Should DVXUSER start a production company?

[Barry_Green]

The part that's giving you the trouble is that you want to make a public offering. If you wanted to do it privately, there may be ways. You'd have to talk to someone who understands your state's securities laws. Certain offerers are sometimes exempt from having to register.

 

[Chamber005]

Snake oil salesmen made laws like that happen. They were called "blue sky" laws because, without the documentation and effort, that's pretty much what investors were being sold -- nothing more than a patch of blue sky. This long, long, long predates studios.

Well it can't pre date studios as it pertains to films. Films existed in movie houses because of production companies. The law as it exists today, pertaining specifically to films, existed after studios, and studios certainly could have had a hand in it.

If I want you to invest in a piece of beach front property and that piece of property fails to be worth what I sold it to you for, there's no law against that. You bought it, it's yours. If you paid too much, too dang bad. There's some moral issues, sure, but there's nothing illegal about me selling you an Xmen #1 on the basis that "someday" it will be worth so much more than it's 10k price tag.

This law and as it pertains to filmmaking seems aimed at keeping individuals from gathering funds to create large, independent features. Just feels that way in my gut.

But moving on, it looks like the only way to have my original idea take root is to find a director I like here and then start some kind of a "production group" in his/her favor and start asking others to join. Once enough people have joined maybe the group as a whole can start searching for a screenplay for said director to film.

Seems to me that if we can get, say, 10 or 15 people here on DVX to save a thousand bucks and the director in question has his own company's funds in order, we can at least put fourth a modest amount helping to fund a micro budget feature.

But, again, most people don't think big picture and most people have trouble putting ego aside. IMO it makes much more sense to invest in and work with your betters when you're starting out in a business.

In the end, DVXuser could make this happen themselves and it could be something really awesome with a great marketing story behind it, but as someone else here said, DVXuser isn't necessarily going to step in and play with the rest of the kids -- they're just the playgrounds.

 

[Chamber005]

The part that's giving you the trouble is that you want to make a public offering. If you wanted to do it privately, there may be ways. You'd have to talk to someone who understands your state's securities laws. Certain offerers are sometimes exempt from having to register.

Yeah, but if I'm me and you're the filmmaker's company I'm soliciting for, would you really want to risk any possible legal trouble? I mean, I'm in Chicago, I'm an individual. Maybe I could slip under the radar and make some things happen; but what about the company in a different state (say, California)? What if you have a pissed off investor who can somehow sue me or this guy's company because something went wrong in the paper work?

Again, I think the only clear cut way around it is to make every person who "invests" a producer on the film, and I just fear that with that credential would come too much entitlement and could jack things up for the person I'm trying to help in the first place.

Personally I'm way harsh on laws like this -- laws like making, say, pot illegal. I feel like if someone is duped by the "snake oil salesman" it's their own fault and good for the salesman. Laws that protect us from ourselves are, in my opinion, completely ridiculous. People should have the right to make their own decisions, educate themselves, etc. Maybe it's because I make a living in sales and marketing, but nothing irks me more than when some new bill passes telling me that I'm only allowed to charge a person X amount of dollars or that I can't market to a specific geographic area. Just totally against what I personally believe in.

Except for laws that protect the mentally handicapped or mentally deficient. Those laws I support.

But anyway, I'm determined to make something of all this...

 

[lawriejaffa]

It actually never fails to astonish me how often this idea is floated around - if only we all worked together type mantra?

Why is that supposedly so great anyway? The process by which we grow as individuals - and our own personal alliances, cooperations etc, really does sort the men from the boys anyway.

A grand and populist enterprise like this sounds charming but anyone in the business field or creative industries - working, would find it hard to fathom as to what personal advantage such a project like this could have.

Directors are by nature egomaniacs (most) there working there arses off to ensure there artistic visions are realised - most are too neurotic to even use the swathe of talented scriptwriters (insisting on writing their own epics! Eek!)

So really to suggest that we basically 'know' who the top dudes are - and that we should thorw buckaroos at them, is just about the most naive - but charming and well intentioned idea, ive heard on the forums.

 

[mvetanen]

I like DVXUser because it is a great resource for gear, production tips, and looking at what people are doing. I like the contest as it gives everyone a chance to meet other DVX users if they want. I have been to a few DVXuser meetings where I have learned a lot and got to play with some nice cameras.

