GH2 Shooting 101 question

J

Julie_Freed

Member
Are you not supposed to use zoom while filming? Most of the better looking videos I've seen using the GH2 appear to be using a dolly/slider, and they just slowly creep their way towards to subject and it's beautiful. Maybe I am missing something, but it doesn't appear that zooming with the lens is that common. Is it discouraged for "professional" results?
 
No, it depends on the type of shooting you do. For narrative filmmaking, you typically dolly with, to and from your subject, rarely do you see zooms in narrative films. ENG, type cams, and camcorders, have a servo lens, which is made for zooming. Cinema lenses, are not made for zooming usually. But thats not to say you cant zoom if a shot will work with it. You need a lens with a constant aperature, or you will lose light, and see the iris closing as you zoom. Hitchcock was famous for zooming, and dollying together at the same time, to create a really cool vertigo effect.
 
maranfilms said:
No, it depends on the type of shooting you do. For narrative filmmaking, you typically dolly with, to and from your subject, rarely do you see zooms in narrative films. ENG, type cams, and camcorders, have a servo lens, which is made for zooming. Cinema lenses, are not made for zooming usually. But thats not to say you cant zoom if a shot will work with it. You need a lens with a constant aperature, or you will lose light, and see the iris closing as you zoom. Hitchcock was famous for zooming, and dollying together at the same time, to create a really cool vertigo effect.
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Good answer!

Maranfilms knows his stuff - I'd listen to him.

Still the best/funniest 1 minute short film I've ever seen Sir!
 
Zooming is a tool like any other. What most people object to is not the presence of zoom but the kind of footage we associate it being used with.

I've gotten a lot of compliments on the way I used zooms in several of my videos, especially in conjunction with slow-motion. It is an effect that is really, really easy to do poorly, though. :)

And like anything else, it's an aesthetic - some people like it and some don't.

We used it a fair amount in this video.

 
Also, the Hitchcock remarks hit the nail on the head from my perspective. On the other hand, in the movie Foul Play from 1978 (a guilty pleasure of mine and one of Dudley Moore's funniest slapstick performances) they have not dated as well and can sometimes be slightly distracting.

It's a technique, like any other.
 
Per Lichtman said:
Zooming is a tool like any other. What most people object to is not the presence of zoom but the kind of footage we associate it being used with.

I've gotten a lot of compliments on the way I used zooms in several of my videos, especially in conjunction with slow-motion. It is an effect that is really, really easy to do poorly, though. :)

And like anything else, it's an aesthetic - some people like it and some don't.

We used it a fair amount in this video.

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Very nice. :) How do you get quality zoom like that? It looks like it was done on a dolly. Do you use a follow focus device? Or just a high quality zoom lens? I only have the stock 14-42mm on the GH2 and I can't get anything close to that. It's all jerky.
 
Thanks. All the zoom shots were done with the servo zoom on an HV30, set to the slowest zoom speed. It is one of the reasons I still use the camera.

I'd be curious as to how the servo zooms on the Panasonic Lumix X series compare.

Note: All the singing shots and the flower shots were done with the GH2 and a prime lens instead.
 
maranfilms said:
No, it depends on the type of shooting you do. For narrative filmmaking, you typically dolly with, to and from your subject, rarely do you see zooms in narrative films.
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Your'e right in that it depends on the kind of shooting you do, or what you're shooting. I still see a fair amount of zooming in modern cinema. I think the only type of camera move that I see consistently, more than dolly, crane, etc. is steadicam work.

ENG, type cams, and camcorders, have a servo lens, which is made for zooming. Cinema lenses, are not made for zooming usually.
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Actually, I believe most cinema zooms are tailored to zooming during shooting. Still lenses/SLR glass, however, may not be. Old 18-100/T3.1 Cooke Classic Zooms are geared both on the zoom and iris ring, and focus tracks from the widest end to the tightest end with extremely minimal (barely noticable) light loss during.

But thats not to say you cant zoom if a shot will work with it. You need a lens with a constant aperature, or you will lose light, and see the iris closing as you zoom. Hitchcock was famous for zooming, and dollying together at the same time, to create a really cool vertigo effect.
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Hence the SLR glass typically not being suited for zooming . A good example of an SLR zoom that's great for the application would be the 14-24/2.8 Nikon G, or I believe the Canon 24-70/2.8.

The kit lens, however, I wouldn't cast my vote on that.
 
Zooming was more widespread in the 70's, when things were a bit more rough and ready.
Michael Winner used to abuse it and made very crude camera moves, but when used in something frenetic like a blaxploitation movie it totally works. It's sledgehammer, but it fits.

Now it's used sparingly, and much more artistic - more in the Kubrick fashion.
 
Is the reason zooms aren't that common in movies, is because it's difficult to make them look good, even for a skilled operator? With DSLR lenses and a bit of practice, you can do tracking zooms on fast action and it can look ok, but anything else just looks poo most of the time. Even with a good cine lens, slow zooms which don't jump or jerk, are a rare thing indeed.

Also, zooming and feathering focus, is a bit of a jedi like art and sometimes it's probably easier to move the camera and just focus on focus.
 
Fresno Bob said:
Zooming was more widespread in the 70's, when things were a bit more rough and ready.
Michael Winner used to abuse it and made very crude camera moves, but when used in something frenetic like a blaxploitation movie it totally works. It's sledgehammer, but it fits.

