Should "trying" really be encouraged?

[Pookie]

if you are not making a living out of this business then it is just a hobby.

to quote roger deakins "everyone has a pencil but there is only one william shakespeare"

But look up what people were telling him about some of his writing... he sucked.

Kept writing though didn't he? He should [according to this thread] have gone off and sat pouting for the rest of his life because he didn't get the constant pat on the head and encouragement.

TOUGHEN UP PEOPLE... Life is not a game.

 

[Brian_Rice]

if you are not making a living out of this business then it is just a hobby.to quote roger deakins "everyone has a pencil but there is only one william shakespeare"

Truth. And instead of replying to the longer response above yours I'll just respond here because it's related. I'm not saying that someone should not work at their craft, I'm saying everyone needs to stop encouraging them to do so.i don't need encouragement to eat or have sex or blink. Why give someone encouragement to *try* and *get better*? lol Again, they either should or they shouldn't, but they shouldn't get encouraged to keep trying or to even try in the first place. Do what you're compelled to do, as was described with the guitar.

 

[Brian_Rice]

But look up what people were telling him about some of his writing... he sucked.Kept writing though didn't he? He should [according to this thread] have gone off and sat pouting for the rest of his life because he didn't get the constant pat on the head and encouragement.TOUGHEN UP PEOPLE... Life is not a game.

Life...is not a game sir!!And everyone around you is cheating because no two resources are identical. **** is real Pookie!!!!

 

[filmmakerguy]

Well it's like Tarrantino said, new filmmakers shouldn't be worried about all the films that are out there because most of them are crap. They're like waves on the beach, nobody notices. But if you drop some dynamite into people's laps they'll take notice.

I think it's sort of irrelevant if people should be encouraged or discouraged because when you are truly motivated to do this, there is little to anything that can stop you. You almost have to have a ridiculous ego to even get into this thinking I'm going to take this little camera [likely not 35mm] and I'm going to make a movie that is better than the crap I see that comes out of Hollywood [million dollar budgets]. I mean at the heart of that, we're all a little crazy and Hollywood knows it.

However combine the Tarrantino mindset with a Stanley Kubrick mentality that you set a high quality standard for your work and keep going back/working on it until you get what is acceptable and you're at least if anything, in the game IF there is an audience for what you have to say.

I think the big thing about filmmaking is you have to be really dialed in to what audiences want and be willing to give it to them. Most indie filmmakers are not dialed in and put out horribly boring art films, or cheesy horror films or a knock off film of a very saturated concept/idea. Primarily because you're either not willing to take risks, or limit what you're willing to do based on what you perceive you have available to you.

At the end of the day, the sad fact is with all these filmmakers on this forum, all resources available and talent, we can't all come together to make it happen. Everyone is out to do it on their own and keeps failing. There really isn't a big success story yet of a DVXuser making a well received/acclaimed feature. And there are a lot of really talented people on this forum.

Which leads me to my last point, that of Brett Ratner where he mentions that when he went to NYU film school there were a lot of filmmakers much more talented than him yet many of them now are working in film labs. The point of that is to show it's not all about talent but about going for it and keeping at it.

Make enough work and keep pushing yourself and you WILL make it. You will receive a degree of success. I strongly believe that. Now the pace at which this occurs depends on your talents and ability to adjust to NOT making the same mistakes you made previously.

Many of us have the tendency to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again with projects. We get bad audio in one project and in another there is bad audio problems. And on top of that, we make mistakes that are KNOWN common mistakes by filmmakers and we look back and scratch our heads like, I can't believe I did that.

So it's sort of working out the bugs. But like I mentioned in another post, you'll never make it until you hone your writing skills or put in the effort to find great scripts. If the DVXuser fests have been a testament of anything, many things win because they have a great story. A great story shot on a DVX100 is better than a crappy story shot on a Red every time. So if you don't have a great story you're just spinning your wheels. I think if anyone should be discouraged, it's those who rush into production without having a script that is truly great or ready. You might as well flush your money down the toilet.