However, forming any sort of production company is sort of like trying to form a Business out of a Business association network. Sort of not the reason why we associate with each other.

I don't mind building affiliations with companies; an marketing company and a video production company are good fits, same with a car dealership and a video company. Associations with other production houses, post-houses and writers is also a good thing too. I get lots of referrals and lots of work just from the associations an affiliations I make.

I would not be interested in forming any company but I would be interested in affiliation and association with individuals and companies who would like to work together to create productions.

 

[CB_Radio]

In all my years in sales and marketing I have never, ever, never heard of something so bizarre as is not being able to "generally solicit". That...just takes the cake.

And you know who made a law like that happen? Production studios. Bet the pot on that one.

Well it can't pre date studios as it pertains to films.

It pertains to securities. It pertains to anybody who wants you to invest money for a piece of their grand scam, oh, I mean, their great idea! These are not not filmmaking specific laws. It just happens that a huge number of filmmakers want to find investors to buy percentages of their films as a way to find their films. It also just happens that filmmaking is almost always a loss and it just happens that filmmakers love to guarantee their investors that they'll make millions. Young filmmakers just happen to abuse or break these laws with abandon.

The question of film investment legality comes up all the time on forums like this. Where did you happen to find those quotes. Not only are they accurate but they would make a good link to educate all the filmmakers who come up with the brilliant idea to sell shares in their first feature which they are sure will make millions, even though they've never made a feature before.

 

[Chamber005]

It actually never fails to astonish me how often this idea is floated around - if only we all worked together type mantra?

Why is that supposedly so great anyway? The process by which we grow as individuals - and our own personal alliances, cooperations etc, really does sort the men from the boys anyway.

A grand and populist enterprise like this sounds charming but anyone in the business field or creative industries - working, would find it hard to fathom as to what personal advantage such a project like this could have.

Directors are by nature egomaniacs (most) there working there arses off to ensure there artistic visions are realised - most are too neurotic to even use the swathe of talented scriptwriters (insisting on writing their own epics! Eek!)

So really to suggest that we basically 'know' who the top dudes are - and that we should thorw buckaroos at them, is just about the most naive - but charming and well intentioned idea, ive heard on the forums.

D'oh! I hate it when I'm being naive...

My personal business experience is that the greater numbers you have on your side the greater chance you have of success. I've been able to secure myself a sweet gig and lifestyle because 4 years ago me and seven buddies of mine walked out of our old job together and never looked back. Most of those buddies haven't been as successful at this lifestyle as I have, but it was that initial break from the establishment that gave me the ability to rise above the rat race.

I feel like a movement of independent filmmakers coming together to form an entity whose financial prowess might not be limitless but whose ranks have such a depth of talent is a completely rationale idea.

Strictly from a business standpoint ego should be replace by self confidence. In business ego leaves you penniless and alone, while comprimise of station and a community of talent gives you the best chance at success.

In all of my mentioning here about producing and investing the one thing I've not mentioned is my own desire to tell stories through filmmaking and other forms of media -- because that's a completely separate issue. If the people here formed an alliance it would be to progress the PROMOTIONAL and MARKETING aspect of their filmmaking life and would have nothing whatsoever to do with their creative ambitions. And the fact that certain people would ignore the ULTIMATE importance of their own marketing and promotion and networking interactions regarding their now and future projects shines a glaring spotlight on what truly cripples most creative people.

I have the rare experience of taking on a job based in marketing and promotion because I wanted to serve a writerly lifestyle. In doing so I've realized over the years how clueless and devoid of any business sensibilities I was when I was just a writer and not a writer and business man.

But hey, this is where it starts. I personally pledge 500 dollars to the cause. Whoever wants to jump in and join me can do so. For those who need time to save the money we can set a date for when it's due (mid summer, whatever). We all participate in finding a director here who is not a member of our "production alliance" as well as a screenwriter and we invest (or, become producers) on that film.

To me, that 500 bucks buys so much more than can be quantified. And for anyone who thinks they cannot find their "better" on these boards, you obviously have nothing to learn and shouldn't be involved. But anyone who is like me and who wants to be a part of forming something and creating a film that might actually go into distribution and recognizes that there are some PROFOUND talents right here on these boards that we all could piggy back and learn from and grow a far reaching film network with, let's get those hands up and commit to growing the BUSINESS aspect of our own future business.

