shutter speed and ASA questions

L

Lenilenapi

Carbonite Member
I imagine these questions have been asked before but I can't find the answers so please bear with me.

I just bought a T2i so these questions are best suited to the T2i or the 7D

When do you feel you start to see noise in the ASA rating? Is 1600 still clean?
Can you see the difference between 800 & 1600?.
How bad is 3200?
Could you compare them to noise levels say on an EX-1 in gain?

Likewise what shutter speeds work OK.
Is 1/30 or 1/25 any worse on the Canon then it is on the EX-1?
I will use those speeds if I need the stop on an EX-1 or HVX. Is it equally OK on the canon?
what about shorter speeds like 1/100 and shorter. I've heard that you can get bad choppy movement as you shorten the shutter speed.


Thanks -

Lenny Levy
 
People have differing tolerances to noise. Personally, I wouldn't shoot the 7D/T2i above ISO400. I've pushed a 5D to 640 and that was FAR too noisy for me.

But then I shoot my EX1 at -3 95% of the time, occasionally pushing it to zero. I shot with it at +6 last weekend, and was nearly embarrassed of the footage. Some people shoot with it there all the time and declare it great.

Shutter speed is shutter speed on any camera. That doesn't change.
 
Lenilenapi said:
When do you feel you start to see noise in the ASA rating? Is 1600 still clean?
Can you see the difference between 800 & 1600?.
How bad is 3200?
Click to expand...
Why don't you trust your eyes instead of asking? You do own the camera after all.

Could you compare them to noise levels say on an EX-1 in gain?
Click to expand...
Why is this important?

Likewise what shutter speeds work OK.
Is 1/30 or 1/25 any worse on the Canon then it is on the EX-1?
I will use those speeds if I need the stop on an EX-1 or HVX. Is it equally OK on the canon?
Click to expand...
This doesn't make sense to me. Shutter speed determines motion blur. That's the only thing that it does, other than provide a parameter for exposure. Motion blur is the same on all cameras for any given shutter speed. That's the only logical thing, and it'll make sense to you if you think about it for a moment.

what about shorter speeds like 1/100 and shorter. I've heard that you can get bad choppy movement as you shorten the shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Again, why don't you do tests for yourself and trust your eyes? 1/100 and shorter are conventionally perceived as too choppy, but that's mainly because film is most often shot at 1/48. However, the real issue isn't so much the shutter speed as the frame rate; 24 fps is inherently too choppy to reproduce realistically fluid motion. Most of us like it because we associate it with cinema, but there are some people out there who actually hate the stutter of 24 fps.
 
ydgmdlu,
I don't really need condescending remarks from you. Anyone who knows my posts from other forums knows I've done extremely exacting tests of 35mm adapters as well as other issues. I don't have time for that now , so I'm asking for the consensus opinion here - that's all. I've heard that there are issues unique to DSLR's with shutter speed, and I can't check my noise on a monitor the way I'm used to - that's why the EX-1 reference. Any actual help would be appreciated, but do you even have the camera yet?
 
there was a test for iso noise through the iso range with the lens cap on, don't have the link but you can look for it.

also, you might find a lot of low light real world test footage on vimeo.
 
Amr Rahmy said:
there was a test for iso noise through the iso range with the lens cap on, don't have the link but you can look for it.

also, you might find a lot of low light real world test footage on vimeo.
Click to expand...


That lens test was for a 5D if I am not mistaken. The sensor is different. If the test was for a 7D then it might be more applicable, but there is some speculation that the second on-board sensor in the 7D is there to help noise cleanup. If so, then a noise test between the 550D and the 7D wouldn't necessarily be a fair test.

Also these "low light" tests on Vimeo and places are worse than useless. I have yet to see anyone actually MEASURE how much light is present before shooting the tests. This makes them absolutely subject, and absolutely worthless in trying to compare results. Some don't even give basic camera parameters like what the F-Stop/ISO/Shutter speed is.
 
i think there was a 7d test if not mistaken, it is different than the t2i.

you can look at low light footage even if it doesn't have any info at all, if the footage have any light source your familiar with, or no light source at all, you can average what the camera can do or how it compares to other cameras, if you find a comparison video with another camera your familiar to, you can determine how much better or worse the camera is.

most test footage have some info in the title or description.
 
Lenilenapi said:
I don't really need condescending remarks from you. Anyone who knows my posts from other forums knows I've done extremely exacting tests of 35mm adapters as well as other issues. I don't have time for that now , so I'm asking for the consensus opinion here - that's all.
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No condescension intended. But I don't see why my questions weren't valid or fair. The fact that you're too busy to test is a shame, but you should've mentioned that upfront. Testing is still the only way to get a truly useful answer. However, the consensus seems to be that anything above 1600 should generally be avoided.

I've heard that there are issues unique to DSLR's with shutter speed
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What have you heard, from where have you heard it, and why would you believe it? Please don't take that the wrong way, but you shouldn't be concerned about anything unless you've learned the basics of what the issue is from a reputable source. Hearing about some sort of shutter speed issue from an anonymous person on the Internet is hardly useful without questioning it. If someone said that you couldn't use manual focus lenses on a DSLR, would you simply take it on faith?

As for shutter speed, I said that your question doesn't make sense, based on the general principles of shutter speed. So if you think that there's something about shutter speed on DSLRs that's worthy of concern, then you should clarify what it is. Help me make sense of your question.

I can't check my noise on a monitor the way I'm used to - that's why the EX-1 reference.
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That's fair enough, but you should've also mentioned that upfront. That's why I asked you why this was important.

Any actual help would be appreciated, but do you even have the camera yet?
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I've owned a 5D, a 7D, and a GH1 for several months. 1400 to 1500 of my post count are from the DSLR forums alone. I follow HDSLR information very closely.
 
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PerroneFord said:
That lens test was for a 5D if I am not mistaken. The sensor is different. If the test was for a 7D then it might be more applicable, but there is some speculation that the second on-board sensor in the 7D is there to help noise cleanup. If so, then a noise test between the 550D and the 7D wouldn't necessarily be a fair test.
Click to expand...

The 7d has 2 sensors? Or do you mean digic chips? Has anybody noticed a difference in low light performance between the 550d and 7d? I'm about to buy a 550d btw, hence the questions.
 
studio1972 said:
The 7d has 2 sensors? Or do you mean digic chips? Has anybody noticed a difference in low light performance between the 550d and 7d? I'm about to buy a 550d btw, hence the questions.
Click to expand...


Sorry, two digic chips. Second time I've made that mistake.
 
Thanks ydgmdlu,
Looks like a useful test and the ISO's are perfect for T2i test. What I don't get is how he kept the shutter speed and f stop the same while changing ISO?
Lenny
 
PerroneFord said:
Sorry, two digic chips. Second time I've made that mistake.
Click to expand...

I think the main reason for the 2 chips is that it takes stills at a really high rate, I doubt it would effect the noise at high ISOs compared to the 550d, but Maybe somebody with both cameras could confirm this?
 
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