Like I've said before, video stores are full of movies with perfect cinematography, perfect acting with the best actors, with million dollar budgets. BUT you walk through the video store and you never rent these movies. You pick the boxes up and you put them back down. It doesn't matter what A-lister is in it, what it's shot on [35mm], who the DP was or anything. You simply will not watch it if you flip the box and read the synopsis and aren't interested. You won't even spend $1 at Redbox to watch it! A friend could give it to you for free to borrow and you still wouldn't watch it! It's not even about money, it's about wasting your time and taking your mind somewhere that you don't want to go.

I think I'm getting closer to figuring it all out and making strides in the right direction. Keep at it!

 

[Pookie]

life...is not a game sir!!and everyone around you is cheating because no two resources are identical. S**t is real pookie!!!! :d

Toughen up people...

Toughen up...

 

[Rick Burnett]

Truth. And instead of replying to the longer response above yours I'll just respond here because it's related. I'm not saying that someone should not work at their craft, I'm saying everyone needs to stop encouraging them to do so.i don't need encouragement to eat or have sex or blink. Why give someone encouragement to *try* and *get better*? lol Again, they either should or they shouldn't, but they shouldn't get encouraged to keep trying or to even try in the first place. Do what you're compelled to do, as was described with the guitar.

Because, encouragement goes along way in helping someone know that it not being easy is normal. This is the whole concept of helping and teaching someone. People get frustrated when they can't do something, and I am one of them. When I was learning a complicated Hendrix lead, a local musician said, "here, let me show you some things, it's a hard riff to play, but you'll get it, don't worry". It made me feel better knowing that it shouldn't have been easy to figure out. Sure, things come naturally easier for some people, but hard work DOES pay off. Encouragement helps people get through the slow hard learning parts that seem like they'll never overcome. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

 

[Brian_Rice]

Well it's like Tarrantino said, new filmmakers shouldn't be worried about all the films that are out there because most of them are crap. They're like waves on the beach, nobody notices. But if you drop some dynamite into people's laps they'll take notice. I think it's sort of irrelevant if people should be encouraged or discouraged because when you are truly motivated to do this, there is little to anything that can stop you. You almost have to have a ridiculous ego to even get into this thinking I'm going to take this little camera [likely not 35mm] and I'm going to make a movie that is better than the crap I see that comes out of Hollywood [million dollar budgets]. I mean at the heart of that, we're all a little crazy and Hollywood knows it.However combine the Tarrantino mindset with a Stanley Kubrick mentality that you set a high quality standard for your work and keep going back/working on it until you get what is acceptable and you're at least if anything, in the game IF there is an audience for what you have to say.I think the big thing about filmmaking is you have to be really dialed in to what audiences want and be willing to give it to them. Most indie filmmakers are not dialed in and put out horribly boring art films, or cheesy horror films or a knock off film of a very saturated concept/idea. Primarily because you're either not willing to take risks, or limit what you're willing to do based on what you perceive you have available to you. At the end of the day, the sad fact is with all these filmmakers on this forum, all resources available and talent, we can't all come together to make it happen. Everyone is out to do it on their own and keeps failing. There really isn't a big success story yet of a DVXuser making a well received/acclaimed feature. And there are a lot of really talented people on this forum.Which leads me to my last point, that of Brett Ratner where he mentions that when he went to NYU film school there were a lot of filmmakers much more talented than him yet many of them now are working in film labs. The point of that is to show it's not all about talent but about going for it and keeping at it.Make enough work and keep pushing yourself and you WILL make it. You will receive a degree of success. I strongly believe that. Now the pace at which this occurs depends on your talents and ability to adjust to NOT making the same mistakes you made previously.Many of us have the tendency to continue to make the same mistakes over and over again with projects. We get bad audio in one project and in another there is bad audio problems. And on top of that, we make mistakes that are KNOWN common mistakes by filmmakers and we look back and scratch our heads like, I can't believe I did that.So it's sort of working out the bugs. But like I mentioned in another post, you'll never make it until you hone your writing skills or put in the effort to find great scripts. If the DVXuser fests have been a testament of anything, many things win because they have a great story. A great story shot on a DVX100 is better than a crappy story shot on a Red every time. So if you don't have a great story you're just spinning your wheels. I think if anyone should be discouraged, it's those who rush into production without having a script that is truly great or ready. You might as well flush your money down the toilet.Like I've said before, video stores are full of movies with perfect cinematography, perfect acting with the best actors, with million dollar budgets. BUT you walk through the video store and you never rent these movies. You pick the boxes up and you put them back down. It doesn't matter what A-lister is in it, what it's shot on [35mm], who the DP was or anything. You simply will not watch it if you flip the box and read the synopsis and aren't interested. You won't even spend $1 at Redbox to watch it! A friend could give it to you for free to borrow and you still wouldn't watch it! It's not even about money, it's about wasting your time and taking your mind somewhere that you don't want to go.I think I'm getting closer to figuring it all out and making strides in the right direction. Keep at it!