I understand that I'm the novice here, still years off from doing a feature, but 80% of what will see you succeed in any business is your ability to network, market and self-promote. This, to me, is the first real step in creating an unflappable business strategy.

As to how and where our money exists and is secured by, that will have to be something the group agrees on and is suggested by someone who knows more about securing and insuring funds than I do (more than likely the chosen filmmaker's executive producer).

Anyway, $500.00 right here. It's going to a filmmaker here whether I'm on my own or if I have help.

 

[Chamber005]

I like DVXUser because it is a great resource for gear, production tips, and looking at what people are doing. I like the contest as it gives everyone a chance to meet other DVX users if they want. I have been to a few DVXuser meetings where I have learned a lot and got to play with some nice cameras.

However, forming any sort of production company is sort of like trying to form a Business out of a Business association network. Sort of not the reason why we associate with each other.

I don't mind building affiliations with companies; an marketing company and a video production company are good fits, same with a car dealership and a video company. Associations with other production houses, post-houses and writers is also a good thing too. I get lots of referrals and lots of work just from the associations an affiliations I make.

I would not be interested in forming any company but I would be interested in affiliation and association with individuals and companies who would like to work together to create productions.

And honestly *I'm* not interested in forming a company either. That's why I'm talking about a group of people coming together to do something (e.g. help produce a film). Chances are anyone who helps produce/invests most certainly will NOT get their money back. I think that's pretty obvious, that's why I'm talking about us coming together with hundreds of dollars each (not thousands). Besides the experience people would get promoting and marketing a film by a director with a proven track record as well as potentially being able to learn from and gain a larger network, the people involved would then have a producer credit which is HUGE and opens so many doors into larger, statewide alliances.

Our story alone would be enough of a tagline to get people to notice (a forum community of filmmakers coming together to fund one of their own). The marketing and promotion is there, it's just a matter of people stepping up and wanting to really take a leap regarding the business aspect of their filmmaking future.

 

[lawriejaffa]

D'oh! I hate it when I'm being naive...

With all respect, i just think the idea is - it doesn't seem to incorporate any realistic appreciation for either logistics or the motivations of those involved in such an enterprise. Most probably reading your suggestion will think 'suuure in a perfect world' etc.

Much of your post kind of sounds like a self help book - especially the 'me and my old buds who used to work quit and lived the dream' part. This is not about enthusiasm, optimism, self belief - or calling ego self confidence, or difficulty a 'challenge' hehehe.

The reason most filmmakers are independent is because they enjoy there independence, there not all yearning to be in studios for sake of the very compromises such things would bring. Sure, i know anyone here might say (there aiming for studio work) and good for them if they are, but if they ain't moved to where the work 'really' is, and are working on there productions with autuer like perspectives, then its really because they enjoy that actual independence.

Alliances struck between film directors (most often as producers too) are entirely mutual, and even between two have enough strifes after time to write an epic!

For you to suggest that there could be a trans-national network of filmmakers covering different areas (effectively as promoters) from Mississipi to Milton Keynes, effectively dismisses the real interest they have in this experience.

So i don't doubt your enthusiasm, but i think your drinking the ol' self made cool aid somewhat. You admit to having little experience, and it shows if you make a populist style suggestion that effectively advocates enormous compromise for the realisation of a vision belonging to a limited few.

That you cite that would bring great experience (if we could kowtow to the 'select' who would direct, write etc.) Again is against the very point of why you still have guys making a feature on 2 bucks and a camcorder belonging to there aunt.

Its to experience it themselves, to learn themselves, and ultimately to realise their own potential.

Incidentally a lot of amazing things would and could be achieved if individual motives were removed for sake of a self declared so called 'greater good' theres a reason it hasn't happened...

I'd suggest reviewing your suggestions and being a lot more serious in its planning and proposition - for serving the mutual interests of would be participants in it. Rather than blowing the trumpet of joy declaring what a wonderful and amazing thing it could be so... prematurely as it were!

Good luck with it!

 

[SparkyZa]

I'd be glad to direct, just send me my first bag of money and we'll get this party started!

