Should DVXUSER start a production company?

[mvetanen]

I want to learn in the business of filmmaking and how I want to learn as a filmmaker.

Actually, production is just one of the three legs of business. The three legs of business is:

Sales/marketing
Production
Accounting/finances

lots of filmmakers solely focus on Production, sort of making a one leg stool. If you ever sat on a one leg stool, it is easy to tip over. A two leg stool is not much better either.

As a small business owner who does video productions it is not easy to manage all three aspects of a company. If one of the legs of the company is weak or non-existent the whole company suffers and if not corrected is doomed.

Film financing and management is itself an entire different skill set than filmmaking, as you have noticed. It is a specialty field where you would have to do a lot of research and study to figure out where to start, who to talk to, and where to go.

Film sales/distribution is also a specialty market that again is very different from filmmaking that again requires knowledge of where to go, who to talk to before you start.

Most Indie filmmakers and video production individuals tend to be all three (Sales/Producer/Accountant) to some degree, or enough to not create a disaster for themselves. It is unlikely that one person can master all three, to become that uber elusive mythical filmmaker.

What I hear you saying is that you want people to come together to fulfill the three areas of business....Sales people to sell the ideas, financiers to fund the ideas and production teams to produce the ideas to marketable products. THIS CAN HAPPEN IF YOU SEED IT WITH STARTUP MONEY!!! Most people who have experience in one of these three fields are happy to give advice and tips, but to actually do work for you they will want something for themselves out of it. You see there has to be a "what's in it for me" aspect with your idea or it all 'pie in the sky' waste of time sort stuff.

If you are looking for believers in your ideas, who will work for a future payoff (that is investment you know), then you are talking about faith and trust...and who are you again?

So your idea works ONLY IF YOU SEED IT WITH STARTUP FUNDING or if you can bring in someone who has has lots of credibility and industry experience who can encourage the industry to invest time and resources.

Years ago this lawyer guy showed up here in Portland trying to do exactly what you want to do. He put out lots of ads on Craigslist and other filmmaker sites about starting up a production company. He got everyone together and talked about his plan to make films for profits, though everyone would have to put the work up front for a deferred payout.

The more experienced filmmakers saw that the guy had no startup money and no social status,. Heck, even if he was the local TV weather guy he would have some social influence, but he was not even that! So, they bailed on the guy.

Those that stayed said that they had a few more meetings where the guy kept hinting that they all needed to chip in and fund the film he wanted to make, and with their funds and work they would get to learn filmmakeing and have a product to sell. Yeah.....Well, what do you get when you take amateur filmmakers who are financially broke, put them in a room and ask them to make a film?

The lawyer guy vanished and was never heard from again. From time to time, someone pops up and starts putting out calls for local filmmakers to gather together to pour our creative juices into a cup and create something....So, After a few beers on the poor sods dime, the filmmakers who came for the free food and drinks more or less told the person to call them once they get a budget. Those that stay are the newbies, the armatures and the hopeful actors looking for a break. When the guy who started the party realized that nobody has any startup cash to donate to their project and nobody who was famous showed up to want to work with them; they then vanished as quickly as they came.

Moral of the story is that there are a lot of STARRY EYED people out there who have dreams of becoming a successful film mogul. It't not that it cannot be done, it's that who wants to do this are often people who have nothing to start with. People with resources who want to make films often contact a filmmaker who has impressed them and present their desires with a budget. I actually had such a meeting today with a nice couple for a few video projects they wanted.

Your desire to learn filmmaking is clear, as is your desire to learn the Business of films. Film school is a suggestion, though if that is not an option then find filmmakers who make films and work with them. I think Chicago has a few filmmakers who will be happy to have you on hand.

So, best of luck to you. I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Kegan]

I've followed the thread and I'll admit you can sell, just not to me and from the looks of it...not many others on the board. Good on you for trying however.

You type in massive blocks of text - number one warning sign of an aggressive sales person and that could be good, if this wasn't an internet forum. I'm picking out key parts of this and especially with your last post, it seems evident from my point of view that you just want to ride on someone's coattails for $500. What do you mean jump in on a project that's halfway through and put up 2k? "Buckets of marketing"? What in the hell is that? How many films have you marketed?

What EXACTLY is your end goal here? To "learn the business of filmmaking"? Seriously? It sounds more like you want to do some guerilla type promoting of the film in your town and triumph in the success of it, not because of your tiny marketing campaign...but moreso the abilities of the talented director/producer. If this director or producer is consistently putting out solid product, why would he want your measly $500 or $10k? If he can prove himself worthwhile, he will get the budgets he's looking for...and not from you.

You even mentioned it yourself in your post above this one - you want to piggyback other artists, but you want to simply learn the BUSINESS of filmmaking? As for your masters approach...I don't think it really applies in the film world, nor in any examples you're providing.

The original premise was cool - getting together and making a film, but now it just seems like you want to build up your resume with stuff you don't even make yourself.

