Shooting from a real helicopter (not RC)

you saw the link i posted? He shot with 5D and that footage is very good. So try asking him...

Just another option to consider.
 
teddybear said:
Jawa,

I also have the sony hd1000,

You are better off using the JVC compared to that. Thats 1080i single chip, and very small sensor.
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Which one is more light sensitive? We're shooting in the evening, probably around sunset, so light sensitivity is a factor.

We have a shoulder support which is kind of like this one:

gliders-sun-2.jpg


And we've been talking about supporting it on the helicopter's seat instead of the belt to minimize vibrations. I haven't had the chance to actually try this, since the helicopter costs money as soon as it's in the air, and there's a five-six minute minimum of air time.
But it feels like it should work.
 
Shooting at dusk or sunset? Then in that case your DSLR is a better option. both those cams you mentioned you have access to, the jvc HD100 and sony HD1000 are not at home in low light.
 
I don't know anything about the Sony HD1000, the JVC is a very good "HDV" camera, but the lower the light the noisier it gets. Which I guess is true with most cameras but especially with HDV.

That shoulder rig will probably get in the way more than help. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, with the camera support I use I remove the shoulder mount, matte box and the waist support, flip the handles up - so I can adjust focus without letting go of the handle. Also, the Eurocopter is an excellent helicopter although if I recall correctly, the EC120 only has one door for the front (pilot) and rear (passengers), which might mean that you can't fly with it open or preferably off.

I agree with teddybear, your DSLR is probably the best choice, especially considering the ergonomics of the EC120. If you decide to go with the 7D or 5DMkII you should do some tests with different lenses to see how well the image stabilization works. On some Canon lenses the IS tents to "hunt" making the image not as stable as you might get with it turned off.

Depending on the pilot and what arrangements have been made for the aircraft, and as a pilot myself, I would welcome anyone shooting out of an aircraft I was flying to take an hour or so on the ground before I even started the engine to get a feel of how you want to get the shots you need.

My suggestion is that you use which ever camera your most familiar with, learning how to use the camera in a helicopter is a really bad idea. If you know how to use the camera well then shooting from a helicopter isn't that big of a deal. It also depends on what kind of shots your hoping to get. For your first time I'd stay as wide as you can to get what you need.

Good luck and have fun.
 
ChuckS said:
That shoulder rig will probably get in the way more than help. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, with the camera support I use I remove the shoulder mount, matte box and the waist support, flip the handles up - so I can adjust focus without letting go of the handle. Also, the Eurocopter is an excellent helicopter although if I recall correctly, the EC120 only has one door for the front (pilot) and rear (passengers), which might mean that you can't fly with it open or preferably off.
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The chopper has a slide door on the left side, and we'll sit with the door open facing out and wearing a saftey harness, so I don't think the shoulder rig will get in the way. I went and tried sitting in that helicopter with the shoulder mount yesterday, with the 7D and my 16-35 lens and it'll be fine as long as the vibrations won't give us rolling shutter issues.

But keeping the support against the seat might help, at least in theory.

The problem is I won't be able to test this in practice before we actually go out and shoot, because the helicopter costs 1000 bucks per hour to fly so even a five minute test run is expensive. The best we can do is try to cover everything from the ground as well in case something goes wrong. We do have two 7D cameras so we can do alternative shots.
 
without "real stabilizers" the next best thing are your 2 arms.
Propping it against the machine will cause vibrations. You will want a compact rig. that pic you showed with the VX camera might be too cumbersome. Some sort of 2 handles thats closer to the dslr, something like the hotrodcameras handle thingy.
 
I had a guy a while back use the Halo Rig HD for his helicopter shots... He actually attached a gyro to the bottom to really get amazing stabilization. Even without the gyro the shots were much smoother than any other of his previous setups. Halo Rigs give you a compact 2 hand stabilization solution you would be looking for, and the Mini is designed for dslrs and small cameras.
 
dustwaterwindfire said:
use of cinesaddle or something like it would be great.
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I was actually lookin for something like that during my shoots, something like a pillow to cushion the long lens of my JVC. But that was because I was shootin through a window.

