Should I just buy the 150 instead of waiting to see whats comes out next?

J

jrod81

Veteran
My plan was to wait until new announcements from March (first quarter) stuff... but I don't know that I have the time to wait. Right now I am shooting everything with a T2i and I really need a proper camcorder for most of my shoots. I was going to just go with the HMC150 but felt I should wait- but is there any camera in this price range worth waiting for or is the HMC going to still beat whatever is coming out... I have looked at a CMOS Canon that doesn't really seem to be the right answer... anything that you guys know of in the $3000-$4000 range?
 
If you need to shoot now then you need a camera now. If you can wait, something else will always come along.

However, as you've probably noticed, things seem to be going all CMOS at the moment (GH2, AF101, HMC80, HMC40) so I wouldn't like to guarantee any new CCD cameras coming along any time soon. It's possible, but the odds are getting shorter.
 
jrod81 said:
and the downfall of CMOS is rolling shutter? what else?
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Rolling shutter and flash banding.

We almost never see a rolling shutter problem because we don't hand hold (which is just asking for 'shaky cam') and we don't do ridiculously fast pans either. Both of them just scream 'amateur'!

Flash banding is more of an issue, because there's not many weddings without lots of people with P&S cameras flashing all over the place.
 
Few other things: Rolling shutters usually have noticeable "jello" look they are moving around a lot. Also, most DSLRs will introduce 'Moire' to patterns on fabrics.

Good thing is most issues with CMOS sensors can be avoided once you know what causes what.

The HMC150 is a very nice camera, it also has a solid resale value if you were to upgrade later on.
 
Here is a fun little story I like to tell... the TV station I work at (top 15 market and network affiliate... and thus has a decent budget) is all P2. Not sure of the model numbers of all the cameras (we phased in over a while, so it's not consistent), but most of them are 1080p/24 capable. We also have a Sony HDCam up in the promotions department. For a series of promotional spots spot, rather than doing them internally, we hired some "Pros from Dover" and brought in a company from the East Coast to do them. They hired a local shooter to shoot the spots that was shooting DVCProHD... but his camera was 10 years old and only capable of 720p. On tape. It wasn't the latest or greatest by far... he had access to our cameras that were much newer. But he used his 720p tape camera and it didn't prevent him from getting work.

And the spots, image wise, looked pretty darn good.

If you have paying work, get the HMC150. At around $2,700 on B&H it's a great deal, regardless of what comes out next.
 
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The real advantage to waiting is that current HMC150 prices may lower. But, they also may not lower, or may lower so insignificantly that it wasn't worth waiting.

A new DVX100b is currently $2400 at B&H.

The HMC150 is a damn fine camera that turned out to be a better investment than I ever dared to imagine. If you buy it -- it'll do the job. On the other hand, if I was in the market for a new cheap camera at the moment, I'd take that Canon XF100 very, very seriously.
 
If you're working, it's a no brainer. Get a camera. Get what you can afford.

If you're not working, get a camera. Shoot tests, shoot experiments, just shoot.

If your interest is just researching cameras but not actually, y'know, setting up some lights and getting some sort of concept into editing and grading - by all means, wait. Wait for the Scarlet (hey, could be this summer! I'll buy one!). Wait until you can afford an AF100. Wait until you're retired and have your all savings to spend on an Alexa.

By the time the "next" thing hits, you'll get nervous about the next-next thing. A 150 should hold great resale value (no tape transport). You could easily make up the used-camera-eBay-sale loss with one shoot. Heck, with a half day.

I just shot a broadcast spot for a new brand - I used the HMC for the spokes-lady dialogue stuff, and the T2i for all the background plates (artsy low DOF stuff behind the talking head). Client is blowed away. It's a nice camera. It'll bite your ass if you don't test it for a given style or project, much like any camera. The current $2700 reflects a recent $200-ish price drop. Will it drop more? Who cares if you're scheduling work or have camera tests to do.

Nobody here can tell you whether to buy something or not. There's no secret-next-camera-release knowledge here that can't be found with basic googling. Do you need a camera now? Buy one. Can you wait? then wait.
 
the xf100 is about the only camera i see coming out in the next bit that is of interest to me... i am really wanting to know if it will be native editing in FCP or if transcoding is still needed... i looked at the JVC HM100 to be able to do this and i liked the form of the camera but too many bad reviews talked me out of it.
 
could you post that project... i'd like to see the t2i/hmc combo with a talking head...



