Sigma fp
- Thread starter DLD
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Or A7IV and A7RV. Canon seems to have struck on its own.
Beside, with the postponed 2020 summer Olympics in Tokyo now back on the schedule, there's likely to be a bunch of models coming out prior to that event.
An assumption that FP L is a strictly Sigma design may not be warranted either. The sensor is the same as in A7RIV. So can be most everything else, just a stripped down version. In Hollywood, it's called repurposing.
And, if you believe that it's a cartel as I do, then this is how the cartel works. It's not that one model protects one other, it's that the entire industry colludes on both prices and features/performance and every participant gets its slice of the pie. And, often unwittingly, the slice turns out to be very small.
Peter C.
Veteran
I laugh because when they cut the price in the fall I was sure that they were going to release it. Instead they released other high end models and don't want their product lines to compete. Instead releasing a74 and gaining further lead they were more than happy to drag their feet and milk as much sales out of the A73.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
That's what happened with the A7SII. As far as I know, they were poised to release the A7SIII much earlier. But the a7sii was still selling well, so they postponed
NorBro
Major Contributor
Sony actually said a few times in 2018 and 2019 that the camera wasn't ready yet (and IIRC they wanted to make it better than what they currently had).
With that said, if RED or Blackmagic or ARRI made stills cameras that were as advanced as the Japanese systems there would be no postponement. They might have actually released it before anyone else (along with Canon's version) because of their high technological integrity.
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I mean...even if the cartel talk is crazy to some (I'm actually getting tired of it myself), what kind of business is this?
There are mainly two companies selling cameras.
Panasonic and Nikon and Sigma and Olympus with their 1-2 random photo cameras per year with one random "wow factor" model (S1H) surely do not count anymore.
When you have this much control over such a specialized product - a very superior photography machine that can also shoot motion pictures - that is what you do; you control the business.
Imagine if someone else from a different country came along and offered a R5 or a7SIII - exactly spec-for-spec just as good if not better - for $2000? $1000?
What in the world would Canon and Sony do then? [Obviously the phones are providing this threat, but still far away from the total packages that the mirrorless' are.]
With that said, if RED or Blackmagic or ARRI made stills cameras that were as advanced as the Japanese systems there would be no postponement. They might have actually released it before anyone else (along with Canon's version) because of their high technological integrity.
___
I mean...even if the cartel talk is crazy to some (I'm actually getting tired of it myself), what kind of business is this?
There are mainly two companies selling cameras.
Panasonic and Nikon and Sigma and Olympus with their 1-2 random photo cameras per year with one random "wow factor" model (S1H) surely do not count anymore.
When you have this much control over such a specialized product - a very superior photography machine that can also shoot motion pictures - that is what you do; you control the business.
Imagine if someone else from a different country came along and offered a R5 or a7SIII - exactly spec-for-spec just as good if not better - for $2000? $1000?
What in the world would Canon and Sony do then? [Obviously the phones are providing this threat, but still far away from the total packages that the mirrorless' are.]
ahalpert
Major Contributor
One thing's for sure - these companies make BlackMagic look goooood for how they operate and advance.
There were hot and heavy rumors on the main sony rumor site like 1.5 years before the A7SIII actually got announced. A high degree of certainty - like, the announcement is imminent - and I believe that the rumors guy said that they pushed the announcement. The reasoning for that decision is just speculation
There were hot and heavy rumors on the main sony rumor site like 1.5 years before the A7SIII actually got announced. A high degree of certainty - like, the announcement is imminent - and I believe that the rumors guy said that they pushed the announcement. The reasoning for that decision is just speculation
NorBro
Major Contributor
They could have definitely pushed it back a bit just so we can have a much better camera two years later (I do believe this) - and all they have to do is get Canon on the phone (they are most likely boardroom meetings) - but they also have all the time in the world to do it because they don't have any competition, lol.
It was really a beautiful thing until those darn handheld devices came along.
It was really a beautiful thing until those darn handheld devices came along.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'm not sure the technology advanced THAT much in the interim. Maybe it took them that long to improve the menus? JK.