Wait, so do you think people making unwatchable art should be encouraged? I couldn't tell. lol

 

[Brian_Rice]

Because, encouragement goes along way in helping someone know that it not being easy is normal. This is the whole concept of helping and teaching someone. People get frustrated when they can't do something, and I am one of them. When I was learning a complicated Hendrix lead, a local musician said, "here, let me show you some things, it's a hard riff to play, but you'll get it, don't worry". It made me feel better knowing that it shouldn't have been easy to figure out. Sure, things come naturally easier for some people, but hard work DOES pay off. Encouragement helps people get through the slow hard learning parts that seem like they'll never overcome. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Me thinks you're confusing being a teacher with being a peer. If I hire someone to teach my stupid ass, they damn well better encourage me. How else they gonna get paid?But why should we, as peers, en masse, encourage. Why should we care, in the least, that someone *tried*. I mean, it's nice if my mommy thinks it's good that I tried (and failed). But hopefully even my mommy would explain to me that trying is not accomplishing anything but practice. And I hope my mommy would also sit me down and say, "Brian. I will never, ever encourage you to practice at anything in life. Do whatever you are compelled to do." Of course she didn't do that. She shoved a violin into my throat and forced me to play that wretched ****ing instrument for years! But just because my mom sucked as a parent doesn't mean we should suck as peers! Yes?

 

[Rick Burnett]

Me thinks you're confusing being a teacher with being a peer. If I hire someone to teach my stupid ass, they damn well better encourage me. How else they gonna get paid?But why should we, as peers, en masse, encourage. Why should we care, in the least, that someone *tried*. I mean, it's nice if my mommy thinks it's good that I tried (and failed). But hopefully even my mommy would explain to me that trying is not accomplishing anything but practice. And I hope my mommy would also sit me down and say, "Brian. I will never, ever encourage you to practice at anything in life. Do whatever you are compelled to do." Or course she didn't do that. She shoved a violin into my throat and forced me to play that wretched poo pooing instrument for years! But just because my mom sucked as a parent doesn't mean we should suck as peers! Yes?

Absolutely not. The nature of a community is to work together to make a greater whole, and at least in my time at DVXUser, has been the underlying message that at least the moderators have tried to encourage with people. Let me put it to you this way, there are MANY people on this board that are absolutely HORRIBLE at being a forum user. I don't tell them to go away and never post again. I encourage them to learn how to communicate better and be a positive influence in the community here, and not be a negative influence. I encourage them to learn how to communicate better so that people don't misunderstand what they are trying to say. I actually take the time to write them and explain why I deleted their post, or, ask them to change it instead of me deleting it so they have the experience of understanding why and what happened. In almost ALL of those cases, those people have contributed over and over in positive ways here.

Being a peer is about encouragement just as much. When I'm sitting with my friends writing music, and they are having a hard time working a bit out, I encourage them. I want them to learn how to do something that might be easy for me because then we both know. That's the type of attitude that I try to foster here. If someone comes to this forum for help, even if their material is really poorly done, I do take the effort to try and give some constructive criticism and encourage them to keep working at it so they know its not easy.

