Share Your WorkFlow Config Chart

Zephyrnoid · Sep 14, 2009

I'm trying something new on all the forums that I belong to which are Video Editing related. I wonder if members that happen to perform a complete production cycle from shooting to final delivery would share their workflow and toolset in this format:

Camera Type | Record / Capture Format | Storage [To Tape? DTE? Raw Capture?] > Capture to Edit Suite [Capture Codec/format, connection type used] > NLE Type [Platform+ Version of Platform & Software] (NLE Hardware config - Processor + Internal & External Storage Config (including controller cards) | RAID? | Video Card + Monitor Config | Editing Format | Output Compression | Destination Media? [Hot swappable HD? DVD? Blu-Ray? Tape? Other?]

The fun part of this exercise is to avoid using any sentences or phrases. Just the 'pieces' using characters that I've suggested to tie the components of the workflow together.

I could post the same exercise as a Survey on Zoomerang but the template above should be simple enough to follow.

Shane Ross · Sep 14, 2009

Why on earth would we want to share any of this? Much of what I do and choose is based on years of experience and thousands of dollars in research. Many of us get hired because we know what we do...so why would we share that? FOR FREE?!

Lance Bailey · Sep 14, 2009

Shane are you serious? Isn't that what we do here all the time is share what we know and how we do it? If everyone kept their little secrets to themselves, why would this site even exist?

Shane Ross · Sep 14, 2009

TECH SUPPORT. We help people when they are stuck. And I guess a lot of you share your full workflows. I don't, because I get hired for what I know, and what I know how to do. I'm more than willing to help someone out who is stuck at some point, but I don't sit hand-hold people through workflows...unless they are working with me at a company I am employed for.

I know many people getting hired for jobs that they just cannot do, but they think they can because they got the workflow from "online." But then they don't fully understand that workflow, so big issues happen.

I do help with BASIC workflows, like how to get P2 from the card and into the system. And I understand a community of RED users getting together to figure out just what the heck to do with this new format. But END TO END, START TO FINISH workflows...nuh uh. Job security.

Lance Bailey · Sep 14, 2009

Believe me, I understand that protecting your job security is important. However, sharing workflows is EXACTLY what people do here.

In the end, it comes down to TALENT, COST, CONNECTIONS/PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS that are going to keep people working.

Technical knowledge and equipment are way too easy to come by in todays world. The cream will always rise to the top.

And I know that you are one of the best at what you do. If you don't want to share, so be it?

Shane Ross · Sep 14, 2009

True...I could have just said nothing and that would have been it.

Mattykins · Sep 14, 2009

I kinda agree with Shane here.

I don't think we at DVXuser share every secret we have. We get into some specifics, but rarely ever a full tutorial or a full disclaimer of everything we did.

I think it's apart of the system we are apart of. Everyone ends up making advancements somewhere, but they want to keep those secrets to themselves. Not only for job security, but because they are doing something different that others aren't doing.

If that makes any sense. Workflow takes trial and error. Sometimes you figure something out after catastrophic failure. It's that knowledge that has to be earned.

I mean, if you want to share your workflow, go ahead. But I can see why others [myself included] wouldn't want to divulge every intimate detail.

Shane Ross · Sep 14, 2009

THank you. Yeah, I am all for sharing small pieces of workflow here and there. I was VERY open to showing people how to work with P2 because I was one of the first to do so. But END TO END, that is too much.

Alex H. · Sep 14, 2009

Mattykins said:
I kinda agree with Shane here.

I'll second that.

Every editor has his own bag of tricks, and that's important. If everyone had that bag of tricks, there'd really be no bag of tricks.

Even in the audio forum (my primary production life has been in audio) I'm willing to chip in on tech support, but I will not disclose most of my personal craft. For instance, there are many ways to bury a lav mic... I'll gladly give a step-by-step tutorial on a commonly-known technique (such as using the knot in a necktie), but I have figured out a few ways to do this that aren't widely-known. If I give those up, I lose my competitive edge.

Cools · Sep 14, 2009

Well, I don't think the OP is asking for you to list your every single trick.

Beyond that, I don't think posting workflows is all that useful anyway. Requirements and objectives change and no single workflow will fit every situation, let alone be useful for someone else even if they have the same equipment. There's more to it than just a list of specs.