And the thing is - the a7sii was still selling. Whereas when they delayed the sigma 70-200 fe which was rumored for imminent announcement - it seemed likely to me that they wanted to improve its AF performance relative to the tamron 70-180 fe, which is lightning quick. If sigma released an optically superior but heavy and slow-focusing lens, they probably would have blown their shot. It was the only lens I bought specifically for AF speed because telephoto focusing can be the most challenging
And the thing is - the a7sii was still selling. Whereas when they delayed the sigma 70-200 fe which was rumored for imminent announcement - it seemed likely to me that they wanted to improve its AF performance relative to the tamron 70-180 fe, which is lightning quick. If sigma released an optically superior but heavy and slow-focusing lens, they probably would have blown their shot. It was the only lens I bought specifically for AF speed because telephoto focusing can be the most challenging
A7IV will be coming out any day now ... or the day after ... or ... its positioning on the market matrix is changing. A few months ago, a (rumored) 32 MPX sensor with either 4K or 6K-into-4K seemed reasonable at $2,500. But, if the resolution race is back on, then both Sony and Canon will have something with 80-100 MPX in the $3,500 range, leaving a bit too much of a gap from $2,500. That gap would have to be closed either with a higher stills/more res or better video.
Additionally, Sony has their APS-C line to protect. That has had a 24 MPX sensor for a very long time now too. It'd make sense - though the cartel HQ knows their plans much earlier than we all do - to bump APS-C res and video features moderately and the full frame substantially, especially if there's a price bump with the full frame and not much of one in the APS-C.
The poor slobs here are Nikon and Panasonic. The pretentious Z9 may come out with its expected 70-75 MPX full frame sensor, only to be outpixeled by Canon's R1 (or whatever the model will be called). Canon will probably wait a little to see what Nikon does and then up its specs. Canon can do it because they're in charge of their own development, while Nikon and Panasonic have to depend on Sony. And then cripple those products according to the predetermined agreements. Except, a high end camera with an unreliable auto focus won't fly in 2021 and beyond and a Sigma treatment of no mechanical shutter and poor AF won't fly with the Nikon owners whatsoever. And neither Nikon or Panasonic will buy sensors from outside Japan.
IMO, Sony would have to go with ~ 32 MPX in the APS-C and ~ 40 in full frame entry level. The question mark there is the crippling of the video features. Following Sigma's 8-bit 4:2:2, this is probably what A7IV and the APS-C line will have. But, Canon already has 10-bit with the EOS R, making Sony look a tad foolish already in the sub-$2,000 sector.
Then there's a question of Canon making any APS-C above $1,000 or letting D90 wither in the DSLR desert.
Looking at the available slots, Canon has a $3,000-$4,000 open for R1. Sony will have to replace A7RIV. Then, a $2,500 A7IV and a $3,500 A7RV can sit side by side. And Sony will probably wait for Canon to make the first move.
I neglected to mention the MFT. Once again, the rumors have the alleged GH-6 and its Olympus counterparts with a 41-47 MPX Sony sensor. But then the market won't settle for the MFT having higher res than APS-C and the entry level full frame. So, if that's correct, then one can pretty much double the res across the board. Then A7RV can get above 100.
I suspect Sony won't go much above 24-28 in the MFT size but 70-100 in full frame still leaves Sony and Fuji scrambling in the medium format. Sony does have a 150 MPX MF sensor which it had sold to Phase One several years ago but then it would have to bump everything there too. Meaning that a $10,000 GFX 150 might be just around the corner.
I suspect Sony won't go much above 24-28 in the MFT size but 70-100 in full frame still leaves Sony and Fuji scrambling in the medium format. Sony does have a 150 MPX MF sensor which it had sold to Phase One several years ago but then it would have to bump everything there too. Meaning that a $10,000 GFX 150 might be just around the corner.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
this whole sigma fp thing makes me feel like buying a P6K Pro
at the end of the day, the a7siii is a more useful tool for me to go on gimbal - AF, better low light and DR, IBIS, brand recognition and greater compatibility with FS7 or FX6...
but when you look at what BM and Sigma are each offering you for $3k....it's a joke
and if I wanted to have a little mirrorless-sized camera do eng-style shooting with audio inputs, then the P6K seems like the winner over any other mirrorless even before you talk about IQ and codec
at the end of the day, the a7siii is a more useful tool for me to go on gimbal - AF, better low light and DR, IBIS, brand recognition and greater compatibility with FS7 or FX6...
but when you look at what BM and Sigma are each offering you for $3k....it's a joke
and if I wanted to have a little mirrorless-sized camera do eng-style shooting with audio inputs, then the P6K seems like the winner over any other mirrorless even before you talk about IQ and codec