 

[Chamber005]

Actually, production is just one of the three legs of business. The three legs of business is:

Sales/marketing
Production
Accounting/finances

lots of filmmakers solely focus on Production, sort of making a one leg stool. If you ever sat on a one leg stool, it is easy to tip over. A two leg stool is not much better either.

As a small business owner who does video productions it is not easy to manage all three aspects of a company. If one of the legs of the company is weak or non-existent the whole company suffers and if not corrected is doomed.

Film financing and management is itself an entire different skill set than filmmaking, as you have noticed. It is a specialty field where you would have to do a lot of research and study to figure out where to start, who to talk to, and where to go.

Film sales/distribution is also a specialty market that again is very different from filmmaking that again requires knowledge of where to go, who to talk to before you start.

Most Indie filmmakers and video production individuals tend to be all three (Sales/Producer/Accountant) to some degree, or enough to not create a disaster for themselves. It is unlikely that one person can master all three, to become that uber elusive mythical filmmaker.

What I hear you saying is that you want people to come together to fulfill the three areas of business....Sales people to sell the ideas, financiers to fund the ideas and production teams to produce the ideas to marketable products. THIS CAN HAPPEN IF YOU SEED IT WITH STARTUP MONEY!!! Most people who have experience in one of these three fields are happy to give advice and tips, but to actually do work for you they will want something for themselves out of it. You see there has to be a "what's in it for me" aspect with your idea or it all 'pie in the sky' waste of time sort stuff.

If you are looking for believers in your ideas, who will work for a future payoff (that is investment you know), then you are talking about faith and trust...and who are you again?

So your idea works ONLY IF YOU SEED IT WITH STARTUP FUNDING or if you can bring in someone who has has lots of credibility and industry experience who can encourage the industry to invest time and resources.

Years ago this lawyer guy showed up here in Portland trying to do exactly what you want to do. He put out lots of ads on Craigslist and other filmmaker sites about starting up a production company. He got everyone together and talked about his plan to make films for profits, though everyone would have to put the work up front for a deferred payout.

The more experienced filmmakers saw that the guy had no startup money and no social status,. Heck, even if he was the local TV weather guy he would have some social influence, but he was not even that! So, they bailed on the guy.

Those that stayed said that they had a few more meetings where the guy kept hinting that they all needed to chip in and fund the film he wanted to make, and with their funds and work they would get to learn filmmakeing and have a product to sell. Yeah.....Well, what do you get when you take amateur filmmakers who are financially broke, put them in a room and ask them to make a film?

The lawyer guy vanished and was never heard from again. From time to time, someone pops up and starts putting out calls for local filmmakers to gather together to pour our creative juices into a cup and create something....So, After a few beers on the poor sods dime, the filmmakers who came for the free food and drinks more or less told the person to call them once they get a budget. Those that stay are the newbies, the armatures and the hopeful actors looking for a break. When the guy who started the party realized that nobody has any startup cash to donate to their project and nobody who was famous showed up to want to work with them; they then vanished as quickly as they came.

Moral of the story is that there are a lot of STARRY EYED people out there who have dreams of becoming a successful film mogul. It't not that it cannot be done, it's that who wants to do this are often people who have nothing to start with. People with resources who want to make films often contact a filmmaker who has impressed them and present their desires with a budget.

Your desire to learn filmmaking is clear, as is your desire to learn the Business of films. Film school is a suggestion, though if that is not an option then find filmmakers who make films and work with them. I think Chicago has a few filmmakers who will be happy to have you on hand.

So, best of luck to you. I hope you find what you are looking for.

I completely agree! No way in heckabah do I have any desire to be the uber master of all things filmmaking and the business of filmmaking. But I do want to know a heck of a lot so that I know who to hire, why to hire them and if they're doing a good job, and until I have something saleable of my own I'm stuck with no way to learn, no way to experience, which is absurd.

I think the one thing that might be missing the mark with a lot of the people here is that I am NOT talking about investing to make money nor am I talking about investing in any project that I have any part in (the latter certainly being downright shady). If there is anything at all "what's in it for me" that's more tangible than an education, it would probably be an associate producer credit. There are several larger companies one can move into once they've helped associate produce a couple films (in any regard and whether or not the films themselves failed miserably).

But, honestly, this all really is just about going through the process. Putting ego aside to obtain real world experience with someone who is already doing it. Of course I had notions that we could "all come together" as a community, but never was that thought about making a profit. I don't need profit. No one should need profit if they're at the stage I am in this industry. If you're thinking about profiting that's just...backwards. I have profits from my day job, what I need is a vested interest in something that will enable me to grow in the business of filmmaking.

*I* think this invaluable for most people in my position, but I can see why a lot of them might not think so. Maybe it's because I'm Chicago and we're blue collar people who look at things like "being discovered" as being a stone's throw away from "miracles happen". For the next few years I want to do it and do it for FREE. If by some ridiculous chance I happened to be a part of a movie that made cash I'd hope that the director/producer would want to bring me on for their next project and maybe even throw me a bone. But I don't NEED their profits. Anyone taking part in anything like what I'm suggesting is doing so for all the intangibles (experience, networking, etc).