I think it's important to realize that people come here for MANY different reasons. Some people ARE here to learn, as students, hoping to gleam information from those that have walked the path before them. We are NOT all equal in what we know, what we do. The only thing we KNOW we have in common is that we belong to DVXUser, and that's it!

Whether encouragement comes from your parents, your friends, your peers, your employer, your partner, your idol, it doesn't matter. Encouraging someone doesn't imply you are telling them they are good, it just means you are telling them to keep at it. You can critique someones work AND encourage them to keep at it. I like helping others myself, that's why I do it.

 

[SPZ]

Rick, couldn't have said better myself. Great sequence of posts here. Couldn't agree more.

Its a hard road but why make it harder to the others? In the end determination, talent and hard work will separate the dos and do nots. However, by encouraging and sharing with others I'm sure many more would be able to share unique and worthy films/pieces/art.

It was through determination and through lot of sh#t that I got to were I am today (not a bad position) but as much as it toughened me up towards the marketplace, I certainly feel that this didn't need to be. We are in interesting times, specially in this internet/global community age. Take this dvxuser site, for example. It has helped me- and I tried to help others- for more than 7 years. Ecouragement is important. Sharing experience and advice ditto. If one went through sh#it, one can share this so that others don't make the same mistakes. To succeed, to improve in film, storytelling, as much as you learn by reading, watching, the main place were you end up learning is by doing it. I think this is true for any type of art or creative work. Specifficaly about film making, I think it was Rodriguez that said that everyone has at least 10 poor movies inside of him until one starts to get reasonable, so one might as well get it over with and make them. Criticism is good, but Constructive criticism. By being constructive means one needs to say WHY to all its criticism.

In our field of work, specially if you are doing entertainment or film, the most cruel of critics is the audience. It doesn't care about your budget limitations, your hard work, your use of non actors, your use of canned music or of poor lighting. It just says "i didn't liked it" or "I liked it". We should encourage our peers to get over the setbacks and also share our mistakes and knowledge. Like some ancient philosopher said, All I know is that i know nothing, we are learning every day, so why not share what we think we know with each other?

 

[n1c02]

Very well said guys.. thank you..

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

This whole thread is wacky. I still don't understand what the OP hopes to achieve by discouraging people. I'm thinking of the OP's story of discouraging someone who's great at another art form from writing. To the OP: The story you described just makes you sound like a dick. There's a difference between honesty and being an asshole. People tend to mix these things up. And "constructive criticism" doesn't necessarily mean saying something is good but needs work, or that you even have to compliment anything. It just means pointing out the flaws so they can learn from it. But just saying "this is the worst thing I've ever read and you should never write again" without any valid criticism supported by evidence, is just being a dick. And the fact that you equate discouraging someone from attempting to work in a different art form to "practically saving his life" just makes you sound like a megalomaniac. How many art form actually have prodigies? Most art forms have to be worked at before they can be perfected. Why should anyone stick to one art form? You can be good in one art form, but there's always the possibility of being good in another. But you can't know it unless you TRY. As in, attempting something you haven't done before, without knowing what the results will be. It's called experimentation. I've been making movies since I was 12, and of course, my early movies sucked (I still don't think I'm that good yet, but I'm a lot better 12 years later) but in retrospect, they were experiments, and they were invaluable. I didn't know what my voice was when I was a kid, nor when I was a teenager. But even if I decided to get into filmmaking as an adult, I believe I'd ostensibly be at the same level as the 12 year old. It might not be as crappy, because I'd have more years of watching better movies before making my first film, but I imagine it would be still pretty amateurish. I can relate to wanting to tell people they suck. Perhaps it's just rotten human nature, I don't know. When I was 19, I had a friend who was going to NYU and studying film, and I ripped one of his student films to shreds, and I didn't feel better about myself after. I realized it was totally unnecessary. I achieved absolutely nothing besides being a dick. I don't even know why I cared. Maybe it was pure territoriality. In high school, he never expressed any interest in filmmaking. That was my thing. I was the filmmaker. Sure, I was being honest. But that doesn't mean I wasn't also being a dick. It wasn't constructive in the least. When I first read your original post, I thought your problem was oversaturation of the market, but you later said that it wasn't your concern. So now I'm very confused as to what the point of this thread is. But moreso, why do you even care if people are taking a stab at film, writing, or any art form? What effect does it ultimately have on you? What do you hope to gain in life by behaving this way?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Also, as it's kind of already been said, encouragement doesn't necessarily mean you're telling someone they're good when they're not, it just means you're telling someone they can get good if they keep trying. It's been said that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to get good at something.

