FAQ Sharing lenses between FS7 and GH5: seeking advise
- Thread starter moldcad
- Start date
Wow!
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
I know as an upstanding citizen of the internet and local section mod, I should just let this go. But allow me a moment of weakness.
If his goal was HDR and as much lattitude as possible, I'd push for a Black Magic or similar camera that records RAW. My suggestions weren't that the A7s are the best for color grading, but only that he could get something "good enough" to intercut as a B cam that offered a similar workflow and compatibility with his main cam. That's all. And to that end, I fail to see how you could argue my suggestion in the slightest.
Perhaps this was made more clear in other threads/forums, but this thread alone it appears (at least to me) that he has been discussing only what would cut/edit well alongside his FS7. To that end, he tried an A7 recording internally and found that it fell apart when grading. I'm suggesting that the same footage recorded to an external with its 4:2:2 color space and far superior codec might already solve that issue he found with the internally recorded files.
If his goal was HDR and as much lattitude as possible, I'd push for a Black Magic or similar camera that records RAW. My suggestions weren't that the A7s are the best for color grading, but only that he could get something "good enough" to intercut as a B cam that offered a similar workflow and compatibility with his main cam. That's all. And to that end, I fail to see how you could argue my suggestion in the slightest.
That's largely a matter of opinion, and why I suggested he try it. He even tried the FS7 with the external recorder and saw a huge difference. XAVC is not the best codec for holding color information, it is just really efficient and convenient for an internal codec writing to limited storage media. You'll always get a better image sending out to an external. And what I'm saying is that once you are getting a 4:2:2 in a more robust codec, the difference between 8 and 10 bit makes far less real-world difference. I'm not saying it doesn't make any difference- it sure does- but not enough that I think you couldn't get by and have the pros of matching systems outweigh the cons IMO.
::looks at the topic:: Sigh. That's the perspective we were talking about all along.
Ummmm... they have speedboosters for the MFT. That isn't new. And they won't work with FS7 lenses because E-mount is already mirrorless. Look up what Speedboosters do and you'll understand why that doesn't makes sense. The flange distance and electronic contacts between the two leading mirrorless mounts make them more-or-less impossible to adapt to each other. And unless there is the flange distance for a focal reducer and you are starting with a larger image circle (such as adapting a FF Canon EOS lens), the physical requirements that make such an adapter possible are non existent. The whole purpose of this discussion is that the OP wanted to invest in having at least 1 native lens for the mount for additional capabilities (AF, etc). So this wouldn't be a good suggestion at any angle.
Sony recorders?! What Sony recorders are you even referring to? I'm talking about bypassing the camera's codec by recording external- with any recorder that uses a decent codec. Atomos is pretty much still the standard. I'm getting the impression that you are mixing different conversations together and perhaps we aren't on the same page. :/
moldcad
Veteran
Baking up this old thread of mine, as the GH5 has been out for several weeks now so I guess some of you guys have some experience with grading its V-log footage already....
I'm still debating whether I should take the GH5 route (mainly for its 4K@50p, 10bit 4:2:2 capabilities), or Sony's A7 (R or S) ii. Yeah, yeah - I know: those who want to laugh at my dilemma and post biting comments again, please feel free to do so - but by me and the community of videographers facing similar decisions, a more constructive approach would be more appreciated; thank you
- and let me recap:
I was hoping the long awaited A9 would bring everything I like in the Sony cams (Full Frame sensor, ability to share with my FS7: lenses and other hardware as well as the color science, plus S-log3 I got so used to in my HDR grading) AND what's so tempting in the GH5 (10bit 422 mainly) - alas the A9 turns out to be all but video-centric beast...