I am absolutely sure that most people here will see me as a cock-eyed optomist, saying things like, "I hope that they would throw me a bone", but I don't approach life that way. I approach everything in my life with optomism and with belief that things will go WELL and that the people I choose to associate myself with are GOOD people.

I'm a grown ass man. No one is pulling the wool over my eyes or taking advantage of my generous sensibilities. I cannot be taken advantage of because I'm getting exactly what I'm asking for out of life. See?

And everyone lived happily ever after, too.

 

[Chamber005]

I've followed the thread and I'll admit you can sell, just not to me and from the looks of it...not many others on the board. Good on you for trying however.

You type in massive blocks of text - number one warning sign of an aggressive sales person and that could be good, if this wasn't an internet forum. I'm picking out key parts of this and especially with your last post, it seems evident from my point of view that you just want to ride on someone's coattails for $500. What do you mean jump in on a project that's halfway through and put up 2k? "Buckets of marketing"? What in the hell is that? How many films have you marketed?

What EXACTLY is your end goal here? To "learn the business of filmmaking"? Seriously? It sounds more like you want to do some guerilla type promoting of the film in your town and triumph in the success of it, not because of your tiny marketing campaign...but moreso the abilities of the talented director/producer. If this director or producer is consistently putting out solid product, why would he want your measly $500 or $10k? If he can prove himself worthwhile, he will get the budgets he's looking for...and not from you.

You even mentioned it yourself in your post above this one - you want to piggyback other artists, but you want to simply learn the BUSINESS of filmmaking? As for your masters approach...I don't think it really applies in the film world, nor in any examples you're providing.

The original premise was cool - getting together and making a film, but now it just seems like you want to build up your resume with stuff you don't even make yourself.

And you're totally within your rights to interpret what I'm saying as something negative.

The only reason I even brought up the Associate Producer aspect was because everyone wanted to know "what's in it for me". So, comparing their "work experience" to something real world was a way to illustrate that.

And I'm sorry...measily 10K? LOL

Many of the more accomplished fillmakers here would gladly accept an additional 10K in funding for no (profit) strings attached and "buckets of marketing" because yes I should have said "buckets of marketing ENTHUSIASM", you're right.

And in what universe do you think piggybacking other artists isn't what every artist has done since art was invented? That's what artists do. You DP a movie. You DPed that movie because you wanted to work with that director. You've now worked with that director, learned what you needed to learn and have now had said experience and are now approaching the next director to DP for them. This is what it mean to collaberate in the arts. I'm not going to get into some philosphical discussion since it has nothing to do with the matter at hand, but this isn't some newfangled shady premise. This is the way collaberative art (and the further promotion and marketing of said art) exists.

I just mentioned budgets, but 10K on a 100K budget mean you're providing TEN PERCENT of the budget, just as 1K on a 10K budget is TEN PERCENT of the budget -- a budget that isn't an interest in the rights of the picture.

I don't know what math you're looking at. I'm not looking to work with Steven Spielberg, myself and potentially others like me are looking to work with someone who has a track record of completing projects (short films but hopefully also a feature). If you think that selling a film into distribution somehow is going to make any of the filmmakers here look at our enthusiasm (and/or "measily" funds) as unimportant, I think you're well off on what it means to sell a film. Most of the films sold by the people here haven't actually made much money (if any at all). Typically they're able to make their money back (almost) on a sale -- hence being able to use a few extra bucks and some motivated people on their side (like us!).

No more with the bizarre negativity people. It really has no place in what I've been talking about here. This should be an area of positive thoughts, good tidings and well wishes. Again, if what I'm proposing doesn't interest you, it means it doesn't interest or pertain to YOU. That's cool and awesome and best wishes on all that you decide to do on your own path.

And FYI I haven't been "selling" anything. Since when did asking if people wanted to DO something together become selling them? I haven't once said the people who do not want to do this should do this because... THAT would be me selling. This is just me saying "This would be awesome if we all did THIS", and then it slowly morphed into "This is what I'M doing, anyone want to join me?" That's it.

Believe me, if I was trying to sell you on something, you would have already bought it.

And geez, you make selling sound like a bad word. Salesmen are what make the world go 'round dontchyaknow?

 

[filmman]

Nathyn wrote a great book on Action Filmmaking. Action films are the hottest selling films worldwide. They have been for as long as I remember.
Here is the Amazon listing for the book. You can read it online for free. I'd recommend you buy it and read it from cover to cover. This will be the foundation of your knowledge for making an action movie and selling it.
http://www.amazon.com/Action-Filmma...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258416155&sr=1-1

Nate's project is ready to go. He even has the movie cast, with a couple of marketable name actors too. You owe it to yourself to send him an email or message him from here. Nate is a hard working filmmaker, honest, generous and extremely talented as a filmmaker and martial artist.