 

[DanielRutter]

I'm on the fence here in regards to whether or not you should encourage people to try.

If I told my girlfriend, who is a reasonably talented singer who only needs to be more motivated to produce more of her own stuff... that I thought she should stop trying, because she's not good (she is, but she needs to keep working on it)... that'd be it, I'd be the reason her dream is dead. I feel in this case, it's not needed because overly sensitive people will take it to heart and make it your fault they "gave up".

As a completely novice "Film" maker, I believe that if I was told to give up, because I'm not motivated enough to learn... then I'd tell you quite simply to go eff yourself. I know I'm not motivated, but I've learnt more about making movies by making **** short films than I ever learnt carving meat in an Abattoir (my last job over a year ago). I'd rather be behind or in front of my crappy little camcorder than slaving my butt off in some endless 9-5 job. If I end up broke when I'm old, I'll have a life of personal achievements behind me to be proud of.

I have a friend who is still learning the basics of film making, like creative editing and operating a camcorder. He's a talented writer, but cannot frame a shot to save his life (well, couldn't... until I worked with him). If I stopped him one day and said "I don't think you've got what it takes to be a film maker or an actor"... what would that do to him? I have a feeling he's much like me, he'd punch me in the face.

I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this. I do agree, some people should not be encouraged. College dropouts with rich uncle's inheritance would be best left well away from the film making scene, or at best sent in the direction of the porn industry. Encouraging people with a showing talent is what I'd be doing, but I'd never personally tell somebody that their dreams are pointless.

 

[bhal1075]

I don't think he's saying not to encourage them, just to be honest. The two are completely different. Society today coddles everyone. If some showed a horrible movie and everyone told them they did a great job, keep up the good work, how would they ever learn. I tell my kids all the time if they suck at something, but that it takes a lot of practice to get good at anything, so they need to really enjoy it to put that much time and effort into it. The problem with the you-tube generation is every wants their 15 minutes of fame. The most obvious example I can think of this is watching American Idol and those people that have been told all their life how great they are, get some honest criticism and breakdown because they can't handle it. I wish someone told Kim Kardashian she had no talent earlier in life, maybe would wouldn't be plagued by her and her family thinking everyone wants to know the details of their life 24/7. And if you think the you-tube generation is bad, wait until the Toddler & Tiarra generation gets older.

 

[Brian_Rice]

In case my original rant was at all muddled, here's what I believe:

Encourage those who you *know* have innate talent or who you *personally believe* has an interesting concept, design or invention.

Never encourage anyone to try or to keep trying if you *know* they do not have innate talent and/or you *personally believe* they do not have an interesting concept, design or invention.

People keep mentioing critiques. I give hours of my time to critiquing and helping those to get better who I know have talent and potential.

Rudy did not have talent or potential. I know we like to watch movies about the underdog, and hey -- I think it's great when someone pushes themselves to their furthest limits in life. We all should. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, *discouragement* typically helps people more than encouragement. So if you're "on the fence", this should push you over the edge. Even if you feel like you don't *know* whether or not someone has any talent whatsoever, (which is a tough place to be if you're calling yourself creating anything) but your guts just tell you that they suck, discourage them! Either way they'll be better for it.