Jawa will be sitting and shooting out through an open door.


Thats the beauty with this DSLRs, theyre so light and easy to control.
 
chucks got alot of great info . kenlab ks8 gyro is what you need. i found mounting it for the horizontal plane works best . have my site up again . check out www.hdimages.ca look in movies and go to gyro demo ( chasing the seaplane).
 
The problem is, I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere in a small town here, so I'm really limited with what kind of extra equipment I can rent, and we're less than three weeks away so ordering something like even a halo rig from abroad is also kind of too risky.

The shoulder support I can borrow looks kind of similar to the one on the picture I posted, but I don't have an exact image of it and even the guy who owns it, who runs the equipment rental service here in town knows what it's called.
But the support that goes into the belt is telescopic and has suspension so it'll absorb vibrations rather than add to them, at least theoretically. If it doesn't work, using just arms/shoulder support is plan B.
 
i would try to support your shoulder harness with a bungy to something on the door or roof. we took out a little interior light and hooked it in through the hole . that put the camera back just a bit to keep out of the prop wash,it just to took some weight and stabled it up even more .
 
The Cinesaddle works great in a helicopter, I sometimes turn my saddle upside down which gives me better grip on the camera. The shots are really smooth .



Jawa Ex Machina said:
The chopper has a slide door on the left side, and we'll sit with the door open facing out and wearing a saftey harness, so I don't think the shoulder rig will get in the way. I went and tried sitting in that helicopter with the shoulder mount yesterday, with the 7D and my 16-35 lens and it'll be fine as long as the vibrations won't give us rolling shutter issues.

But keeping the support against the seat might help, at least in theory.

The problem is I won't be able to test this in practice before we actually go out and shoot, because the helicopter costs 1000 bucks per hour to fly so even a five minute test run is expensive. The best we can do is try to cover everything from the ground as well in case something goes wrong. We do have two 7D cameras so we can do alternative shots.
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Ok we ended up using the shoulder rig, and shot both with the wide angle 16-35mm 2.8L II and the 50mm 1.2L II on the 7D.

No visible rolling shutter at all. Granted, it was a night shoot, but still.
 
Can you post any of the shots?

Here's a helicopter shoot I did recently.

We removed the right rear door, I set up a tripod with a 5/8 pin and a mini-rod and grip head that extended and hung just outside the door. Attached small bungee to that and cradled the lens with the bungee. Worked great.

Unfortunately I shot this at 60 fps and forgot to change the shutter to 120, I had it set to 60 which give the impression of frame blending and the image is not as sharp as I would like.

Nevertheless the support worked great.

 
Before I post this I apologise for the grading and edit - not my doing. Anyway this was shot out the door of an R44, probably one of the worst choices possible for helicopter shooting. Theres simply no room for any type of stabilisation - lucky we I had a good pilot. In this case the output was always web delivery so we shot 1080/25p and smoothed it out in AE. Was shot on an HPX500. As I have a 5d now, if I had to shoot in an r44 again the same way Id def. go the 5d and use a gyro.

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I AGREE
 
ChuckS said:
Can you post any of the shots?
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A bit difficult at the moment. I need to reinstall the OS and all software on my editing computer, plus we're using the footage in MARIANNE so there's all kinds of legal stuff I need to have a look at first.

Plus, we're in the middle of shooting right now and I haven't even had time to set up an ftp so I can send the footage to my editor.

There will be some in the teaser trailer though.
 
ChuckS said:
Can you post any of the shots?

Here's a helicopter shoot I did recently.

We removed the right rear door, I set up a tripod with a 5/8 pin and a mini-rod and grip head that extended and hung just outside the door. Attached small bungee to that and cradled the lens with the bungee. Worked great.

Unfortunately I shot this at 60 fps and forgot to change the shutter to 120, I had it set to 60 which give the impression of frame blending and the image is not as sharp as I would like.

Nevertheless the support worked great.

Click to expand...

Nice shots! You wouldn't happen to have a picture of that rig you did?
 
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