Shutter Setting causing rolling lines

N

NB1

Active member
I was recently in europe shooting 24fps and had the shutter set at 50 and noticed that Ihad rolling lines in my footage. I have also noticed this in the US when shooting under floro's if someone could give me an explanation I would appreciate it thanks.
 
When in the states and you shoot under old (or old fashioned) flos you will get that problem...especially when shootiing at 1/50 shutter. All you need to do there is adjust your shutter (use anything but 1/50...which suits Europe better).
 
In the US you *must* use 1/60th, or 1/40th, or 1/30th. Using 1/50th will cause this to happen.

But it shouldn't happen in Europe at 1/50th.
 
Barry if we're under other kinds of light 1/50 is the best in US though right? Closest to 180º shutter for 24p?
 
Ben_B said:
Barry if we're under other kinds of light 1/50 is the best in US though right? Closest to 180º shutter for 24p?
Click to expand...
My thinking on this is that USA CMOS shooters should just abandon the whole 1/50th thing, for peace of mind's sake.

The kind of lights that will screw you on a CMOS camera include:
magnetic-ballast fluorescents (shop lights, older office lights, they're everywhere)
magnetic-ballast HMIs (the affordable ones, not the mega-expensive electronic HMIs)
mercury vapor lights (such as are found in gyms, stadiums, warehouses)
sodium vapor lights (such as streetlights)

In short, these things are everywhere. So, the question becomes -- how much do you really care about that tenth of a second? 1/60th is a perfectly filmlike shutter; the 1/48th thing is kind of a myth actually. Film cameras use all sorts of default shutter speeds, 1/48th is common but is by no means magical or even important. The CP16/R from Cinema Products was made in three versions, with a 144-degree, 156-degree, and 170-degree shutter angle. None of them delivered 1/48th exposure, yet they were enormously popular film cameras. The B&H filmo has, IIRC, a 210-degree shutter. The Konvas 35mm camera has a 150-degree shutter. In fact, I don't think I've ever owned any film camera that had a 180-degree shutter! Even in Super8 film cameras, 180 degrees is pretty much nonexistent; my Beaulieu 6008 had a 90-degree standard shutter (yes, 90 degrees by default!) and in "L.L." mode (Low Light mode) it was extended to 144 degrees (IIRC). But most Super8 cameras of later days were "XL" for extended low light performance, which meant that they had 220-degree shutters.

But it all looks like film. All of it.

So if you want to be obsessive over getting that last tenth of a second, you are putting your footage in peril of the waving/fluttering lines if you ever forget. Whereas if you just go with 1/60th, you never have to ever think about it or worry about it ever again.

(and, as always, for PAL users, or for NTSC shooters shooting in Europe or other 50Hz territories, stick it on 1/50th and forget about it).
 
everything Barry just posted plus:

Experiment people!

Data is cheap! (compared to film)

Start watching action/drama movies and try and count how many different shutter speeds are used for different feels...

This is the HDSLR revolution...go out and do something revolutionary!
:2vrolijk_08:
:kali:
 
Barry_Green said:
My thinking on this is that USA CMOS shooters should just abandon the whole 1/50th thing, for peace of mind's sake.

The kind of lights that will screw you on a CMOS camera include:
magnetic-ballast fluorescents (shop lights, older office lights, they're everywhere)
magnetic-ballast HMIs (the affordable ones, not the mega-expensive electronic HMIs)
mercury vapor lights (such as are found in gyms, stadiums, warehouses)
sodium vapor lights (such as streetlights)

In short, these things are everywhere. So, the question becomes -- how much do you really care about that tenth of a second? 1/60th is a perfectly filmlike shutter; the 1/48th thing is kind of a myth actually. Film cameras use all sorts of default shutter speeds, 1/48th is common but is by no means magical or even important. The CP16/R from Cinema Products was made in three versions, with a 144-degree, 156-degree, and 170-degree shutter angle. None of them delivered 1/48th exposure, yet they were enormously popular film cameras. The B&H filmo has, IIRC, a 210-degree shutter. The Konvas 35mm camera has a 150-degree shutter. In fact, I don't think I've ever owned any film camera that had a 180-degree shutter! Even in Super8 film cameras, 180 degrees is pretty much nonexistent; my Beaulieu 6008 had a 90-degree standard shutter (yes, 90 degrees by default!) and in "L.L." mode (Low Light mode) it was extended to 144 degrees (IIRC). But most Super8 cameras of later days were "XL" for extended low light performance, which meant that they had 220-degree shutters.

But it all looks like film. All of it.

So if you want to be obsessive over getting that last tenth of a second, you are putting your footage in peril of the waving/fluttering lines if you ever forget. Whereas if you just go with 1/60th, you never have to ever think about it or worry about it ever again.

(and, as always, for PAL users, or for NTSC shooters shooting in Europe or other 50Hz territories, stick it on 1/50th and forget about it).
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...yeah only time I've ever noticed it is under streetlights and I switched. Another time I had the issue and it was workable and I actually kept it at 1/50 because I needed the extra light and the bars moved so slowly on a contrasty image you actually didn't notice. (and I managed to color grade them out a bit.)

But yeah I know to keep an eye out and I know 1/60 is the solution.

We mostly shoot on incandescent, CFL, tungsten/halogen, and with daylight...I have scrubbed through many shots in the film I am working on and not once seen this problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top