 

[lawriejaffa]

And you're totally within your rights to interpret what I'm saying as something negative.

For gods sake! Someone give this guy the money for a mono-rail.

No more with the bizarre negativity people.

Pleaaaase is that part and parcel of a deal that see's this insane roundabout discussion end.

Look your original post was about dvxuser making a production company. The answer to that seems to be a resounding no...

Now we're getting a merry-go-round of slickly suggesting that all of this is really just an endevour to get work experience. Well so what? I get 16 year olds emailing for the same thing, and when i can im happy to oblige them.

Can you not see? It's not that folk, or me am out to 'get you.' But that you are posting in a strangely aggressive, persuasive sales manner, regarding first the set up of a company, and then your own work experience. In between your making all kinds of claims for business acumen, fund raising abilities etc.

Truth is we know bug all about you. Mvetenan is obviously a small business owner, who operates in the real world. you being a chap saying that raising cash for your projects is the 'easiest' part just beggars belief.

I too run a business, and i can say that any small business men knows that the first rule of selling isnt to push, make absurd claims of success and grandiosity.

I'm pretty sure this thread is done...

 

[Chamber005]

For gods sake! Someone give this guy the money for a mono-rail.



Pleaaaase is that part and parcel of a deal that see's this insane roundabout discussion end.

Look your original post was about dvxuser making a production company. The answer to that seems to be a resounding no...

Now we're getting a merry-go-round of slickly suggesting that all of this is really just an endevour to get work experience. Well so what? I get 16 year olds emailing for the same thing, and when i can im happy to oblige them.

Can you not see? It's not that folk, or me am out to 'get you.' But that you are posting in a strangely aggressive, persuasive sales manner, regarding first the set up of a company, and then your own work experience. In between your making all kinds of claims for business acumen, fund raising abilities etc.

Truth is we know bug all about you. Mvetenan is obviously a small business owner, who operates in the real world. you being a chap saying that raising cash for your projects is the 'easiest' part just beggars belief.

I too run a business, and i can say that any small business men knows that the first rule of selling isnt to push, make absurd claims of success and grandiosity.

I'm pretty sure this thread is done...

And I thought you were done with this thread. It doesn't matter that the thread started with one intent, it has progressed into something else (but with a decisively similar intent to the original post).

I have been RESPONDING to all of the NEGATIVITY that has been thrown at me. For you and others who have come from a similarly negative place saying that my responding to your negative claims is me trying to sell someone is completely untrue. I have been having to defend MY position. I have no interest in "selling" anyone here or anyone anywhere else on my idea. I'm simply proposing the idea and RESPONDING to posters when applicable.

So maybe we'll try this -- people who do not have any QUESTIONS about my ideas or do not seek to JOIN me or ENCOURAGE me in what I'm going to do need not POST anything.

:hew::

There, that should settle any confusion.

Thanks!

 

[Chamber005]

Nathyn wrote a great book on Action Filmmaking. Action films are the hottest selling films worldwide. They have been for as long as I remember.
Here is the Amazon listing for the book. You can read it online for free. I'd recommend you buy it and read it from cover to cover. This will be the foundation of your knowledge for making an action movie and selling it.
http://www.amazon.com/Action-Filmma...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258416155&sr=1-1

Nate's project is ready to go. He even has the movie cast, with a couple of marketable name actors too. You owe it to yourself to send him an email or message him from here. Nate is a hard working filmmaker, honest, generous and extremely talented as a filmmaker and martial artist.

No, I'm definately going to keep him in mind. I've talked with him on threads here before and he seems cool and I know he's had gathered some solid experience.

Who knows, maybe this thread will turn into "DVXuser let's all put our funds together and get behind Nate's new movie", right? I can't predict that, but I see no reason why he wouldn't be a canidate for what I've been mentioning here or even just a candidate of my own services.

And to the book -- I'm not really a book guy. I might use them for some specifics if I need something, but typically I find that books only teach you how to do something the way someone else has done it, which is great for technical stuff but has only ever hampered me in my personal and professional trajectory. But yeah, for technical reasons it might be worth buying. Thanks!

 

[lawriejaffa]

It doesn't matter that the thread started with one intent, it has progressed into something else

Yah, its called offtopic. There is a chameleon element to all of this - with its continued twisting and turning, and entailment of funding and zero qualification that makes me very wary of this thread.

You haven't said anything about who you are, while suggesting and citing your desire to pursue this enterprise, and encourage funding to do so. It just doesn't smell right to me.

I accept i've been very critical of your as i see it = unbusiness like approach to the concieved notion for your idea. However, unless this thread is simply the um...

chamber005salesthread, then it is redundent now its original purpose has ended.. If your 'new' idea is about drawing funds together for somebodies elses film, or to discuss that then it should have its own thread, and should be done in liason with a filmmaker, and fulfilling all the laws governing such appeals to.... funding.