 

[mvetanen]

And honestly *I'm* not interested in forming a company either. That's why I'm talking about a group of people coming together to do something (e.g. help produce a film). Chances are anyone who helps produce/invests most certainly will NOT get their money back. I think that's pretty obvious, that's why I'm talking about us coming together with hundreds of dollars each (not thousands). Besides the experience people would get promoting and marketing a film by a director with a proven track record as well as potentially being able to learn from and gain a larger network, the people involved would then have a producer credit which is HUGE and opens so many doors into larger, statewide alliances.

Our story alone would be enough of a tagline to get people to notice (a forum community of filmmakers coming together to fund one of their own). The marketing and promotion is there, it's just a matter of people stepping up and wanting to really take a leap regarding the business aspect of their filmmaking future.

If you are asking for the filmmakers here to give you a GIFT of money, then perhaps you should market your film through such sites as IndieGoGo http://www.indiegogo.com If your film is attractive and interesting to the members here, they can make a donation that is 100% legal and tax deductible.

Otherwise, if you are asking for Investment money from the public members here who you don't have any pre-existing business relationship with, then you are already running foul of the SEC laws. I am not a lawyer, so you probably want to check with a real lawyer about asking for investment money, but I know that only Qualified Investors can invest, and that Qualified Investor is often NOT the general public at large.

Here are a few things I know about that you might look in to:

Forming a Club with Dues is legal. Many filmmaker organizations do this and dues paying members have access to the club resources. These are known as Not for Profit organizations, like the Boy Scouts or even the ASC, or any other professional organization, where the dues and the profits from the work are reinvested back in to the organization and mission of the organization. Political parties and national organizations like the NRA operate in this way too. I know a few filmmaker groups who operate like this and they make very particular films (like for the HP Lovecraft film festival every year), or religious films.

Sell a film school where the school is to create a film from start to finish. Get any Filmmakers magazine and you see loads of these ads in them.

Sell a book or DVD that teaches people how to make films or how to use cameras as a means to finance yourself. I know a few filmmakers who do this, even Barry Green does this.


I know I would have no interest to join a filmmakers club unless they have some resources that I would like to have access too. I also would not join any film production club unless it was local either. I suspect most members of DVXUSER feel the same way too.

I hope that this ends this thread. I hope that you stop asking for public investments, its a quick way to find trouble for yourself. If you decide to open a film school, write a book or make a DVD, start a film club then please take it to its appropriate forums.

 

[Chamber005]

With all respect, i just think the idea is - it doesn't seem to incorporate any realistic appreciation for either logistics or the motivations of those involved in such an enterprise. Most probably reading your suggestion will think 'suuure in a perfect world' etc.

Much of your post kind of sounds like a self help book - especially the 'me and my old buds who used to work quit and lived the dream' part. This is not about enthusiasm, optimism, self belief - or calling ego self confidence, or difficulty a 'challenge' hehehe.

The reason most filmmakers are independent is because they enjoy there independence, there not all yearning to be in studios for sake of the very compromises such things would bring. Sure, i know anyone here might say (there aiming for studio work) and good for them if they are, but if they ain't moved to where the work 'really' is, and are working on there productions with autuer like perspectives, then its really because they enjoy that actual independence.

Alliances struck between film directors (most often as producers too) are entirely mutual, and even between two have enough strifes after time to write an epic!

For you to suggest that there could be a trans-national network of filmmakers covering different areas (effectively as promoters) from Mississipi to Milton Keynes, effectively dismisses the real interest they have in this experience.

So i don't doubt your enthusiasm, but i think your drinking the ol' self made cool aid somewhat. You admit to having little experience, and it shows if you make a populist style suggestion that effectively advocates enormous compromise for the realisation of a vision belonging to a limited few.

That you cite that would bring great experience (if we could kowtow to the 'select' who would direct, write etc.) Again is against the very point of why you still have guys making a feature on 2 bucks and a camcorder belonging to there aunt.

Its to experience it themselves, to learn themselves, and ultimately to realise their own potential.

Incidentally a lot of amazing things would and could be achieved if individual motives were removed for sake of a self declared so called 'greater good' theres a reason it hasn't happened...

I'd suggest reviewing your suggestions and being a lot more serious in its planning and proposition - for serving the mutual interests of would be participants in it. Rather than blowing the trumpet of joy declaring what a wonderful and amazing thing it could be so... prematurely as it were!

Good luck with it!

I hear ya, and I've heard the same thing all my life from hundreds of bitter actors and unfulfilled artists. I grew up living back stage in a theatre being baby sat by actors, musicians, directors and playwrights, all spouting the same individualist approach; all of them citing their various reasons for not agressively engaging in the business aspects of their art.