Michael Carter said:
If you're working, it's a no brainer. Get a camera. Get what you can afford

I just shot a broadcast spot for a new brand - I used the HMC for the spokes-lady dialogue stuff, and the T2i for all the background plates (artsy low DOF stuff behind the talking head). Client is blowed away. It's a nice camera. It'll bite your ass if you don't test it for a given style or project, much like any camera. The current $2700 reflects a recent $200-ish price drop. Will it drop more? Who cares if you're scheduling work or have camera tests to do.

Nobody here can tell you whether to buy something or not. There's no secret-next-camera-release knowledge here that can't be found with basic googling. Do you need a camera now? Buy one. Can you wait? then wait.
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the 8gb cards are pretty cheap and probably too small to be of value to me... so it looks like this gives me some new batteries but other than that it looks like the standard set up from BH which i think has dropped to $2700- so i think $3000 is not going to be quite a good enough deal to be tempting to me
 
jrod81 i can do $2700. i've only used the camera a couple of times. i haven't been shooting much, so its just too much camera to be sitting around not being used.
 
jrod81 said:
the xf100 is about the only camera i see coming out in the next bit that is of interest to me... i am really wanting to know if it will be native editing in FCP or if transcoding is still needed... i looked at the JVC HM100 to be able to do this and i liked the form of the camera but too many bad reviews talked me out of it.
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Just drop it in the timeline. Does not require as powerful a CPU to edit.
 
jrod81 said:
the 8gb cards are pretty cheap and probably too small to be of value to me...
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Don't knock 'em, especially for dramatic stuff or TV spot sorts of things (lots of shorter takes). The spot I just shot went 2 hours; I shot everything greenscreen and also on white (final was a white BG with floating graphics, and I ended up luma keying 80% of the shots, a little cleaner, a lot less tweaking). Towards the end the client was "when are you gonna change a card? Aren't you full?" (This was a 16GB card). Thing wasn't even 1/4 full. AVCHD files are pretty small. I kind of prefer 8 GB cards, seems a little easier to get organized for post if I put specific parts of the day on single cards.
 
jrod81 said:
could you post that project... i'd like to see the t2i/hmc combo with a talking head...
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I'll post it in the HMC forum when it's live - right now it's a rough edit without grading, someone forgot to get the toll free number going... not my chob, maing!

All the floating BG plates were shot with a T2i & 28mm lens at their office/HQ.

Here's a couple grabs:

grab1.jpg

grab2.jpg
 
i'd love to pick your brain about this process to mimic for a law firm i do work for... once you get it live i would love to see it and maybe we could discuss some details if you don't mind.
thanks
jared

Michael Carter said:
I'll post it in the HMC forum when it's live - right now it's a rough edit without grading, someone forgot to get the toll free number going... not my chob, maing!

All the floating BG plates were shot with a T2i & 28mm lens at their office/HQ.

Here's a couple grabs:

View attachment 30515

View attachment 30514
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jrod81 said:
i'd love to pick your brain about this process to mimic for a law firm i do work for.
jared
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Sure thing, but not much too it - big, soft light on the talent, and evenly-lit screen.

The DSLR stuff was done with a couple twin biax flos and a few of those Alzo HID's - I'm really liking the low-amps stuff for location work, and I'm getting as much light as bringing a bunch of 500 (or 750 gelled) fresnels.

The two issues I had:

Audio - I ran a hyper to the HMC, it was boomed from a stand; there were two shots where she stepped into the shot while talking. I had taped the bottoms of her shoes to keep the seamless clean, but the actual footsteps really came through. In hindsight I probably would have tried a sound blanket under the paper - but would that just wrinkle up? I dunno, that's why we have sound guys!

Keying - I did a ton of tests with the 150 in my studio and pulled all kinds of keys - I was really jazzed how good the keys I was getting looked; but the greenscreen stuff from this shoot was a little rough, and the biggest difference was (a) I was shooting around F4-F8 at the studio but about 2.8 on the set, and (b) I used savage chromakey green seamless on set, though it would be easier than stretching and steaming. But the savage paper is noticeably less saturated than the cheapest eBay muslins. Testing isn't worth much if you don't exactly replicate your test on set I suppose.

I did a rough approval edit of just the girl with titles/graphics, then shot the DSLR stuff - that was a pretty easy after effects process to finish up.
 
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