And I'm not talking about your mommy or your friends or your wife. I've been lucky enough to have extremely discouraging people in my life, but, for instance, I have a friend who thinks I walk on water as an artist no matter what crap thing I do. He's a good friend to have, but he does nothing to help me be better. Encouragement does nothing but urge people who cannot do to keep on *trying*.

And if you don't think that turning someone off to an art form that they shouldn't be invested in in the first place does not equate "saving their life", then you just ain't doing it right. It's like telling that dumb ass friend of yours who's about to go into the military that they don't have the right mind for it, it's like telling your buddy that the girl he's about to marry is an insane person. Of course it's saving their life. Are you kidding? Anyone who's committed their life to whatever craft understands the complete and total sacrifice that comes with said craft. This is not a game. People end up on street corners addicted to heroine and selling their body for scraps because they wanted to be a ****ing actor -- because they BELIEVED and were ENCOURAGED to TRY. People die for this stuff every day, and most of them should have never been there in the first place. But then they were inspired via an inspiration not internal and their life was wasted.

Make no mistake, for a large portion of the population, FAME and RICHES twist and warp perception. Most artists wouldn't mind a little extra cash, but I don't know a single decent artist who would ever want CULTURAL FAME. Why would you? The second you become famous you can no longer effectively observe. For artsist, fame is the two-headed monster that they require in order to achieve their goals. But for the average joe, fame is what brings them free hooch and mass adoration. It's a virus with a twinkling allure.

People have become too polite and, as Pookie pointed out, PC. Stop the hand holding. If someone says "LOOK AT THIS AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK" stop nestling them in the nook of your arm while you gently explain to them how if they would just do XYZ thing they would improve even when you know, in fact, that even if they were to improve, what they have to say would still be worthless.

I know untalented people can have fans, I know untalented people can make money, I know that dumb people who have nothing whatsoever to add to an examination of the human experience can still be successful and influential. But why would anyone in this world want to *encourage* that, and worse -- encourage people to *be* that?

The world has enough Michael Bays and mindless nothingness to fill the void of our waking lives. The world has enough people in art specifically in pursuit of a perceived lifestyle.

So please, do your part and discourage? You, them and the world will be better for it.

I want my auto mechanic working on my car, not telling kids why they should be making homemade pornos to "break in" to the movies.

Here's a tip -- if you have to "break in" to something, maybe you don't belong there.

 

[Nathyn]

Thank god I grew up LONG before "feelings" were first on the agenda.

Dude, yes. Emotionalism is destroying our country.

Make no mistake, for a large portion of the population, FAME and RICHES twist and warp perception. Most artists wouldn't mind a little extra cash, but I don't know a single decent artist who would ever want CULTURAL FAME. Why would you? The second you become famous you can no longer effectively observe.

That depends on a lot of things, mainly on how you become famous. If you wait for Hollywood to make you then yes they will own and control you. But you can use the resources if you get there.

People have become too polite and, as Pookie pointed out, PC. Stop the hand holding. If someone says "LOOK AT THIS AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK" stop nestling them in the nook of your arm while you gently explain to them how if they would just do XYZ thing they would improve even when you know, in fact, that even if they were to improve, what they have to say would still be worthless.

Why is it worthless? It's what they want to say. Isn't that their choice. I know a lot of people who do films for fun and actually end up getting a lot of attention that way.

I know untalented people can have fans, I know untalented people can make money, I know that dumb people who have nothing whatsoever to add to an examination of the human experience can still be successful and influential. But why would anyone in this world want to *encourage* that, and worse -- encourage people to *be* that?

Because it's not your choice. People choice to express themselves as they please. And I wouldn't discourage them I would tell them how to improve and if they don't listen then it's on them. But at least tell them so they'll know. When people create most times it's for their enjoyment. I have a friend whose incredibly talented and I can't get her to become "business minded" about her stuff for anything.

The world has enough Michael Bays and mindless nothingness to fill the void of our waking lives. The world has enough people in art specifically in pursuit of a perceived lifestyle.