I feel in no position to defend my "premature" declarations. There are two kinds of people, those who make change and those who wait around for change to happen. Planning, structuring, developing -- these are things people do instead of taking action. And the idea that a filmmaker (or any artist) would choose to not be a part of a team (not creatively mind you, but in strictly a business manner) is, to me, the same as committing professional suicide.

I'm not talking here about some sort of creative relationships. I'm talking about THE BUSINESS of that thing called show. THAT is where artists fail, often miserably. I'm looking for people who want to CHANGE that aspect of themselves. Novice or veteran, seasoned pro or newcomer, I want the people who are going to take charge of their professional future. No one can help a person be a better talent. That's up to the individual. But business, marketing, promotion -- as I've said before these things demand a group, an alliance, a team of people who refuse to sit on the sidelines waiting for business to magically enact around them like some kind of mystical whirlwind. All these stories of Robert Rodriguez or Kevin Smith -- all these ridiculous notions that a single person would or could ever exist exactly as they did in the moment that they did it. The world has changed, the market has changed. In business you band together and move one of our own into the spotlight. That's how things are accomplished in the real world.

Anyone who doesn't think a team mentality is imperative in this business or any other will, I assure you, end up just as bitter and unfulfilled as all the hundred of artists I knew growing up. The endgame is real. In my mind, as it pertains to the business side of filmmaking, you will either eventually give up, you will continue to churn your legs alone never getting anywhere and never accomplishing anything, or you will band together with others and at least have a chance at succeeding.

Discovery. Does. Not. Happen. To. You.

You, me, none of us will ever be discovered. That is the fact. Hard work, talent, and coming together with others to form a common goal is what wins in this world. Everything else is a story someone told you to sell a book.

Again, I've already raised my hand and am ready to put up the cash (and, again, I'm not talking about any of us risking any "real" money. With the kinds of budgets these guys can work with if we could all come with 500 bucks to the pot we can accomplish so much).

Unity is the only thing the common man has to overcome giants. I'm talking about accomplishing something while so many of you are talking about leaving things exactly as they are.

But I'm here asking and waiting for anyone who wants to move forward with me. Damn the plans, damn the risks. ACTION. That's it. If the film we back is a flop, who cares? We're now stronger, smarter, and most of all we're united as one force -- a force we can march on through the next battle and the next, garnering more troops, more followers and fans, and most importantly a louder voice.

If we invest our financial interests in a filmmaker with a proven record and a in a script that we think beats all the others submitted, we can change the way things are done in our creative business lives moving forward.

What I'm talking about here matters, maybe as much as any amount of technical expertise or film theory. This matters, what we do now. I think it matters.

 

[Chamber005]

If you are asking for the filmmakers here to give you a GIFT of money, then perhaps you should market your film through such sites as IndieGoGo http://www.indiegogo.com If your film is attractive and interesting to the members here, they can make a donation that is 100% legal and tax deductible.

Otherwise, if you are asking for Investment money from the public members here who you don't have any pre-existing business relationship with, then you are already running foul of the SEC laws. I am not a lawyer, so you probably want to check with a real lawyer about asking for investment money, but I know that only Qualified Investors can invest, and that Qualified Investor is often NOT the general public at large.

Here are a few things I know about that you might look in to:

Forming a Club with Dues is legal. Many filmmaker organizations do this and dues paying members have access to the club resources. These are known as Not for Profit organizations, like the Boy Scouts or even the ASC, or any other professional organization, where the dues and the profits from the work are reinvested back in to the organization and mission of the organization. Political parties and national organizations like the NRA operate in this way too. I know a few filmmaker groups who operate like this and they make very particular films (like for the HP Lovecraft film festival every year), or religious films.

Sell a film school where the school is to create a film from start to finish. Get any Filmmakers magazine and you see loads of these ads in them.

Sell a book or DVD that teaches people how to make films or how to use cameras as a means to finance yourself. I know a few filmmakers who do this, even Barry Green does this.


I know I would have no interest to join a filmmakers club unless they have some resources that I would like to have access too. I also would not join any film production club unless it was local either. I suspect most members of DVXUSER feel the same way too.

