SHOOTING A FEATURE with CANON 5D

NextWaveG said:
We're looking at shooting a feature on the 5D MkII on a $100k budget. As much as I'd love to shoot on RED, can't say we have enough to budget for it.
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There always way's to trim things up. Who ever is your producer; and if he/she is worth there weight in salt, at a 100K, it can be pulled off. So you got a 100,000 thousand, that's ample enough to make a film. Trim up costs, and if you can get 100k already, can you get another 30K.

Maybe that's all you could squeeze, sooo.

How's this:

Offer a contractual agreement to pay a little later on some of the expenses if you can. You'll be obligated to pay them, however after your 30 to 60 day shoot ( a figure out of thin air ) then sell that barely used RED system for the cash to pay the remaining people that agreed to be paid after. You can also go another step further to assure them they will get paid, by letting them have a lean on the RED camera as promise to pay. This way to satisfy the lean holder or holders, you must pay them. This would assure those that are not comfortable or fully trusting to be paid after production.


The truth is; your film isn't gonna be bad all of a sudden because you lowered your budget from 100K to 60 to 70k to acquire a very good system like RED.

You come out ahead on many aspects. The quality your production will have, etc. Also selling your RED system at the end gains you back 90 to 95% of your camera cost. That's the cheapest rental on earth for any camera system if you do the numbers. It's a win win no matter what.

My advice is; worry less about the easy problems to solve, and worry about the one that is always glossed over to quickly. The Story; it's foundations and how it carries over to the script. Put the energy in that. It will pay you back in spades, if you do so...


This stuff is your " PRODUCERS" job to make it happen. So his director etc, can make their film. Whoever he/she is, they need to think out all angles and do the number one thing a good producer does, or should do well. " PROBLEM SOLVE & CREATE SOLUTIONS"



Michael Pappas
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I'm in pre-production now for a $70,000 feature I'm shooting next year. It will be shot with the 5D or a newer improved DSLR. Rental is very expensive here so I've invested almost $30,000 in my 5D rig. I have just about everything I need now to shoot a feature and it is so light and compact I can carry it all on my own and I don't need a large crew. I recently shot a 6min short with a crew of 2 and I wouldn't need any more than 5 or 6 on my feature. There is really good quality support gear available for DSLRs that enable us to get very big money looking shots.

I recently saw a film shot on the RED with a million dollar budget and it was not lit well. I could have shot those scenes with the 5D and they would have looked good so on top of the cost of the RED and support equipment you have to consider the cost of the lighting trucks and crew and generators etc not to mention the cost of feeding the crew.

Any DP that can't get great results with a DSLR should look for another line of work. Spend your money on good actors, good food, good production design, good crew, a very good colorist, and a great script. And leave some money under the bed so that when you blow the budget you can still concentrate on the creative side.

end rant.
 
squig said:
Any DP that can't get great results with a DSLR should look for another line of work.
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Agreed, part are you paying your DP fairly for the extra work involved in getting those good results? How much post time is it going to take to fix issues that you can't work around in-camera?
 
... If your budget is over 50 or 60K you should be shooting RED.

Not just for yourself, but for the people who invest TIME in your project. You owe them the best chance they have at their work shining and being seen...
 
Here's something else to keep in mind: these DSLRs only have an actual resolvable resolution of about 600-700 lines (the rest is aliasing). That's comparable to the PAL XL1 that Danny Boyle used to shoot 28 Days Later. That particular transfer looks terrible on Blu-Ray. If you want to future proof your production, then you should consider Red or, even better, film.

On the other hand, if you're just making a quick buck with a straight-to-DVD release, then I guess it doesn't really matter.
 
subtleinspiration said:
Agreed, part are you paying your DP fairly for the extra work involved in getting those good results? How much post time is it going to take to fix issues that you can't work around in-camera?
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It's not like working with 4k files is fast. RED or 5D either way you have to grade to get a look.
 
subtleinspiration said:
Here's something else to keep in mind: these DSLRs only have an actual resolvable resolution of about 600-700 lines (the rest is aliasing). That's comparable to the PAL XL1 that Danny Boyle used to shoot 28 Days Later. That particular transfer looks terrible on Blu-Ray. If you want to future proof your production, then you should consider Red or, even better, film.

On the other hand, if you're just making a quick buck with a straight-to-DVD release, then I guess it doesn't really matter.
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We've seen Barry's charts but in the field the quality is there. I think if 28 days was re-shot on a 5D it would look much better. Besides when I first watched the film I had no complaints about the resolution because it was entertaining. I've seen my film projected on a decent 15' screen and it looks great and only a cinematographer would be able to tell it's not film.
 
squig said:
It's not like working with 4k files is fast. RED or 5D either way you have to grade to get a look.
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I'm not talking about grading. I'm talking about issues with HDSLR footage that you have to deal with in the field and fix later, i.e. rolling shutter, aliasing, and moire.
 
subtleinspiration said:
I'm not talking about grading. I'm talking about issues with HDSLR footage that you have to deal with in the field and fix later, i.e. rolling shutter, aliasing, and moire.
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There's not a lot you can do in post, a bit of added grain can help with moire. Anamorphic lenses reduce aliasing and there's anti-moire filters. Rolling shutter should be addressed in the field.
 
subtleinspiration said:
If the 5D only has little more real resolution than a PAL XL1, how would it look better? They attached real lenses to the front of the XL1 too.
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Resolution on paper isn't everything. There's a lot more to it like dynamic range, compression, colour space. 28 days later looks lo-fi. Stuff I've and others have shot with the 5D doesn't it's that simple.

I haven't used an XL1 but I have shot with a Z1 and a DVC30 and the 5D blows them away.
 
It's not as sharp. You like the DOF and that's the BIGGEST difference. If the HDSLRs didn't deliver shallow DOF, then no one would be using them PERIOD.
 
not to mention the weird distinctive plasticy texture all HDSLR's have.. and how it makes skin look under incandescent light... lets hate on the 5d some more :)

an EX1 or a HPX170 with a cinemek G35 would be preferable in 90% of situations for me. except for extreme lowlight of course.

you could use the same monitor, rails, follow focus, lenses, shoulder mount rig and everything. and just rent the 5D for those lowlight scenes :)

or just go RED for the whole thing.
 
subtleinspiration said:
It's not as sharp. You like the DOF and that's the BIGGEST difference. If the HDSLRs didn't deliver shallow DOF, then no one would be using them PERIOD.
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Are you seriously comparing the image from the 5d with the xl1? IMHO you can't begin to compare the HVX with the 5d. Got my 5d and the HVX went bye-bye. EX-1 nice with adapter but no thanks. 5d footage looks great downloaded from vimeo played on a 50 inch LCD with crap compression. I still vote for RED on a 500k budget, but to disparage it by comparing it to an xl1 is kind of off.
 
I'm in no way saying the 5D is crap...I'm ultimately planning to get one at some point in the future. However, if its like the 7D, then it's true resolution is around 600 lines. The PAL XL1's resolution is 576 lines.

How do you know that the 5D will look any better on Blu-Ray than 28 Days Later?
 
subtleinspiration said:
I'm in no way saying the 5D is crap...I'm ultimately planning to get one at some point in the future. However, if its like the 7D, then it's true resolution is around 600 lines. The PAL XL1's resolution is 576 lines.

How do you know that the 5D will look any better on Blu-Ray than 28 Days Later?
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I've burned quite a few Blu-Ray disc since i've owned the 5d and i'm convinced when you get one you'll be pleased. But since you mentioned 28 Days Later, I do need to add that to my collection of B-Ray.
 
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