But with A9 arrival, both A7Sii and A7Rii prices dropped, so I'm again trying to make up my mind:
- A7Rii would be great as a stills camera; my FF native E-mount 28-135mm lens would get a new life with it, it also can record 4K video in S35 crop mode so my Canon zooms could work as well, using Metabones Speed Booster I already have; but: even recording externally with my Shogun Inferno, I'd only be getting 8bit 4:2:2. And in the case of A7Rii, the S-log choice is limited to S-Log2 only - while for HDR it's S-log3 which is most beneficial - meaning that if I went the Sony route, it'd have to be A7Sii which does offer S-log3 as well (but I couldn't use my Canon glass Speed-Boosted as it doesn't have S35 mode, plus it's not so great for stills)
- GH5 would require purchase of some native glass and a new Speed Booster for using my Canon glass
So please advise, those of you who have already graded GH5 footage: is V-log from this marvelous camera easily matched with Sony's S-log3? Any other suggestions re: my dilemma? I'm all ears, TIA
Piotr
I'm still debating whether I should take the GH5 route (mainly for its 4K@50p, 10bit 4:2:2 capabilities), or Sony's A7 (R or S) ii. Yeah, yeah - I know: those who want to laugh at my dilemma and post biting comments again, please feel free to do so - but by me and the community of videographers facing similar decisions, a more constructive approach would be more appreciated; thank you
- and let me recap:I was hoping the long awaited A9 would bring everything I like in the Sony cams (Full Frame sensor, ability to share with my FS7: lenses and other hardware as well as the color science, plus S-log3 I got so used to in my HDR grading) AND what's so tempting in the GH5 (10bit 422 mainly) - alas the A9 turns out to be all but video-centric beast...
But with A9 arrival, both A7Sii and A7Rii prices dropped, so I'm again trying to make up my mind:
- A7Rii would be great as a stills camera; my FF native E-mount 28-135mm lens would get a new life with it, it also can record 4K video in S35 crop mode so my Canon zooms could work as well, using Metabones Speed Booster I already have; but: even recording externally with my Shogun Inferno, I'd only be getting 8bit 4:2:2. And in the case of A7Rii, the S-log choice is limited to S-Log2 only - while for HDR it's S-log3 which is most beneficial - meaning that if I went the Sony route, it'd have to be A7Sii which does offer S-log3 as well (but I couldn't use my Canon glass Speed-Boosted as it doesn't have S35 mode, plus it's not so great for stills)
- GH5 would require purchase of some native glass and a new Speed Booster for using my Canon glass
So please advise, those of you who have already graded GH5 footage: is V-log from this marvelous camera easily matched with Sony's S-log3? Any other suggestions re: my dilemma? I'm all ears, TIA
Piotr
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To get 4K50P from the GH5 you would also need to get an external recorder like the Inferno as internal recording of 4K 50/60P is 8bit 4:2:0. External with internal recording is 8bit 4:2:2 and external recording without internal recording is 10bit 4:2:2 . If you want 10 bit 4:2:2 in 4K50P I do not think you have an alternative to the GH5 in that size or price range. You would need to go to the FS7 or Ursa Mini to get the bit depth and frame rate in UHD that you are looking for. Most of the GH5 competition top out at UHD 25P or 30P and lots are just 8bit ( GH5 at this frame rate is 10 bit 4:2:2 internal ) .
If you want a camera that does multiple frame rates and resolutions with internal recording to dual card slots with no time limit and doesn't overheat, XLR unit that can record audio at 96Khz 24bit, has a very good WiFi app for remote control of almost everything you can do at the camera then you have one choice...GH5. 4K 50/60P excludes almost all other choices which is why I bought a GH5. I have the new version of the 12-60mm f2.8 to f4 lens and the XLR unit. Since all my shoots will be on a tripod I also got the Atomos Power Station to power it for the long shoots as a better alternative for me than the battery grip.
If you want a camera that does multiple frame rates and resolutions with internal recording to dual card slots with no time limit and doesn't overheat, XLR unit that can record audio at 96Khz 24bit, has a very good WiFi app for remote control of almost everything you can do at the camera then you have one choice...GH5. 4K 50/60P excludes almost all other choices which is why I bought a GH5. I have the new version of the 12-60mm f2.8 to f4 lens and the XLR unit. Since all my shoots will be on a tripod I also got the Atomos Power Station to power it for the long shoots as a better alternative for me than the battery grip.
Hi Piotr, I have the GH5 with V-Log-L option, and it matches up with S-Log3 from my F55 just fine. The 10 bit 4:2:2 has minimal banding with HDR on par with XAVC and S-Log3. Although I do prefer the HDR look of S-Log-3 by a small margin compared to S-Log2, the latter also works very well in HDR in my opinion, in some ways a little bit better in the highlights but still mostly comparable overall.