I hope that this ends this thread. I hope that you stop asking for public investments, its a quick way to find trouble for yourself. If you decide to open a film school, write a book or make a DVD, start a film club then please take it to its appropriate forums.

I am not looking for investors in anything. There's nothing to invest in. I'm talking about an alliance. I'm talking about people coming together and making a decision. I have no personal interest in what I'm talking about at all except for forming said alliance. It's the kind of negativity that you're spewing that destroys progressive thinking. I'm not asking for anyone to donate to anything. I'm saying *I* have money that I want to invest. I want other people who also believe in the process to let me know so that we can come together and be united and stronger than we would be alone.

I've been on these forums for a while now and I'm only doing all this now because I've watched the endless sea of blank stares that permeate these boards when it comes to the topic of business. I'm saying let's come together as PEOPLE, not as a company. Forming an ALLIANCE. People educating THEMSELVES through the process of helping to produce a film.

If all you have to bring to my ideas are negativity, please keep your comments to yourself; and if you're going to comment please read what I write before you do. I personally want no creative stake in any of this. My projects are my own. I'm talking about us coming together to earn an education in film business and marketing instead of the great nothingness you pay 20K to some college for to learn.

Thanks for your input, but it really had little bearing.

 

[lawriejaffa]

hear ya, and I've heard the same thing all my life from hundreds of bitter actors and unfulfilled artists. I grew up living back stage in a theatre being baby sat by actors, musicians, directors and playwrights, all spouting the same individualist approach; all of them citing their various reasons for not agressively engaging in the business aspects of their art.

In actual fact, i and most of the filmakers here who work full time producing films, or maintaining production companies - will have done so for the precise reasons of 'realism' and integrating that into there (tries not to gag at the phrase) hehe, strategy for success.

Your talking the talk about business, but your making all kinds of over the top assumptions about what would or could lead to success. Your also reading from some kind of insane manual on positive delusional thinking!

Whats with crap like this?

Discovery. Does. Not. Happen. To. You.

This and a lot of your 'know bests' are coming from a place of idealism, pure and utter idealism which is nice. But come one... cheesy stories aside and pleas for us to unite, and making assumptions (ironically completely incorrect) are not the way to do it mon amie.

If you are new to all this, do you honestly think such ideas have not already been considered? There is no difference to what your saying, to what could be said by some unitary idealist walking into any city chamber of commerce in your country.

 

[Chamber005]

In actual fact, i and most of the filmakers here who work full time producing films, or maintaining production companies - will have done so for the precise reasons of 'realism' and integrating that into there (tries not to gag at the phrase) hehe, strategy for success.

Your talking the talk about business, but your making all kinds of over the top assumptions about what would or could lead to success. Your also reading from some kind of insane manual on positive delusional thinking!

Whats with crap like this?

Discovery. Does. Not. Happen. To. You.

This and a lot of your 'know bests' are coming from a place of idealism, pure and utter idealism which is nice. But come one... cheesy stories aside and pleas for us to unite, and making assumptions (ironically completely incorrect) are not the way to do it mon amie.

If you are new to all this, do you honestly think such ideas have not already been considered? There is no difference to what your saying, to what could be said by some unitary idealist walking into any city chamber of commerce in your country.

I don't understand why you'd be against and so intent on berating someone else's call to action. There's no part of reason that makes sense to me why you would find it so necessary to repeatedly express your personal disdain for what I'm urging to manifest here. Strong ideals is a good thing. Watered down reasons to dissuade idealism is what cripples progression.

It matters not in the LEAST that my motivation is based in an ideal of unity; I never once said that what I'm talking about here will absolutely lead to individual success, I'm saying as a united front we could together be a more powerful force in the shared experience of working with and helping to produce a feature that, if we choose a proven director to support, might see us all the way to helping a film reach distribution. But for you to say that I am incorrect in anything that I'm saying is complete and total rubbish, man. I don't care what people have THOUGHT of before, I'm talking about what people are DOING.

The bottom line is that there is either a problem with ego or a problem with trust, but there is absolutely nothing incorrect about my "assumption" that this would be an invaluable learning process for everyone involved -- certainly more valuable than most film school educations or instructional DVDs and books. Business like most things requires consistent DOING, consistent ACTION. That's all I'm talking about -- for the people who are not currently making strides in the BUSINESS of filmmaking, come give me a how-ya-do and we'll take action together. Just action. Raw, deliberate action towards our futures. That's it. We all pay the price of admission and we all take the ride from beginning to end.

