shutter settings

Cees Mutsaers

Cees Mutsaers

Veteran
Recently when shooting in bright daylight in the 1080/25p mode i am using 1/120 sec. as shutter time in stead of 1/50 sec. which you get when the shutter is in off mode. I have the feeling that motion is more smooth. Can this be right or am I just fooling myself ??? What shutter speed do you guys use when there is plenty of light?? By the way untill now I made a lot of shots with panns just to see how the HPX300 is holding up with respect to RS and I am quite satisfied untill now.
 
Should be less smooth at 1/120th, more strobing, less blurring.
I'd stick with 180 degree shutter unless you have good reason not to.
Steve
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
Recently when shooting in bright daylight in the 1080/25p mode i am using 1/120 sec. as shutter time in stead of 1/50 sec. which you get when the shutter is in off mode.
Click to expand...

With my "American version" when I'm in 24P, the default shutter speed is 1/24. Are you sure that when the shutter is off that you're not getting a shutter speed of 1/25? You can tell by watching some moving action frame by frame, and if there is no gap of movement between frames, you're at 1/25th shutter. Many people don't like that 360 degree shutter, but I certainly do, and you get a full stop more light into the camera for better low light performance. It's the same with 30P - 1/30th shutter default for more light. Maybe you're confusing the lack of motion blur for the better look you're describing with 1/120th shutter.
 
If shooting 24p, wouldn't 180 degree shutter be 1/48th? And I believe you have to set this manually, right?
 
Yes I am "sure", to be honest I was also surprised but the shutter settings go from ....., 1/12.5, 1/50, 1/60, 1/120 etc. and 1/50 gave the same amount of light as switching the shutter off. So my conclusion was that when the shutter settings is switched off the default is 1/50 sec.


davideo.net said:
With my "American version" when I'm in 24P, the default shutter speed is 1/24. Are you sure that when the shutter is off that you're not getting a shutter speed of 1/25? You can tell by watching some moving action frame by frame, and if there is no gap of movement between frames, you're at 1/25th shutter. Many people don't like that 360 degree shutter, but I certainly do, and you get a full stop more light into the camera for better low light performance. It's the same with 30P - 1/30th shutter default for more light. Maybe you're confusing the lack of motion blur for the better look you're describing with 1/120th shutter.
Click to expand...
 
This test video is shot in 1080/25p and a shutter time of 1/120. Do you think that 1/50 would have given a better result and in what way ? If I enlarge the picture on my imac to full 24" display I am not very exited with the resolution/sharpness. The file was compressed to H.264, 32 Mbits/s. The video was intended for Youtube but he you know every body will enlarge it to full screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gam9kNOwllQ
 
I think a shutter of 50 would have been better as it is 180deg as described by Steve, 60 and 120 are more suited to NTSC frame rates.

As for the final video I think you may have done the wrong workflow for delivery and advise the following.

Shoot 1080i 25np AVCIntra 100
Import to FCP at native resolution (i.e re-wrap to pro res HQ)
Edit in this resolution pro res HQ
Export to a master pro res file in same resolution 1920x1080i 25np HQ
Create compressed file H264 1920x1080i 25np 5mbs
Upload to You Tube.

That way you are keeping the maximum resolution in your workflow as You Tube will do its own compression down from your 35mbs file and you will lose more resolution that way. 5mbs is the max I would recommend for you tube upload as any bigger it will take longer and you will not get any better result.

I personally only use 1280x720p 1.5mbs files for on-line but that is because I have really bad broadband at 500k and need to keep files smaller.
 
I still have the feeling I am doing something wrong because the resolution is not that great on a 24" display, see my questions below.

GaryNattrass said:
I think a shutter of 50 would have been better as it is 180deg as described by Steve, 60 and 120 are more suited to NTSC frame rates.

As for the final video I think you may have done the wrong workflow for delivery and advise the following.

Shoot 1080i 25np AVCIntra 100
Import to FCP at native resolution (i.e re-wrap to pro res HQ) : this goes automatically when you do "log and transfer" or do I have to change some settings in this window???

Edit in this resolution pro res HQ So that are the rewrapped mxf files to mov files I will be using
Export to a master pro res file in same resolution 1920x1080i 25np HQ


Create compressed file H264 1920x1080i 25np 5mbs
Upload to You Tube.

