FS7: Shooting Custom Slog3 can we see a Look on a monitor out of camera?

C

chrisccw

Well-known member
Is it still the case that we can't see a monitor LUT unless we are in Cine EI? I have a client confused about where "F55Like" or Rec 709 shows up when enabled in Custom with Slog3. And now, I'm thoroughly confused too. Need to keep this simple for renters. I get a headache reading through all the Cine EI threads, no way I'm sending them there to figure things out. How can we see anything but a flat Slog3 image while in Custom?
 
The camera is annoyingly limited in this way. Better to do it all outside the camera with a LUT box. Odyssey7Q+ has one built in.
 
Custom is primarily designed for use when a WYSIWYG workflow is desired, or when only minimal grading will be done in post. Any settings you choose in Custom mode are baked in. So adding a monitor LUT on top of those paint menus would lead to huge problems and is completely uneccessary. If you want to use a LUT, then shoot Cine EI. If you want to shoot Custom, there is no logical reason for a LUT. In this regard, Sony is saving you from yourself.

If you are shooting with a flat S-LOG image in Custom, why are you even using Custom at all? Do it properly and use Cine EI. That is not to say that S-LOG3 should not be used in Custom, but it should be used in conjunction with other paint menus to give you a WYSIWYG image (or close to it). If your custom settings are so flat that you feel you need a LUT, you shouldn't be using Custom.
 
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Chris,

You don't want to shoot slog in Custom mode anyway, since in it you're stuck with Sony's 20 year old color science (sgamut). If you will be grading this footage yourself and don't have a lot of experience grading then you'll probably appreciate the newer color science sgamut3.cine which you can only access in CineEI mode.

So it's sort of a win-win situation going with CineEI mode. Doug's pointed out some valid points as well.
 
I'm a fan of Cine EI after shooting Providence and getting a good feel for it. Lots of flexibility in post and even some forgiveness of not so perfectly exposed footage. Just got it back from the colorist, 82 minutes edited and only a couple of noise issues to deal with. If I can do it, anybody can.
 
I prefer CINE EI too, but getting back to the original point of this thread, there are many instances when a baked-in WYSIWYG look using Custom is desired and is actually the best choice for some productions or certain clients -- but looking at an MLUT while shooting Custom would be a really bad idea.
 
Everybody has an opinion about this subject - why you should or shouldn't shoot Log in Custom. To9 answer your question though. An Odyssey 7 or b7Q will allow you to add a Out after the camera and then carry that to a larger monitor. Works great.
 
Yep I shoot custom Slog all the time.. or any shoots which will be in the 2000, 4000+ region.. aka non studio shoots.

Simply one needs a lut and that must be created by an external device. I use the SHD702. O7 and others will work too.

S
 
Simple answer.. don't shoot slog in custom.. not designed for it really.. as you can see from what options the camera gives you.. slog is to get max DR/color from the camera for grading.. as soon as you start applying custom settings thats lost.. use Cine EI with LUT.. simple.. WYSIWYG use custom or burn in a LUT in EI..
 
CustomSlog also produces the most stable workflow...
Add- Chosen Lut.

The Custom-HG workflow is thus..
Dink around endlessly trying to kill the sony look

The EISlog workflow is thus.
Add chosen lut, make exposure compensations as per the operators on set choices which are now lost unless you use crappy proprietary software

If you pass your work to third parties one will see the other two are non starters in any professional set up.

S
 
Ben Scott said:
Sam, is that image inbuilt NR in custom mode switched off? and no NR applied in post to the EI image?
Click to expand...

One of the joys of SlogCustom is that you can put NR in camera ON. In these cases it was set to Medium and the camera set to 4000 and 8000 ISO (I think)

The images do not have NR added in post..

I dont consider to NR in post to make up part of a professional workflow (a personal choice I know). I would only use NR in post in a situation where there was an 'accident' on set.

S
 
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Well that seems a bit of an unfair comparison. If you're shooting high iso or pushing high iso then NR would absolutely be a viable part of the workflow.

As for NR in post, if it's good enough for Fincher, it's good enough or me :)
 
Ben Scott said:
Well that seems a bit of an unfair comparison. If you're shooting high iso or pushing high iso then NR would absolutely be a viable part of the workflow.

As for NR in post, if it's good enough for Fincher, it's good enough or me :)
Click to expand...

I said a personal choice. Im pushing my clients to get them to add a (single) LUT in post, suggesting they deal with varying exposure (EI) or clog their machines with NR is not appropriate at my budget level which maybe lower than Fincher.

S
 
I get that completely, just saying that your 'what beats what' comparison pic would make more sense if both had nr or neither did, seeing as high iso work would bring nr into the equation for cine-EI stuff too.
 
I put 'beats' into these things '' for a reason. The second image I would however suggest that the SlogEI is not fixable.

Simply people should run their own tests and draw their own conclusions.

S
 
Fair enough. I just think it's comparing apples to oranges.

I don't think the custom mode looks too pretty at 10,000 iso there either, but pretty sure neatvideo could make a decent fist of matching it with the EI image.
 
I really only put my opinions (and ACTUAL IMAGES) into the thread to counter Dougs 'no luts in Custom to save them from themselves' quote which I feel is complete utter hokum.

At least I post actual images, which can open up actual chat. NR away on mine or post your own results :)

Maybe you can swing me against my NR in post bias. Technically I feel that amplification and NR are done best in camera as those steps (should?) happen before the image compression so the algorithms have more meat to work with.

S
 
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