There's no need for my motivations or inspirations to be dissected by people here who are not interested in what inspires me and others to progress or our means of getting there. This is pure and straight forward. Link up or don't. Defending purpose only serves to suck the energy from the purpose. We go, we lay it down and we strive together for something greater than the sum of our parts. There's nothing complex here, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I'm game as long as I can direct and have full final cut and all rights to future derivative works.

 

[Chamber005]

I'm game as long as I can direct and have full final cut and all rights to future derivative works.

lol That's the exact opposite of what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about people coming together regarding the business of filmmaking, personal creative endevours aside (other than input on the choice of director, script, etc). I can't believe more people aren't seeing how invaluable doing something like this would be to all our futures.

 

[lawriejaffa]

But for you to say that I am incorrect in anything that I'm saying is complete and total rubbish

Oh its an interesting point you make (er not the quote) just incidentally really with your call to action, that i found to be worth discussing. Your quite fixed in your point of view, your not asking how such a thing could work. In reality i think you'd find the answers here quite dissapointing, take Hudson and the dude with the amazing clown avatar, there taking the piss.

Not out of you personally, but the notion of this idea.

Your pitching something as if its 'BUSINESS' with a glaring lack of obvious business sense or detail - and a huge dose of 'self belief' teetering on the edge of shall we say, excessive optimism.

The 'if we'd just' or 'we can do anything' or 'let's just do it!' Is stuff that as film producers and directors - is actually.... wait for it...

what we do every day.

So if someone who pops along suggests an idea that we should all compromise into one grand project for the sake of what sounds like psuedo life experience, in effect because we could... with no real business or professional justification, from someone who admits there a novice... yet accredits themselves with some kind of supposed business savvy.

Well... can you blame the bemusement.

Directors and producers work hard to realise there goals - the creation of a film is circumstantial to those goals.

Directors want to be realised for there vision, producers want to get stories they like told with good cuts %, (i mean im generalising here grossly) but point is, nobody is going to go through the sheer hell of making a film only to feel like a pawn in some kind of meaningless entity except...

So someone like you, who doesnt have much filmmaking experience and would like to learn from stuff like this but most wouldn't see how this could help.

So gosh, PM Zak, or anyone that makes films in your 'obvious' top dvxuser directors list, and offer yourself as a runner or production assistant, or if you've learned stuff then as crew for that role. But for goodness sake, don't be surprised at sceptism to such naive grandiosity.

I am however all for filmmakers working together - this they already do though - often forming cooperatives, film societies, production companies and so forth. It is actually fairly notorious however, just how fickle many of those director-director (yikes!) working relationships are

 

[Chamber005]

So you've made my point for me. I'm looking for people who don't "have much experience" in the business of producing, marketing, promoting and getting a film into distribution "and would like to learn from stuff like this" (e.g. producing, marketing, promoting and getting a film into distribution).

I'm not looking for people who want to do some creative collaberation, that's a different thing altogether. I'm speaking strictly to the guys who are looking to move into the next stage (and probably the most important stage) of filmmaking, the people who haven't yet taken that leap.

This is MY personal leap and you are invited to come with. That's it.

 

[lawriejaffa]

So you've made my point for me.

Please enough with the rhetoric...

I'm not looking for people who want to do some creative collaberation

Well... thats what it is if people work together to produce a creative piece of work.

I'm speaking strictly to the guys who are looking to move into the next stage (and probably the most important stage) of filmmaking, the people who haven't yet taken that leap.

My god... I get it, your looking for the real guys, the guys that have the vision, the ones ready to see the light - the ones that have such brass balls they don't need to use there hands to pull door handles. I get it, but its fluff...

If your looking for people who are inexperienced, and think that together you could learn from oh i don't know, a creative collaboration say (ie. making a film unpaid...) then that is wholly different, though far more credible, than the great dvxuser manifesto you just made a few pages ago.

There was a chap who said, exactly this, that local community groups etc can work for this. And for goodness sake - i honestly would suggest cutting on the 'bs' here.

Anyone that wants to work will do so for mutual benefits, not because there 'ready for the next stage' or about to 'make a great leap' - apart from motivational speakers and readers of The Secret hehe.

I'm pulling your leg a bit, but keep it real bro is my suggestion.