But this hyper approach, and lack of clarity i just find disconcerting.

If its just me then cool. On a personal note i think your a hyperactive enthusiast with little regard to the formalities in which one really raises these kinds of topics, and how to present them as credible plans but I don't think your a crook, but your kind of appearing somewhat dodgy with what i think are unclear motives.

The hollistic life experience in film business can be achieved without a thread... by just emailing any producer to volanteer help.

 

[Chamber005]

Yah, its called offtopic. There is a chameleon element to all of this - with its continued twisting and turning, and entailment of funding and zero qualification that makes me very wary of this thread.

You haven't said anything about who you are, while suggesting and citing your desire to pursue this enterprise, and encourage funding to do so. It just doesn't smell right to me.

I accept i've been very critical of your as i see it = unbusiness like approach to the concieved notion for your idea. However, unless this thread is simply the um...

chamber005salesthread, then it is redundent now its original purpose has ended.. If your 'new' idea is about drawing funds together for somebodies elses film, or to discuss that then it should have its own thread, and should be done in liason with a filmmaker, and fulfilling all the laws governing such appeals to.... funding.

But this hyper approach, and lack of clarity i just find disconcerting.

If its just me then cool. On a personal note i think your a hyperactive enthusiast with little regard to the formalities in which one really raises these kinds of topics, and how to present them as credible plans but I don't think your a crook, but your kind of appearing somewhat dodgy with what i think are unclear motives.

The hollistic life experience in film business can be achieved without a thread... by just emailing any producer to volanteer help.

Alright, that's it, you have officially been banned from my club of awesome people doing awesome things and being altogether awesome. Multiple negative comments and mispellings equal = EJECTION FOR YOU MY FRIEND!



But, to your point, why do you CARE if what I'm talking about doesn't apply to you? I cannot for the life of me figure this out from you. You've been on me since this thread started. I mean, do you search people out whose ideas you don't like and just spam them with negative comments until they, what -- stop having an opinion that differs from your own?

Dude, it is 100% cool that you want nothing to do with me or what I'm trying to do. I started this thread in the pursuit of a fellowship -- as a means to find other like-minded folk. If you are not one of them why do you insist on berating me and any perspective that's different from your own? Please, man, explain your passionate distaste for me and my position because something just really MATTERS to you in all this, seriously.

I'm going to go inject my enthusiasm into a project that wants my inspiration and "measily" cash, and I'm wanting AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE to be with me. See, THAT matters to ME. It matters to me to find like-minded people in this business. That's why I DEFEND my position. But you ATTACKING my position makes no sense. Do you think I'm taking friends from you? Have you somehow deemed every other person who comes to these boards your intellectual inferior thus not having the mental capacity to see through some sort of grand, shady scheme?

There's no shadiness happening here. You're seeing crooked evil dealings where there are none. I am WELL within topic of my original post and will continue to maintain this thread so long as there are any people who might FEEL AS I DO regarding the position and points herein.

Just chill out, seriously. This isn't about YOU, this is about people who might be like ME, that's it. lol

We're cool.

"But I'm sorry to tell you that you have been eliminated from the race."

 

[lawriejaffa]

Yep a lot of jargon and no real answers. This is a discussion forum, ideas especially controversial ones relating to $$$ are discussed, and criticised. You've swung all over the place in this thread about what it is you are proposing. My concerns are posted.

BS aside we can agree to disagree.

 

[Chamber005]

Yep a lot of jargon and no real answers. This is a discussion forum, ideas especially controversial ones relating to $$$ are discussed, and criticised. You've swung all over the place in this thread about what it is you are proposing. My concerns are posted.

BS aside we can agree to disagree.

But seriously? 500 bucks is grounds for "controversy"? To me if you're not playing with money on the table in business you're not going to be playing your best game. Stakes are important -- and for the extra-low budgie guys here, 500 bucks can be important too, especially if we showed up in numbers greater than one.

And while I'll admit that the thread has had to evolve from a "community of many" to a "fellowship of few", I'm pretty confident that my PERSONAL motivation in all of this has been pretty consistent and well told. From the start I've been in this to learn -- to have something to market, promote, etc. Good times, that's it.

But MAN it took you a long time to agree to disagree, but I'm glad you finally got there. Awesome possum.

 

[mvetanen]

Nathyn wrote a great book on Action Filmmaking. Action films are the hottest selling films worldwide. They have been for as long as I remember.

Thanks! for $15 buy this book.

 

[mvetanen]

I too run a business, and i can say that any small business men knows that the first rule of selling isnt to push, make absurd claims of success and grandiosity.

I'm pretty sure this thread is done...

I have to agree with lawriejaffa. Anyone who makes grandiose claims about their services, product or program sets off the alarm bells in my head, or as Clark Howard would say "SCAM ALERT".

I have ran across a few filmmakers that try and sell "THE DREAM" only to find out that they where running a scam the whole time.