V-Log-L seems to have manageable color science that's grade friendly, accurate colors, so yes does match well with S-Log3. The default noise reduction setting of the GH5 is a little too aggressive, I reduce it fully to -5 at which point you would have to be mindful of noise in the low key/shadows a little more than your FS7, not by a large amount, but you can play with the NR yourself, it's good.
I would say this, the GH5 with V-Log-L 10 bit 4:2:2 will match much better with your FS7 than 8 bit 4:2:0 from either the A7SII, A7RII or A6500/A6300. The only downside to the GH5 10 bit is NLE compatibility. I transcode it to prores to use with Resolve Studio. YMMV.
The value of the GH5 to me is versatility, to go anywhere without attracting lots of attention, good handling, solid build, weather tight, easy walkabout travel cam with GREAT stabilization! I have just one lens for it, the well matched general purpose Leica 12-60mm F2.8-4.0. One camera that does it all describes the GH5. Not perfect, but pretty flawless nonetheless. I recommend it.
Best,
Tom
V-Log-L seems to have manageable color science that's grade friendly, accurate colors, so yes does match well with S-Log3. The default noise reduction setting of the GH5 is a little too aggressive, I reduce it fully to -5 at which point you would have to be mindful of noise in the low key/shadows a little more than your FS7, not by a large amount, but you can play with the NR yourself, it's good.
I would say this, the GH5 with V-Log-L 10 bit 4:2:2 will match much better with your FS7 than 8 bit 4:2:0 from either the A7SII, A7RII or A6500/A6300. The only downside to the GH5 10 bit is NLE compatibility. I transcode it to prores to use with Resolve Studio. YMMV.
The value of the GH5 to me is versatility, to go anywhere without attracting lots of attention, good handling, solid build, weather tight, easy walkabout travel cam with GREAT stabilization! I have just one lens for it, the well matched general purpose Leica 12-60mm F2.8-4.0. One camera that does it all describes the GH5. Not perfect, but pretty flawless nonetheless. I recommend it.
Best,
Tom
moldcad
Veteran
Dear Tom,
Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it My dilemma was killing me, and I even started considering further waiting for the A7S/Rii successor, in hope it would bring me the best of both worlds: Full Frame, lens compatibility with my FS7 AND 4K@50p 10bit 422 with S-log3. But who knows how long I'd have to wait for such a beast - especially if Sony's strategy is to keep their stills cameras limited in the video department to UHD@30p, 8bit max, in order to not cannibalize their own camcorders like the FS5 or X70...
So it's a great news the GH5 with V-Log does indeed match FS7's Slog2/3 well, and grades well in Resolve (BTW, all GH5 formats now open in Resolve Beta 14, so this problem has been resolved as well - pun unintended)...
Tom - could you please tell me some more about the overall PQ from GH5 (real-world low light performance, S/N etc.)? If this is also satisfactory in your unbiased opinion which I regard so highly, I guess I'll finally have the answer to my dilemma (even though Full Frame will still be something I'd be giving up with some regret - but one cannot have it all, right?).
And finally, a couple more questions:
- when inter-cutting S-log3 with V-log, which is you preferred normalization method: RCM or ACEScc?
- regarding lenses, which do you think would be the best approach (given that I have the 16-35mm and 24-70mm F4.0L IS Canon lenses):
a) Use the Canon on Speed Booster XL (0.64x) at the wide end, and buy the native Pana 35-100mm F2.8 mk2 for longer telephoto use?
b) buy the native 12-35 F2.8 mk2 lens for the wide end, and use my Canons with non-boosting EF->MFT adapter for tele?
Thanks so much
Piotr
Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it
My dilemma was killing me, and I even started considering further waiting for the A7S/Rii successor, in hope it would bring me the best of both worlds: Full Frame, lens compatibility with my FS7 AND 4K@50p 10bit 422 with S-log3. But who knows how long I'd have to wait for such a beast - especially if Sony's strategy is to keep their stills cameras limited in the video department to UHD@30p, 8bit max, in order to not cannibalize their own camcorders like the FS5 or X70...So it's a great news the GH5 with V-Log does indeed match FS7's Slog2/3 well, and grades well in Resolve (BTW, all GH5 formats now open in Resolve Beta 14, so this problem has been resolved as well - pun unintended
)...Tom - could you please tell me some more about the overall PQ from GH5 (real-world low light performance, S/N etc.)? If this is also satisfactory in your unbiased opinion which I regard so highly, I guess I'll finally have the answer to my dilemma (even though Full Frame will still be something I'd be giving up with some regret - but one cannot have it all, right?).