Now it's used sparingly, and much more artistic - more in the Kubrick fashion.
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+
Except for a bit of resolution loss, a tiny dolly style zoom is best in post. Lot more freedom. I would always use a real dolly for this purpose if given the choice.
 
AdrianF said:
Is the reason zooms aren't that common in movies, is because it's difficult to make them look good, even for a skilled operator?
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Bc zoom does not change perspective like real motion, it is a bit cheese (not natural from human pov)
 
"Munich" used conspicuous yet well-executed and motivated zooms.
It was a newer technology in the late 60's, and became overused... Much like today's razor-thin DOF used anywhere and everywhere for no reason other than the camera can do it.

IMO, push-pull zooms like the Nikon 70-210 4-5.6 or 80-200 2.8 work fairly well in doc, sport, and stage play applications. The Lumix 14-140 and Leica 14-50 also have decent zooms, although you can't really whip zoom with them.
 
Julie_Freed said:
Are you not supposed to use zoom while filming? Most of the better looking videos I've seen using the GH2 appear to be using a dolly/slider, and they just slowly creep their way towards to subject and it's beautiful. Maybe I am missing something, but it doesn't appear that zooming with the lens is that common. Is it discouraged for "professional" results?
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I'm almost certain that when you say 'most of the better looking videos...', you are referring to a 'slow creeping zoom', and not the 'power zoom', as parodied in:


The other class of films that continued the use of the the Power Zoom, where the Hong Kong style Kung Fu movies...

Here's a recent film "My Kung Fu Sweatheart"(2006), but it still has some of that old fashioned Hong Kong Kung Fu flavor...

 
Some European filmmakers still use zooms--even fast conspicuous zooms--to great effect. For example, Claude Lelouche's Les Miserables from 1995. I couldn't find the scene on YouTube, but there's a scene with a Nazi officer playing piano that is done with wild zooms and it really works. Here's the trailer:


At 2:48 there's a zoom, but it's not one of the great stylized zooms I'm talking about. (In fact, that zoom seems like a practical rather than artistic choice.)

So normally I don't like the look of zooms precisely because the perspective changes in an unreal way--but sometimes they're amazing!
 
Gerson said:
Some European filmmakers still use zooms--even fast conspicuous zooms--to great effect. For example, Claude Lelouche's Les Miserables from 1995. I couldn't find the scene on YouTube, but there's a scene with a Nazi officer playing piano that is done with wild zooms and it really works. Here's the trailer:


At 2:48 there's a zoom, but it's not one of the great stylized zooms I'm talking about. (In fact, that zoom seems like a practical rather than artistic choice.)

So normally I don't like the look of zooms precisely because the perspective changes in an unreal way--but sometimes they're amazing!
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Yeah, I think the crane and zoom works much better than the whip pan, zoom effect of the olden days...

On the other hand, how many GH-1/2 users have a crane at their disposal???
 
Kholi said:
Hence the SLR glass typically not being suited for zooming . A good example of an SLR zoom that's great for the application would be the 14-24/2.8 Nikon G, or I believe the Canon 24-70/2.8.

The kit lens, however, I wouldn't cast my vote on that.
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Regarding the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L for zooms. While it is essentially parfocal (which is helpful while zooming) many reviewers have reported issues with the zoom ring "sticking" for lack of a better word, where you have to apply a lot more pressure at a certain point to keep going. I had this issue myself as well, but I do not know if it is universal. Also, the lens changes length as you zoom (which may also be a consideration in terms of doing it smoothly).

Personally, I have a much easier time zooming with the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 L, which is also parfocal but does not change length or stick.
 
Per Lichtman said:
Regarding the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L for zooms. While it is essentially parfocal (which is helpful while zooming) many reviewers have reported issues with the zoom ring "sticking" for lack of a better word, where you have to apply a lot more pressure at a certain point to keep going. I had this issue myself as well, but I do not know if it is universal. Also, the lens changes length as you zoom (which may also be a consideration in terms of doing it smoothly).
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I've personally only used the rehoused version of it, but that's probably something to consider.
 
Setting the particular and very real hurdles that DSLR shooting presents regarding this topic aside a moment, I'm happy to see some defense of the unfairly derided zoom in narrative pictures. One unfortunate reason you probably don't see it much is student filmmakers or enthusiasts have asked that very question and been told by teachers or people on message boards that it looks like tv news, or like a cheesy 70s cop drama, or that it's lazy, the same way screenwriters are always warned against voice over or something. Meanwhile, actual works of art tell all the story you need to know. Kubrick's been mentioned (check out "Barry Lyndon" in particular for the slow zooms out, and certainly some great straight up snap zooms in a few pictures (my favorite is Eyes Wide Shut in the "I will redeem him" scene), but to see how it can be used in not even "special" moments, but as a move to supplement pans and tracks or stand on it's own, check out pretty much anything by the servo zoom master himself - Robert Altman. He never abandoned the slow creeping zoom right up til the end of his days, God bless him. More recently David Gordon Green and Tim Orr have expressed their love for zooms, saying it's the only unmotivated camera "move" that they like, and that a dolly in just makes them think of "Men In Black" (in case you think any technique is immune to being used lazily or unimaginatively). Of course if you really want to show off, saying you shot with a crane or elemack or something sounds cooler than saying you zoomed in and panned left (and don't forget to edit on Final Cut!).
 
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