A few years ago we had a guy, Craig R. Marquard, who showed up in Portland peddling a huge scam to bring Major league baseball to Portland. He got everyone excited but when the Major leagues said they never heard of the guy the scam was reviled for what was. the guy vanished for a while then resurfaced as a film mogul asking the local community to help fund and create his projects.

having been around the film community here long enough we see these guys come and go. Most of the time they get a few free beers and perhaps a dinner or two out of us, but as soon as they make the rounds and are done with us, they are off to the next city, the next scam or the next wife.

I know I am done with this thread. I will just start to repeat myself if i was to say another word.

Cheers!

 

[Chamber005]

I have to agree with lawriejaffa. Anyone who makes grandiose claims about their services, product or program sets off the alarm bells in my head, or as Clark Howard would say "SCAM ALERT".

I have ran across a few filmmakers that try and sell "THE DREAM" only to find out that they where running a scam the whole time.

A few years ago we had a guy, Craig R. Marquard, who showed up in Portland peddling a huge scam to bring Major league baseball to Portland. He got everyone excited but when the Major leagues said they never heard of the guy the scam was reviled for what was. the guy vanished for a while then resurfaced as a film mogul asking the local community to help fund and create his projects.

having been around the film community here long enough we see these guys come and go. Most of the time they get a few free beers and perhaps a dinner or two out of us, but as soon as they make the rounds and are done with us, they are off to the next city, the next scam or the next wife.

I know I am done with this thread. I will just start to repeat myself if i was to say another word.

Cheers!

But don't you think it's a little bogus to even bring up the word "scam" in a thread that's talking about friendship and fellowship? A word like "scam" is like yelling racism where there is none. If there was something at all remotely "scam" like about anything I've said in this thread, wouldn't any of you have pointed to it and said "There's the scam, right there, see." You cannot all possibly, collectively be that thick.

My idea was to list, say five directors here on DVX (or five projects/films). Everyone else involved also would choose their own five. The word scam is a dirty word and you know it and by even breathing it here is pretty gross considering you know absolutely there is no way POSSIBLE that the above mentioned scenario could possibly in any way shape or form POSSIBLY create the presence of a scam. Seriously.

Coming to a thread that's talking about unity and coming together for a common endevour and arbitrarily throwing around words like "scam" and "snake oil salesman" is so far beneath the integrity of these boards. This should be a place where we are free to find like-minded people in pursuit of common ideas, a place to learn and educate others, not a place to berate or accuse -- what's the point in it? What was the point of any of you people who have come into this thread with your negativity hacking at the knees of something POSITIVE that I was trying to do for myself and others? You've painted all these vague pictures of deceit and suspicion when I've brought nothing of the sort to anything that I've said. I've talked about good and positive things, things that might help people who are LIKE ME (remember, NOT like you and the way you have decided to do things) whereas all of these negative comments have served to what -- see yourself typing something? Your insights regarding the proposition were not requested, only your answer to the very basic Yes or No question of, "Would you like to do something like this with me?"

Y'all should be pretty well ashamed of yourselves, any of you who have decided it was your place to scrutinize and attack me and my ideas. I started this in the name of community and you turned it into something base and pathetic. There was no cause for it and it served no one but yourself. Pretty lame.

But anyway, to everyone else, I'm about DOING, not worrying about and talking about and pondering on what everyone else is doing. I'll defend my own position, but I shouldn't have any need to. If you get where I'm at, you're down and we go. If you're not where I'm at, we're all good and have fun playing it whatever way you're playing it -- all the best success to you!

Regardless, I'm not going to walk away from my own thread and position because of the multitude of lameness that's occurred here. I'm still totally and completely present for anyone else who may want to come ride the wave of awesomeness with me.

Whoyawith!

:nads:

 

[filmman]

http://www.indiegogo.com/Fellini-Directs-Again?account_id=8938&iggref=imgl

Perhaps you'd take a look and critique why my movie FELLINI DIRECTS AGAIN! isn't attracting donations

 

[Chamber005]

http://www.indiegogo.com/Fellini-Directs-Again?account_id=8938&iggref=imgl

Perhaps you'd take a look and critique why my movie FELLINI DIRECTS AGAIN! isn't attracting donations

Well, my first guess would be that you maybe aren't actually asking for donations or aren't asking aggressively enough? If having donations meant the difference between something I'm doing being filmed or not, you better believe I'd be tin cup in hand, shaking it up and down the street (only not literally).

If you are asking for donations and asking aggressively enough I would then ask from whom and where are you asking for your donations? Your project is definately off-beat (not rythmically, but as in "off the beaten path"), so you need to find anyone and everyone online or off who has any mention of Fellini in their blog or website. Ask your local video store if people ever rent Fellini films there, go to art supply stores, improv shops, etc with open hands and donation postcards.