And finally, a couple more questions:
- when inter-cutting S-log3 with V-log, which is you preferred normalization method: RCM or ACEScc?
- regarding lenses, which do you think would be the best approach (given that I have the 16-35mm and 24-70mm F4.0L IS Canon lenses):
a) Use the Canon on Speed Booster XL (0.64x) at the wide end, and buy the native Pana 35-100mm F2.8 mk2 for longer telephoto use?
b) buy the native 12-35 F2.8 mk2 lens for the wide end, and use my Canons with non-boosting EF->MFT adapter for tele?
Thanks so much
Piotr
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Glad to oblige Friend!
As for real world low light performance and S/N, it's well done. The noise reduction in particular is very effective but can have the consequence of crushing low key detail. As you reduce the NR, it starts recovering detail but then you also see some noise. It starts out looking cleaner than my F55 but as you study the image it's also losing some detail. Because the F55 only has Low-Med-High NR settings, the GH5 which has 10 steps from -5 to +5 is more tuneable. I'm not going to say it's better, it's probably not as good. The Sony just prioritizes delivering all the detail and by extension, sensor noise as well, the GH5 NR is more...I was going to say aggressive, but that's not the word, it just filters more strongly and thus looks cleaner which in most cases I think is preferable, but if you do dial it back to -5 it becomes more noisy than the F55 by a fair margin. Somewhere between those extremes I'm sure you would find a satisfactory compromise. The sensitivity seems very good but it's not going to turn night into day like the A7SII. In other words, it's a case of; if not the very best (A7SII), still quite good enough, in a relaxed easy way. It doesn't struggle in low light. Between the sensitivity and NR, it's less effort to grade the low light footage than the F55 which as a cinema cam is expecting controlled stage lighting conditions in most cases. I would expect the same for your FS7. Sony cinema cams are capable low light performers, (or any light for that matter), but by default they leave the noise in the image for you to decide what to do with it, with the understanding you may want to preserve the maximal detail. I don't argue with the GH5 for this reason, in most cases it's probably faster to arrive at a reasonable low light GH5 image because of the strength and tunability of the NR.
As for full frame, well there is nothing to say. You have to make peace with yourself on that. One final point about matching with SLog3, I actually experimented using some SLog3 luts and ACES IDT and they worked just fine. Resolve does have its own transforms for V-Log (or V35) which is more directly the one to use, but it's not that far off from SLog3 in any case.
As a friend, the only personal advice/opinion I would steer your way, is allow yourself at least one of the new matching Leica lenses that supports the Dual-2 IBIS and optical stabilization. They are fast, silent, compact and optically very good. It's so nice to not be straining your back holding up a heavy bottle of glass when the GH5 has such good manageable size and ergos. You also need an extra battery and 0.9 (3x) ND in your kit.
As for real world low light performance and S/N, it's well done. The noise reduction in particular is very effective but can have the consequence of crushing low key detail. As you reduce the NR, it starts recovering detail but then you also see some noise. It starts out looking cleaner than my F55 but as you study the image it's also losing some detail. Because the F55 only has Low-Med-High NR settings, the GH5 which has 10 steps from -5 to +5 is more tuneable. I'm not going to say it's better, it's probably not as good. The Sony just prioritizes delivering all the detail and by extension, sensor noise as well, the GH5 NR is more...I was going to say aggressive, but that's not the word, it just filters more strongly and thus looks cleaner which in most cases I think is preferable, but if you do dial it back to -5 it becomes more noisy than the F55 by a fair margin. Somewhere between those extremes I'm sure you would find a satisfactory compromise. The sensitivity seems very good but it's not going to turn night into day like the A7SII. In other words, it's a case of; if not the very best (A7SII), still quite good enough, in a relaxed easy way. It doesn't struggle in low light. Between the sensitivity and NR, it's less effort to grade the low light footage than the F55 which as a cinema cam is expecting controlled stage lighting conditions in most cases. I would expect the same for your FS7. Sony cinema cams are capable low light performers, (or any light for that matter), but by default they leave the noise in the image for you to decide what to do with it, with the understanding you may want to preserve the maximal detail. I don't argue with the GH5 for this reason, in most cases it's probably faster to arrive at a reasonable low light GH5 image because of the strength and tunability of the NR.
