Sharpness Setting - Your Opinion

R

rychoi

Member
It seems that everyone is advocating placing sharpness as LOW as possible. I know that still photographers generally implement sharpening in post, but what about videographers and filmmakers? Comparing my default 7D settings to my now adjusted lowest sharpness gives me drastically softer images. Am I missing a process in post for further sharpening?

I would just like to hear some opinions for or against high or low sharpness settings. Or a reason as to why sharpness being set to lowest is a more viable option.
 
it just comes down to the fact that the 7D produces some pretty ugly aliasing when sharpness is applied in camera. So you are best off not adding any digital sharpening in camera, recording the image, and then in post adding some sharpening without increasing aliasing.
 
I turn the sharpness as low as it goes because the default radii used by cameras are way too high. They give you these thick double edges.

Unsharp Mask in post is the way to go.
 
I often wondered if Hollywood movies sharpen their images in post production. I know that 35mm film is inherently more detailed than digital but I also understand that, depending on the way it’s telecined, quality is often lost in the process.
 
I'm not convinced that "0" sharpness is actually a lack of extra sharpening. Images come out drastically more detailed with the sharpness set to a couple notches above 0. I am testing this right now, but from all accounts it appears that the 7D has a much stronger AA filter than the 5d for instance. So images, both still and video, come across as WAY softer with the sharpness set to 0 than they do with the 5d.
 
I'm with Shoqman. I was initially putting my sharpness at 0 like my 5d but the image I get from the 5d at 0 sharpness is similar to the image I get at about 3 sharpness on the 7d. I will say, however, there is slightly more aliasing with my 7d at 3 than my 5d at 0. Not terribly more aliasing, but sometimes noticeable.
 
Ian-T said:
I often wondered if Hollywood movies sharpen their images in post production. I know that 35mm film is inherently more detailed than digital but I also understand that, depending on the way it’s telecined, quality is often lost in the process.
Click to expand...

Yep, sharpening is often applied during telecine. What we see on Blu-Rays most definitely have ample amounts of sharpening applied.

I set my 7D's sharpness to the lowest possible setting. Yes, it'll look painfully soft, but adding sharpening in post looks way more natural to me than using even the slightest bit of in-camera sharpening.
 
I use 1-3 depending on the detail in the shot. I don't recommend 0 because the sharpening algorithm has a 14 bit RAW feed it can use. It will have way more detail to work off of than the image that has been compressed into h.264 so it has a much better shot of increasing fine detail.
 
mhood said:
What Unsharp Mask settings do you use?
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This is for a 5D with no in-camera sharpening. Others mentioned that the 7D differs, so keep that in mind.

The Photoshop settings are:
Amount 92%
Radius 0.6 pixels
Threshold 0

I compared various settings in Sony Vegas, and the Vegas settings I now use are:
Amount 0.660
Radius 0.001 (this is as low as it goes)
Threshold 0.000

The difference is substantial, without adding sharpening artifacts. I can post some comparisons later.
 
kenn michael said:
Yep, sharpening is often applied during telecine. What we see on Blu-Rays most definitely have ample amounts of sharpening applied.
Click to expand...
Ahh...that's what I thought. I know film is film but a lot of theatrical films that I sample seem to be sharpened.....even over the top sometimes. It confused the heck out of me because I've always been told sharpening is evil. But what it seems like folks have been saying is "in-camera" sharpening is evil.

johnhafner said:
I use 1-3 depending on the detail in the shot. I don't recommend 0 because the sharpening algorithm has a 14 bit RAW feed it can use. It will have way more detail to work off of than the image that has been compressed into h.264 so it has a much better shot of increasing fine detail.
Click to expand...
This makes sense...that 0 sharpening on the 5D is different from 0 sharpening on the 7D. I also think there is a different (higher) amount of noise reduction going on in the 7D.
 
johnhafner said:
I use 1-3 depending on the detail in the shot. I don't recommend 0 because the sharpening algorithm has a 14 bit RAW feed it can use. It will have way more detail to work off of than the image that has been compressed into h.264 so it has a much better shot of increasing fine detail.
Click to expand...

Good point. On the other hand in-camera sharpening in presence of noise can put much more load on its codec. Smoothing it by turning the sharpness down and applying unsharp mask in post can actually be better strategy.
 
" it just comes down to the fact that the 7D produces some pretty ugly aliasing when sharpness is applied in camera."

Unfortunately, regardless of sharpening applied in or out of camera....there is no way to reduce the aliasing. Also, using a bit of sharpening and noise reduction in camera IS generally a good idea in my testing, thus far.
I agree completely...0 or 1 on my 5d looks like 2-3 on my 7d. 0 is WAY too soft for 7d and +2 does not add any considerable or "Extra" aliasing to the shot.

I, too use Unsharp Mask in post....but I don't consider NR or in camera sharpening to be evil. I think it's just "young." Even digital photography at these resolutions is still in it's infancy....compared with how long we had to improve film. That's why I feel the 7d's sharpening AND noise reduction is better "in camera" than the 5d2 (newer generation). Where the 5d2 does benefit a bit more at 0 or 1 in camera and doing most of your sharpening in post....the 7d's internals have been improved.

Hopefully, with faster procs and newer technology, that trend will continue. And aliasing will find it's way out the door.

J
 
I've had my sharpening settings at 0 since I got the 7D a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit disappointed at the lack of sharpness in my video. Some was bad focus because of lack of focus aids on the camera, etc. Some was that the depth of field was too shallow, and some was that I was pushing my lenses to areas where they just weren't that sharp.

I also didn't think the stills were as sharp as they should be.

After reading this thread today I tried some shots with the sharpness at +3, just for the heck of it. When reviewing the footage, for the most part I liked it a lot better. I did notice slightly more 'twittering' with some images shot with my L lens, but with the standard lens, I didn't see that. Overall, I like the images. I may not want to do +3 all the time or under all conditions, but now I feel like the 7D is "HD" and not just "really good SD."

Just FYI, I had the same concerns with my Sony EX1 a year and a half ago. Many of the authorities said to keep the sharpness way down or even 'negative.' I was disappointed for months and then decided to turn it up a bit, and liked it better. This led to some me and others to partake of a forum discussion of what some people have said on this thread, which is that pre-compressed sharpening, in camera, can more effective than sharpening later. The theory is that if detail is lost because it wasn't sharp to begin with, than post-compressed sharpening will not have as much detail to work with. Real detail is just lost, and you'll wind up sharpening compression artifacts and noise as well as your desired content.

I'm still going to try some post sharpening, but if I can get some of it in the camera without destroying the image, I'd rather start there.

Anyway, thanks for this thread and inspiring me to turn the sharpening up. I like my camera a lot more tonight.
 
Here's a quick shot I recorded yesterday. Watch it on full screen.

http://vimeo.com/7642280

The sharpness on the 7D was on 2. Notice the aliasing on the yellowish building all the way to the left and on the grill of the truck that passes.
 
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