Your monetary goal is downright tiny. You could probably get there pretty quickly on just 25 dollar donations from individuals. Or maybe you'll find that person who yearns to see something like this be made and they'll toss you the whole 5K upfront (or better still you may be able to SELL someone into BELIEVING that they yearn to see this made, which is much more gratifying IMO)

There are plenty of people like me who will give money away for nothing, but you have to have something that urges them to be charitable. And, most importantly, you'll never get anyone to give you money for nothing unless you ask. I know a lot of people are scared to ask strangers for money, but there's nothing personal, nothing emotional in regards to money. Money only matters to money matters, period. You're not asking for a part of someone's soul, their love or friendship, it's just money. Don't be afraid to ask everyone and anyone for it (so long as they are not friends or family as no amount of money is worth risking any of those relationships) -- they're going to spend it on something that will probably be a much worse investment than what anyone anywhere else is offering, right? I mean, that pack of Twizzlers they're buying 500% marked up from the price of creative costs is just going to give them bad teeth and diabetes. If they give that money to you, you're saving them from a life of bad teeth and diabetes, man!



No, but seriously, I think the problem you may be having is the same problem most people who aren't finding success have -- you're primary focus is on succeeding (whether it's personally or artistically).

In my life I TAKE FIERCELY and then I GIVE GENEROUSLY. To me, being successful means a daily focus on personal success; generosity, understanding and kindness towards others, friendship, love and art. If I were to take out one of these components everything else falls apart.

Think about this thread and how it began. Most people were encouraged by the idea, their inner voice said that they'd love to be a part of something like that, but then what they've been taught or what others have told them to think and believe overcame what they felt -- that genuine aspect of the self that tells us to lift others up and to care for our peers -- and pessimism took over. Christ, some of the pessimism turned into downright loathing for ME, someone who was talking about giving of himself FREELY to the benefit of a complete STRANGER.

The reason people behave this way isn't because they've been "burned" in the past or know someone who has been "burned" (no one like this would ever put themselves out there enough to have ever been "burned" in the first place, lol). They behave this way because someone told them that they should live life the way THEY live their own life, and chances are the person giving the advice wasn't a happy or at all fulfilled person. Most people want you to live the life they lead, do the job they do, drive the car or smoke the brand they do because it validates them -- it validates everything that is horrible and depressing in their existence. Heck, even the fact that people on this thread have questioned my own personal success shows that they know nothing about success in any regard.

Have I been at all flappable? Have I not been confident? Would you say, generally, that I was probably a pretty happy and positive dude throughout all of this? Then I'd ask you how do YOU define success? I am successful, but a bunch of money is such a small aspect of my success, and anyone who is spending their days and nights pining for and worried about their personal (monetary or otherwise) success maybe needs to take a step back and really look at what they're giving up to the universe. That's what I did. I made money, bought people cars and clothes and thought I was giving as hard as I was taking -- but I was doing the wrong kind of giving. The giving I was doing did nothing to enrich my soul or anyone else's, it was just STUFF and the brief, fading thank yous that followed. I walked away for a year, just sat around pondering on it all, and I was able to come back stronger and haven't looked back since.

You're asking me why aren't people giving money to your project. And unfortunately I'd have to answer your question with a question ("just like a salesman"). My question is to ask yourself: If you worked for and gave towards making someone else's dream come true, then did it again, and once more, how long do you think it would take for your own dreams to come true?

Of course altruism doesn't breed success, but FIERCELY TAKING and GENEROUSLY GIVING absolutely does. Every single successful person you will ever encounter, including myself, will tell you the exact same thing.

I can give you marketing strategies and ideas, but unless you yourself are dividing yourself between FIERCELY taking and GENEROUSLY giving and paying attention to your love, friendships and art inbetween, I'm next to certain nothing is ever really going to progress.

But, honestly, I didn't come here to see if I could change people to be like me. I started this thread to see if there are any people who are already out there hoping, like me, that there are more of us around. I am successful. None of you need to see my bank statements to prove that. You know I'm successful because there is not one single thing that *I* need from anyone here beyond friendship. I have made all of my dreams come true thus far and will make all of what remains come to pass as well. See that? Isn't that a downright awesome existence? When was the last time anyone ever told you that there is absolutely nothing they need from anyone else except for maybe friendship? It's true and it's awesome and that's my life EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm so awesome I literally don't need a single person to validate my awesomeness. There's no "delusional positivity". People can't believe that I've never once had an argument with any of my friends or my woman. But I haven't. Why would I allow anyone into my life who wasn't just as awesome as me? Everyone I associate myself with is either equally fulfilled personally or has gravitated to me to share in the awesomeness. My ONLY point to all of this is to see if there are other people like me or who feel they might have similar sensibilities on these boards, that's it.