As for full frame, well there is nothing to say. You have to make peace with yourself on that. One final point about matching with SLog3, I actually experimented using some SLog3 luts and ACES IDT and they worked just fine. Resolve does have its own transforms for V-Log (or V35) which is more directly the one to use, but it's not that far off from SLog3 in any case.
As a friend, the only personal advice/opinion I would steer your way, is allow yourself at least one of the new matching Leica lenses that supports the Dual-2 IBIS and optical stabilization. They are fast, silent, compact and optically very good. It's so nice to not be straining your back holding up a heavy bottle of glass when the GH5 has such good manageable size and ergos. You also need an extra battery and 0.9 (3x) ND in your kit.
DaVinci ACES 1.02. Yes I know it is not supported in V14, but 14 is crashing my PC, probably time to upgrade, so for now V12.5.2. But from what I saw in V14, ACEScc looked the same. I don't think this matters. Use RCM if you prefer. I've just been using ACES longer and know what to expect.
I really like the Leica branded Panasonic 12-60mm F2.8-4.0. I have those same Canon L lenses, they are full frame, size and weight, the one Leica I mentioned replaces the two wider Canons. Your back will thank you.
I really like the Leica branded Panasonic 12-60mm F2.8-4.0. I have those same Canon L lenses, they are full frame, size and weight, the one Leica I mentioned replaces the two wider Canons. Your back will thank you.
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
Moldcad, can you please just rent/borrow/buy&return/etc already?
We've all got our opinions as to what will work best for you, and like I said before, since you already own and use Sony gear I don't see a compelling reason to own and maintain two incompatible lens systems if the sii with external recording would work for you.
Now, most of us don't own both units so as the guy trying to decide, I'd love for you to test and show up your conclusion!
We've all got our opinions as to what will work best for you, and like I said before, since you already own and use Sony gear I don't see a compelling reason to own and maintain two incompatible lens systems if the sii with external recording would work for you.
Now, most of us don't own both units so as the guy trying to decide, I'd love for you to test and show up your conclusion!
moldcad
Veteran
Not being able to give up some features that GH5 has, and others (equally important) which only the FF A7 can offer - I'm probably going with.. BOTH! Here is my plan, and rationale behind it:
- A7Sii strictly for low-light and FF DOF (although with no ability to run my Canon lenses Speed-Boosted, as it is FF only for 4K video), with 12 stop DR and S-log3 that A7Rii is lacking; no need for buying any lenses
- GH5 for anything else, with its 10bit V-log characteristics very similar to with S-log3 (which A7Rii is lacking, which is yet another reason for goin with A7Sii and not A7Rii). I'll be sing my Canon lenses with Speed Booster, and only one native 35-100mm lens for telephoto, where the new IBIS will shine and be most needed.
The only think I'd be losing with this scenarion is the A7Rii as a great, 42 MP stills camera - but otherwise I'll be golden. What do you think of such a solution, Mr. @M.Gilden, Sir?
Piotr
PS. Or perhaps I should go for GH5 and A7Rii, not S? If you think so, please say why (apart from the obvious fact that A7Rii makes excellent stills camera, with its 42MP)....
- A7Sii strictly for low-light and FF DOF (although with no ability to run my Canon lenses Speed-Boosted, as it is FF only for 4K video), with 12 stop DR and S-log3 that A7Rii is lacking; no need for buying any lenses
- GH5 for anything else, with its 10bit V-log characteristics very similar to with S-log3 (which A7Rii is lacking, which is yet another reason for goin with A7Sii and not A7Rii). I'll be sing my Canon lenses with Speed Booster, and only one native 35-100mm lens for telephoto, where the new IBIS will shine and be most needed.
The only think I'd be losing with this scenarion is the A7Rii as a great, 42 MP stills camera - but otherwise I'll be golden. What do you think of such a solution, Mr. @M.Gilden, Sir?
