So, this is the "Nikon" option, with a second passive adapter by Novoflex. I will take it, if there is really no "IS" and/or "longer way to regulate the iris" for me.

To conclude:


  • I understood, that the only way today to get IS would be a Canon IS lense with an active Metabones adapter or to use a compatible Sony e-mount lense
  • There is no chance for a Sigma, Tokina, Nikon, Samyang... lense, because either there is no IS in the lense at all or it is not supported by any (not available) active adapter
  • Almost all Sony lenses seem not to be available below 16mm, only this 10-18mm one:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...l1018_10_18mm_F_4_0mm_Optical_SteadyShot.html
    The only reason for me to go that direction would be the IS. Did anybody consider or recomment that lense for FS7?
    At the moment I have to think over, why it is only 15mm equivalent on FullFrame.
  • Canon L series could be an option for IS, but the 24-105 was not fully recommended. In any case with Metabones Speedbooster I would not have clickless iris. Is it really hard clicking or some kind of wavy steps?
  • Any other prefered ultra wide angle Canon IS lense?
  • Metabones may have some firmware issues.
  • Other adapters like commlite (or lots of the cheap Chinese stuff) are probably not suitable, because light enters with all bad results. I would have loved to use a commlite, because of its longer/softer way to move the iris, compared to the Noveflex (just 1.5cm or so).

Did I get it right? Any more thoughts? Thank you for your patience and help!

At least the FS7 is already ordered...
 
Wait...is that right? For the FS7 multiply mm x .71? Thought it was 1.4.
Not sure how you can say that a lens designed for full sensor as a Canon 17-24 would yield an effective FOV of 13mm on the back end. How does a lens get wider without a horrible vignette? I don't understand the physics that allow a wider field of view to be offered than the lens has without either stretching or the vignetting I mentioned.
Love to be smartened up on that topic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top