But yeah, filmman, I'd say you're not hitting it hard enough. Find out the legalities of it and see if you can literally pick up the phone and cold call for donations. Heck, LOL, if I was trying to really push for doners on a project I would totally start a company called W.A.T.T. or something because here in Chicago we have WTTW Chicago which is like public broadcasting? They're always doing arts-related fundraising. You then start calling people in rich neighborhoods, like, "This is George from the film department of W.A.T.T.W. in Chicago...." lol See there? They hear the W and they're brain finishes the rest.

You'd have to look into soliciting donations, though. And you'd have to make sure you get a scubbed list of numbers (they cost next to nothing), and you'd have to have a decent website set up so that you can take people there while you have them on the phone if necessary. Also, since you're actually selling something, DVDs or whatever, (like the public TV people do here), you might be in the same category as a guy selling carpet cleaner, ya know? I can't imagine there's much else needed besides a business license to make that happen.

And for all that is holy and good get rid of that big fat ZERO on your donation chart! The most basic, basic aspect of sales is about respecting the pack mentality. People have now and will always want to belong to the pack -- either by leading it or taking protection from being surrounded by it. Your big fat ZERO says plainly that NO ONE wants to lead the charge on this and NO ONE will be there when the next doner arrives, scared and alone.

You don't want to think of people as sheep -- more like wild buffalo. Untameable but with a few core principles that you can and MUST tap into to succeed in any business. I approach every such new "wild buffalo" with a kind voice, caring smile and gentle hand (which I've garnered from my personal life which exists purely in kindness and caring), and as soon as I'm close enough, as soon as they engage...well, I'll spare you the gorey details as most people just want to eat the cheeseburger, they don't want to hear about how the cow was slaughtered.

Anyway, good luck!

And remember, TAKE FIERCELY/GIVE GENEROUSLY. It cures what ails ya!

 

[filmman]

let me think about it LOL
ok, back to your proposal...
i think you mentioned something about learning the business of filmmaking
distribution is part of that as you indicated in your earlier comments
i have a movie THE RED QUEEN having its world premiere Nov. 20th
at the Ava Gardner Indie Film Festival, Smithfield, North Carolina.
i can't make it because, well, i just got bogged down in pre-production
on my new movie FELLINI DIRECTS AGAIN!
i'm going to go ahead and make the movie regardless of indiegogo
that didn't pan out ... because i didn't pan out far enough LOL
so if you find yourself in North Carolina, stop by and see my movie
maybe you can talk to a newspaper reporter about it and do some PR
for a fellow dvx user? wishing you the best of success, chamber.
i still recommend you get involved in any way you can with Nate
that imho is your best ticket from all i have read on this thread.

 

[Chamber005]

Yeah, definately not going to be in NC, lol.

And like I said, Nathyn is on my list. I still feel I'd prefer someone who is not local as I would have to set up lots of "ground rules" with a local person that I wouldn't have to deal with if the person were in a different state. E.g. Nathyn might be someone I'd like to work with and help out in the actual production, and any melding of that and my business practices could confuse things for me. Again, I separate myself more distinctly than most people. I have business associates, artistic associates, personal associates, etc. I don't really like to blend these areas if I can possibly avoid to.

For instance, *I* would never hire anyone or accept investments on a creative project from anyone who was at all interested in doing something creatively with me. Any private equity person buying shares in a film (or its LLC) should be there primarily for investment purposes. The last thing you'd ever want is a literary agent who's just a writer who couldn't make it as a novelist representing you. Same goes for everything else in business. So if I work with Nathyn in a business capacity it pretty much rules out me working with him in a creative capacity, which might be detrimental to my own personal growth as an artist.

I'm very black and white on stuff like this as I've seen numerous times what happens when you blend ideals or relationships with business. Almost always a bad, and at best you end up with an inferior product because people were too busy trying to fulfill their own personal (or artistic) interests instead of just specializing in what it is they do best.

 

[filmman]

well, the reason I didn't take up this point, chamber, is because you're describing an ideal situation: a producer isn't supposed to deal with creative matters.

So rest assured Nate wouldn't want you on the set. He just wants you to give him the money and sign a contract that he will pay you back from first moneys as soon as he has the movie in distribution.

Ideally speaking you should meet to discuss the contract and then to sign it. But to clarify something that has been messed up in this thread: if you want to learn the marketing of a movie through this experience while benefiting a chosen director, you have to understand then that you should not own the movie at all. It will be Nate who owns the movie; he will be the sole producer and director.

You will promote and market the movie; however, it will be Nate who decides on how to distribute the movie or who to sell it to for distribution purposes. The only issue in your contract will be that the first moneys will go to pay you back the investment plus, say, 30% over that. And then your involvement with the movie will be over.

So from the first moneys, you will get back $5,000 plus an additional $1,500. This by the way is Nate's budget.

If you're really serious about this plan, I'd suggest you invest this money in Nate's movie and write the contract. Nate will be thrilled if you would then go out and promote the movie all over the world. That will help him find a distributor much faster.

And you will have learned how a movie is distributed -- which is your purpose in helping somebody who has done it (completed and sold a movie for profit).

Just an idea....