Piotr
PS. Or perhaps I should go for GH5 and A7Rii, not S? If you think so, please say why (apart from the obvious fact that A7Rii makes excellent stills camera, with its 42MP)....
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M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
Sounds about right, only thing missing is that the A7Rii has a far superior AF system. The S is limited to contrast only focus, which aside from not being as fast, can't really drive AF on adapted lenses from Canon, for example. This is mostly only relevant for stills, however.
If not of that matters to you, I'd say your plan is on the money.
If not of that matters to you, I'd say your plan is on the money.
First of all I would ask what do you mainly shoot? Don't get caught up with marketing!! I rarely see someone that REALLY needs two cameras that shoot 10 bit. Most of the time you can easily get away with one (unless you really do some super heavy grading). I've been on the shoots where FS7, 5D3, FS700, a57 (yep), EX1 was mixed and after some minor grading you really couldn't tell them apart. That one camera was setting the mood and rest boil down to matching framing with certain camera, different depth of field is much more noticeable that anything else. Have a look at Wonderlist that PB shot. We was heavily using Sony mirrorless cameras. As someone mentioned before I would go with a6500 or a7RII. You will get exactly same depth of field on both FS7 and your chosen mirrorless and you'll save yourself even that little bit of time in matching them. You can also use same lenses, you really will just need that extra body. Forget about slog3 on a7sII. It was tested that it's really pushing that 8 bit to far and you will very quickly see banding. It's up to you but I think GH5 is a little bit waste of money in your situation.
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One more thing. I had GH4 two years ago while having FS700 too at that time. Many people say that sony color science is crap but MAN, that was GH4 that gave me nightmares!! I couldn't stand it - people were always coming out orange like monkeys or dead like wood. Sold it after few months. YMMV
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One more thing. I had GH4 two years ago while having FS700 too at that time. Many people say that sony color science is crap but MAN, that was GH4 that gave me nightmares!! I couldn't stand it - people were always coming out orange like monkeys or dead like wood. Sold it after few months. YMMV
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moldcad
Veteran
moldcad
Veteran
Interesting, because I tried my Canon EF lenses on Speed Booster in one of the modes (can't remember now which - Green or Advanced) that allows switching between using Contrast AF / Phase Detect AF on A7Rii - and it worked just fine with both... And o wonder, as in an e-mail from Metabones Support I was informed Speed Booster cannot use PDAF in video mode at all...
Piotr
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moldcad
Veteran
Hi again in my epic thread, Guys
So the situation now is following: I've bought the A7Rii and like it a lot; but - not being able to film deep blue sky w/o heavy banding - am also buying the GH5 for its 10 bits. However - and here's where I need your advise - although I cannot return the A7Rii, I still can swap it for the A7Sii. Just please tell me: if you were in my shoes, given that I will anyway have the 10bit 4:2:2 GH5 as my FS7's "versatile companion" for HDR10-graded production, would you keep the A7Rii for its 42MP stills, or swap it for the A7Sii with its noctovisor-like sensitivity (plus S-log3)?
The A7Rii is certainly a more versatile camera than the A7Sii - but I'll have enough versatility with GH5...
Cheers
Piotr
PS. Is it true that 8-bit inherent banding on A7 series is even more severe with S-log3 that S-log2 (source: https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-a7s-ii-vs-a7r-ii-test-which-one/)? If so - why? This would be another argument to keep the A7R, which - according to this source- is only slightly worse in low light (when using its S35mm crop mode)...And the A7Rii ability to take either APS-C or FF lenses is phenomenal, too!
So the situation now is following: I've bought the A7Rii and like it a lot; but - not being able to film deep blue sky w/o heavy banding - am also buying the GH5 for its 10 bits. However - and here's where I need your advise - although I cannot return the A7Rii, I still can swap it for the A7Sii. Just please tell me: if you were in my shoes, given that I will anyway have the 10bit 4:2:2 GH5 as my FS7's "versatile companion" for HDR10-graded production, would you keep the A7Rii for its 42MP stills, or swap it for the A7Sii with its noctovisor-like sensitivity (plus S-log3)?
