Shoot Reality Pilot on HMC?

N

noam

Well-known member
Hi Guys,

I'm in development for a reality show pilot that will be submitted to several Canadian and US networks. I've already had some interest from networks so I want to ensure the product I provide them with is broadcast ready.

I've worked on a lot of broadcast material in the past - but always on the post production level. I'm not familiar with standardized HD requirements from broadcasters.

I own an HMC150 and a Lumix GH2, both of which shoot avchd. I was planning on renting an additional HMC150 and using the two HMC's for the bulk of the footage and the GH2 for the interview footage and timelapse shots.

With that said, I've read that often times higher end broadcasters won't accept HMC footage as it has too low of a bit rate and only 4:2:0 color space. I know I can record to an external device, but I'm wondering if at that point I'm betting off shooting on an HVX or a different camera completely...

Any advice?
 
Oh yeah, also - Assuming I am using the HMC, does anyone have recommendations for settings? 30p vs. 60i?
 
Shoot 1080 30p. Post in ProRes 4.2.2. and you will be fine. Broadcasters hate outrageous levels, make sure you keep yours where they need to be to keep the scope gang happy. If you have worked in post then you know the rules and if not they are easy to find. The HMC 150 with the AVCHD coded is certainly a professional broadcast camera and there is enough info to support that statement. If you are blowing it up for the big screen.... different story. Good luck with your show.
All of this is IMHO.
 
No one is currently broadcasting 1080p/30, which means any material originated as such will have to be converted first. So I'd recommend shooting 1080i/30 or 720p/60 if you want a video look (which most reality TV has), or if you want the film look, 24p at either resolution.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys..

Jim - Just curious why you didn't recommend 1080/60i, but rather 1080/30i ...
 
Have you asked them what they need? I've read in many forums that some broadcasters are hard core, some not. Sometimes it seems to take an Insider friendship to get approval. pBS seems to have strict guidelines, a red book, as do the BBC. But some cable outlets seem to be very loose. Sometimes it seems only on the footage you give them, like specifying xdcam format. I've done a lot of checking on this lately, as I am going to be shooting quite important stuff, that might be air-able, and don't want to be told, it's not up to our specs.

Or am being overly cautious? You guys seem to more of an insider knowledge of this.
 
shrigg - I love 24p as well... 99.9% of what I shoot is 24p, but this is one of the rare instances where a higher frame rate is crucial, for many reasons.

8string - The pilot isn't being produced for one network in particular which is why I want to avoid closing any doors because of technical issues. It sounds like most networks judge the content based on a case by case basis, where as a few select networks have very strict guidelines as to what is considered "HD". I know the camera quality is great, but at the end of the day it is ultimately up to the broadcasters.

My plan is to shoot on the HMC simply for the fact that most networks I'll be approaching are still primarily broadcasting SD quality. Plus with the GH2 footage thrown in there, it'll look even better.

If anyone has any additional advice though, I'd greatly appreciate it!
 
I worked on the last season of "Swift Justice with Nancy Grace" doing audio. I was told, although never confirmed it, that we shot everything at 1080/60i.

Tom
 
Jim - Just curious why you didn't recommend 1080/60i, but rather 1080/30i ...
Click to expand...
They're the same thing. 30i is the correct way of listing it, 60i is the incorrect but often used way.

The rule of thumb is to list the horizontal resolution, an i or p as appropriate, a slash and then the frame rate, never the field rate. If you drop the resolution, you then put the i or p after the frame rate, such as 30i, or 24p. But again, you list the frame rate, not the field rate.

So technically 60i means 60 interlaced frames per second, but there just is no such thing. Listing field rates (60i, 50i) is a bad habit camera makers got into that really should be broken. It does little but cause confusion.
 
I would argue that 30i is the wrong way to list it, and 60i is the more correct way. All of the camcorder manufacturers use the terminology of 60i. Only Avid, as far as I can think of, clings to "30i".