That way you are keeping the maximum resolution in your workflow as You Tube will do its own compression down from your 35mbs file and you will lose more resolution that way. 5mbs is the max I would recommend for you tube upload as any bigger it will take longer and you will not get any better result.

I personally only use 1280x720p 1.5mbs files for on-line but that is because I have really bad broadband at 500k and need to keep files smaller.
Click to expand...

Can you give me a you tube link of a video you made so I have some comparison material regarding the resolution on my 24" display

What cam settings do you recomment for filming a soccer training.
 
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Hi check the P2 plug in settings box in FCP log and transfer preferences and make sure it is set to Native, then the AVCIntra will be re-wrapped as pro res HQ.

The preferences are in the top right of the log and transfer left window just above media duration and you click on the little icon that looks like a cog wheel.

Yes once re-wrapped the .mov files wiill be the same resolution and bit rate as the AVCIntra.

Here is a link to some files that have been done with my workflows for checking :http://vimeo.com/user432548/videos

There are P2, AVCHD and HDV Z7 test files there

As for a soccer training I would shoot it 1920x1080i 50i with a shutter speed of 50 and use the BBC video settings if you want full HD, you may find for sport though that 1280x720p is a better format as it will be less jerky with skew and a lot of sport is shot 720 for that reason. I haven't done a lot of sports with my 301 but I have heard that 720 is better so it may be best for you to do some tests first.
 
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Hi Gary,

You beat me to it because I just discovered the "transfer preferences" menu. I never looked at it before but the "target format" was on native (but you can change it also to any prores 422 tast, why put it on native and not on prores 422 HQ if FCP is going to convert native to prores anyway ??

GaryNattrass said:
Hi check the P2 plug in settings box in FCP log and transfer preferences and make sure it is set to Native, then the AVCIntra will be re-wrapped as pro res HQ.

The preferences are in the top right of the log and transfer left window just above media duration and you click on the little icon that looks like a cog wheel.

Yes once re-wrapped the .mov files wiill be the same resolution and bit rate as the AVCIntra.

Here is a link to some files that have been done with my workflows for checking :http://vimeo.com/user432548/videos

There are P2, AVCHD and HDV Z7 test files there

As for a soccer training I would shoot it 1920x1080i 50i with a shutter speed of 50 and use the BBC video settings if you want full HD, you may find for sport though that 1280x720p is a better format as it will be less jerky with skew and a lot of sport is shot 720 for that reason. I haven't done a lot of sports with my 301 but I have heard that 720 is better so it may be best for you to do some tests first.
Click to expand...
 
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Cees Mutsaers said:
Hi Gary,

You beat me to it because I just discovered the "transfer preferences" menu. I never looked at it before but the "target format" was on native (but you can change it also to any prores 422 tast, why put it on native and not on prores 422 HQ if FCP is going to convert native to prores anyway ??
Click to expand...

Native is the setting to re-wrap it and it goes to pro res HQ if you then look in the sequence settings.
I don't know why they put pro res HQ on the list as well unless that is a full re-transcode to a different format that can be used on non intel mac's as they can not use AVCintra.

Maybe one of the other experts will know but I use native and that way it is fast to re-wrap and import and the format stays the same all the way through to delivery to the pro res HQ master.

it all seems to work very well on all my systems.
 
Hi Gary,

Thanks very much for your help. I will leave it on native :-))

Cees


GaryNattrass said:
Native is the setting to re-wrap it and it goes to pro res HQ if you then look in the sequence settings.
I don't know why they put pro res HQ on the list as well unless that is a full re-transcode to a different format that can be used on non intel mac's as they can not use AVCintra.

Maybe one of the other experts will know but I use native and that way it is fast to re-wrap and import and the format stays the same all the way through to delivery.
Click to expand...
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
Yes I am "sure", to be honest I was also surprised but the shutter settings go from ....., 1/12.5, 1/50, 1/60, 1/120 etc. and 1/50 gave the same amount of light as switching the shutter off. So my conclusion was that when the shutter settings is switched off the default is 1/50 sec.
Click to expand...

The "Off" setting should give you the same shutter speed as your frame rate (as the description implies). You should then see a 1 stop drop when turning it on to 1/50th sec.
Steve
 
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