The A7Rii is certainly a more versatile camera than the A7Sii - but I'll have enough versatility with GH5...
Cheers
Piotr
PS. Is it true that 8-bit inherent banding on A7 series is even more severe with S-log3 that S-log2 (source: https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-a7s-ii-vs-a7r-ii-test-which-one/)? If so - why? This would be another argument to keep the A7R, which - according to this source- is only slightly worse in low light (when using its S35mm crop mode)...And the A7Rii ability to take either APS-C or FF lenses is phenomenal, too!
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M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
Interesting. I know the regular Metabones adapter (non-speedbooster) works in both modes, because its a function of the camera and not the adapter. See, the adapter at least in metabones' case, is just emulating a LA-EA3 adapter, which originally only supported CDAF until the A7Rii dropped and offered on sensor PDAF for adapted lenses. Then the Commlite. Metabones, and most others started sporting PDAF and CDAF. But the adapter's official stance might be that it doesn't work still, even if it does. Or perhaps the speedboosting glass makes a difference? I don't know, that far I haven't gone. Sold my speedboosters when I left M43, although I've been itching to try them with my Sony, I haven't had much reason to invest in another one.
Hi again in my epic thread, Guys
So the situation now is following: I've bought the A7Rii and like it a lot; but - not being able to film deep blue sky w/o heavy banding - am also buying the GH5 for its 10 bits. However - and here's where I need your advise - although I cannot return the A7Rii, I still can swap it for the A7Sii. Just please tell me: if you were in my shoes, given that I will anyway have the 10bit 4:2:2 GH5 as my FS7's "versatile companion" for HDR10-graded production, would you keep the A7Rii for its 42MP stills, or swap it for the A7Sii with its noctovisor-like sensitivity (plus S-log3)?
The A7Rii is certainly a more versatile camera than the A7Sii - but I'll have enough versatility with GH5...
Cheers
Piotr
PS. Is it true that 8-bit inherent banding on A7 series is even more severe with S-log3 that S-log2 (source: https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-a7s-ii-vs-a7r-ii-test-which-one/)? If so - why? This would be another argument to keep the A7R, which - according to this source- is only slightly worse in low light (when using its S35mm crop mode)...And the A7Rii ability to take either APS-C or FF lenses is phenomenal, too!
So, are you getting that banding on the external recorder or just with the internal codec?
As for Slog making it worse... yes, if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense that it would. slog is trying to cram more information in an already limited color space. Slog can help preserve highlights and shadows, and things that would normally get clipped and/or lost to the codec by taking a wider range and trying to stuff it in the color available. But, we're still stuck with 8-bit values, which means that the wider the extremes (flatter profile), the less information there will be for levels in-between. You might actually get less banding if shooting less flat, I think. But then you have less latitude for the grade.
moldcad
Veteran
Definitely both!
Clear explanation, thanks. And the practice follows this theory precisely, too: in any other PP of my A7Rii except S-log2, I'm not seeing banding that could ruin m footage at all, again - either internal, or recorded in 4:2:2 on the Inferno! So my decision has been made at last and for good: I'm keeping the A7Rii but my usage will probably be 75% stills, 25% video (the latter when the shoot is not calling for S-Log anyway, while it would benefit from using my 28-135mm Sony lens in FF mode). For S-log 2-camera gigs it's going to be my FS7 locked up and myself getting those "beauty" B-roll shots with the hand-held GH5 in V-log.
This final decision I made after having tested my new GH5 with the 16-35mm Canon on the FE->MFT 0.64x Speed Booster (BTW, working much better than the FE->E one with my Sony cameras), plus the only native lens I bought along with the GH5 - the 35-100mm F2.8 mk2 (I went that way with the rationale that should the so much hyped GH5's Dual I.S. have problems with SB, I'd better use native lenses for telephoto where good stabilization is most wanted). And it's really great with my native lens, but I must say that even with the SB which indeed doesn't support Dual I.S. fully, with short focal lengths of my 16-35mm Canon is good enough, too.
So, I guess my decision-making saga, spread over this and 2 other threads in the last couple of months (!!!), has finally come to the end; many thanks to those of you guys who treated my (sometimes lame, I know
) questions seriously enough to actually post helpful messages rather that irreverent ones Piotr