30i is a misleading nomenclature because it implies that there are 30 "frames", when in fact there are not. There are 60 fields. Two fields don't really make up a frame, because they are samples from different moments in time. I think "30i" is the bad habit, because it's what causes confusion. Many people seem to think that PAL = 25p because it's "25 frames per second" when in fact it looks nothing like 25p, it looks instead exactly like 50i, which is what it is. 50i looks more like 50p than it does 25p.

The number indicates the number of motion samples per second, and then the letter indicates whether those are full frames ("p") or individual fields ("i"). I find "30i" to be confusing and misleading, whereas "60i" accurately describes the look.
 
Is this a full 22min pilot or more of a 3-7 minute sizzle? If this is to pitch/shop around to networks, then there is a 99% chance this won't go to air.

I also work in development and shoot a lot of sizzles on my HMC's. The technical specs have never been questioned at all.

Goodluck!
 
Broadcasters in Canada don't really care what you shoot on. They care what it is delivered on and that the color is "safe".

Each network has a producers guide stating delivery requirements. And 30p converted to 60i still remains 30p.

A lot of reality shows are shot 720 60p for that more "real" look. Up to you depending on how you want it to look.
 
I work a lot with Shaw Media in Canada, (FoodTV, HGTV, History Channel, etc.) The HMC 150 is not on their accepted camera list. We are allowed to use non standard cameras (DSLRs, GoPros etc) for no more than 10% of the total running length of the program. We even had to get permission to use an EX3 on a series. Most of the other networks in Canada have similar guidelines

You can shoot 30P and edit it in a 60i timeline ( at least in Final Cut Pro ) This gives you a progressive shooting format but an interlaced delivery format.
 
Odd. I know people that have had no problems with alternate HD cameras on Canadian networks.

Usually you budget in camera rentals so you usually rent what is needed though. As a cost cutting measure or ergonomic issues, I could see using hand held pro cameras for reality . If properly set up most people can't tell the diff from one brand/codec to another any way.

I think it really depends on what you are shooting. I mean I've seen national news/sports being covered with a multitude of hand held pannys and sonys lately.

It is always Best to find out before hand though.
 
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I know for a fact that PBS wants 1080i60. Having recently worked on a documentary where I was the latest cameraman promoted to DP in the middle of their production, then to technical adviser, and post-production supervisor (helping the editor who was very good at editorial but knew nothing on the technical side), the project was at times a nightmare of mixing standard-def, 720p24, 720p30, and 1080p30 because the director was advised with conflicting information regarding shooting formats. Believe me, it was hell to conform it all to 1080i60 and pray that sync wasn't lost, and occasionally adjust sync by a few frames or reconform in ProTools.

The whole point of this rant is you will do yourself a tremendous favor if you research the types of TV stations you wish to submit your pilot to and shoot in the format that they want. Knowing what I know now, anything I shoot with PBS in mind will be at 1080i60 to make post-life drastically easier. this is my 2cents.
 
Denwa said:
Odd. I know people that have had no problems with alternate HD cameras on Canadian networks.

Usually you budget in camera rentals so you usually rent what is needed though. As a cost cutting measure or ergonomic issues, I could see using hand held pro cameras for reality . If properly set up most people can't tell the diff from one brand/codec to another any way.

I think it really depends on what you are shooting. I mean I've seen national news/sports being covered with a multitude of hand held pannys and sonys lately.

It is always Best to find out before hand though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, networks like to cut their own costs by shooting with lower budget cameras for their own use (news and sports). The cameras that some broadcasters in Vancouver use for news aren't on the same broadcaster's approved camera list.

With good shooting habits and colour correction, inexpensive cameras like the 150 are awesome. But when you are entering into a contract with a network, you have to play by their rules.
 
Thanks for all of the advice and feedback, everyone.

Unfortunately I will not be able to shoot on the HMC. It seems that the majority of the broadcasters we'll be pitching to require technical specs that exceed what the HMC can produce. It's too bad, as I love working with this camera and it really does produce great images. Hopefully we can use it as a b-roll camera at least!
 
Scratch That! looks like we WILL be using the HMC as I've been advised by our distributor that it's acceptable for the pilot.

Any HMC shooters in Toronto? Send me a private message with your info please!
 
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