So. I like Michael Bay. He makes fun action films. And we're all in pursuit of some kind of lifestyle in one way or the other so I don't really get that argument. While I may not agree with the "perceived" lifestyle the person want to live, it better to speak with them and maybe encourage them to move in a different direction then simply them they're bad and should try. I've gotten more out of life by telling people how-to than telling people to stop.

So please, do your part and discourage? You, them and the world will be better for it.

I will do no such thing.

I want my auto mechanic working on my car, not telling kids why they should be making homemade pornos to "break in" to the movies.

I don't know anyone who says to make "homemade pornos" to break into movies. I'm sure someone believes this but most of the times people are told to make cheap horror films.

Here's a tip -- if you have to "break in" to something, maybe you don't belong there.

Simply not true. Because a person isn't connected or don't know the right people (which is how people usually "break in" not because of talent) doesn't mean they shouldn't try for it if it's what they want to do. I do agree discouragement can help, but many times you can encourage people to do greater work and grow. I'd prefer to do that.

-Nate

 

[Darren Levine]

wow, need to chime in, but must keep out of rant mode, must try....


theres a distinction that needs to be emphasized, because there are two different people being referred to here: the PASSIONATE AND DEDICATED, and then there are the GETTERDONERS, the term i coined a few threads ago for those who just want to "try" and don't put any actual constructive effort into learning what they need to learn before diving head first into a venture, it's just about getting it done.

the passionate and dedicated do research, they learn, they construct, they build a team of capable people around them, they plan, they script, they trial, etc.... these are the people that make films that matter and in their case, "trying" isn't even relevant, because they are putting in the actual dilligence.

on the other end, the GetterDoner, well, they get an idea in their head that they MUST get done, because its wicked awesome! they don't learn what should be learned before making a film, they don't make a second draft let alone a proper formatted first draft, they don't use real actors they use family members and friends who have never acted, they just reach in the back of their pants, grab a steaming wad of fecal video, and throw it at the wall and look at it as if it were the golden age of cinema.

This, the GetterDoner, should NOT be encouraged by ANYONE, for ANY reason, UNLESS.... they are 10 years old and making a video for sh*its and giggles and have no idea what vimeo or a festival are. thats where the learning process might start at a young age.

i am all for someone with no experience trying to make something, but only if they are passionate and dedicated and do the proper research before diving in.

and yea, it's a tough world, and if you have no stomach for criticism, well.... might wanna choose a less critical profession

 

[Darren Levine]

bah, brian you finished your rant before i could scratch mine together

 

[Rick Burnett]

I still don't agree. You aren't "Saving someones life." I will NEVER be the person to tell you that I am absolutely confident I can look at someone and say "I can judge your talent and know you should never do this and you'll never be good at it." Sure, I can critique what they've currently done and will do so if asked, but to say that *I* know their capability in the future is arrogance. I've watched many people that for long periods of time, never *got it* only to finally climb over that hump in their capability and do amazing things.

Sure, there are a lot of people with horrible attitudes, people that don't listen and think they know everything. This, however, is a different problem. You can't encourage someone like this because they are not able to understand encouragement. They feel like they've already mastered everything. I've also seen and worked with these sorts of people. Their reality check is coming, and nothing you will say or do will change them because, at the end of the day, it's an ego problem.

As a great friend once told me "It's not the final product that matters, it's the journey" and I like that. I like thinking about all the people that have helped and encouraged me to be better. Even if I hear someone that is HORRIBLE, as long as they are receptive and really want to learn more, I help them, I encourage them. They have the passion even if they don't have the skill (yet). If they are just looking to stroke their ego and that's it, then no, I don't encourage them.

I would tell you this though Brian, even though I've not read your novels. If you enjoy writing, then write. Why does it have to be about what others think? Why does it have to lead to a career? I don't write because I want to sell my novels to others, I write because *I* enjoy developing a fictional world where I control EVERYTHING that happens. Even if your father or your wife doesn't like your writing, so what. It's not always about being the best at it, it's about doing something you love. THAT is what matters.