Zephyrnoid · Sep 15, 2009

Interesting response from Shane Ross!

A little bird always asks me to be wary of protests from ones that have a vested interest in NOT sharing, as this helpful 'review' on behalf of CalDigit might suggest.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/caldigit_hdpro.php
Indeed, CalDigit is starting look like the Mob what with the numerous people it has on it's payroll, not to mention their uncanny ability to silence the authors of "DIY RAID SOLUTIONS FOR LE$$" article authors.

In his defense, I do appreciate and respect Shane's POV on the matter of trade secrets (which like patentable processes) should be preserved as private IP. Sure, I come from a still photo background and have about 20 years of experience in that business and though I retired from it 10 years ago, I still shoot. Moreover, I'm DELIGHTED to share smart advice with neophytes, as do my expert video counterparts on Creative Cow, FCPUG and 2-pop. Now as someone else pointed out, if the skeleton of your work-flow (an exercise I'm using to compile a sense of how different practitioners accomplish specific results and not merely to divine Shane Ross' trade secrets) is the heart and soul of your business- please! Don't participate in the exercise!

Furthermore, I'm less likely to be interested in knowing how the work-flow of one who depends on HIS special brew magic work-flow to differentiate himself from others, than I am in work-flows for specific media delivery, or ones that leverage a cocktail of CODECs or ones that run on laptops versus desktops- that's the kind of differentiation I'm talking about- not the grand Wizard(of Oz) 's magical potions of electronic connectivity and process. Shane is entitled to keep that to himself.

A work-flow is NOT really a trade secret since implied in a combination of any off the shelf hardware and software is in fact a Work Flow or Process available to anyone that can collar an intelligent Trade Show presenter into a Q&A. If it were trade secret then the legions of hardware and software developers that depend their customers achieving results from using their products would be starving about now. Or worse yet, they'd be selling a lot of unnecessary hardware to unsuspecting customers.

No! I'm interested in two things:
1- to see if people are capable of condensing what invariably becomes a LONG and drawn out , not to mention convoluted, depiction of workflow- into a concise outline that captures the essense of a particular solution path in a glance. Should I copyright or patent this? After all, as a Human Factors professional by day, I'm doing my job and sharing the benefits of my insights with the whole community.
2- to see if different practitioners with similar goals arrive at those goals using similar or widely varying workflows. This is important as I noticed that of all the encumbrances to goal attainment in video production, an inefficient or counterproductive or confused workflow is the largest hurdle of all.

Mr. Ross exposed himself as somewhat selfish, since, as yet another observer noted, that's the whole point of communities of interest- the sharing. Is Mr Ross suggesting that he has nothing to gain by being a member of this forum? Or that the subject of work-flow sharing is 'sanctum sanctorum' and all other matters of discussion are open to 'sharing'? If so, then what if I, as an expert in lighting, felt that a forum that allowed participants to share lighting solutions diagrammatically- threatening to my 20 years of experience in lighting? Surely that would be silly since the heart and soul of a community of interest is in bringing neophytes up to the point where they can deliver better quality work, thereby elevating the commutative level of quality being generated by all of us.

Look. If I had been paid my hourly consulting rate for every hour of solid experience based advice that I've posted here and elsewhere on the Internet, I assure you that my dream Villa in Portofino would have been in my possession already

I advocate strategic planning and if Shane Ross or any other person in this or other forum, reckons that they're expert enough to keep their Workflow a secret then I challenge them for prize money to respond to a public RFP on the matter. A sort of, get paid for what your secrets are worth.

I'll even finance the contest myself as a seeker in an Innocentive Challenge. That will assuage any fears that I or any other member is looking for free advice.
If your advice or knowledge is worth the prize money, then you'll earn it by meeting the strict requirements for effectiveness.

Or put another way. Who needs piecemeal advice or 'tech support' if the rest of the process is not something that newcomers can learn here?

Shane Ross · Sep 15, 2009

RFP?

And are you accusing me of being PAID for by vendors, like Caldigit? I was not. The Cow paid for that review. I have received more than a few raid solutions to test and review, and I reviewed the ones I liked, and didn't review the ones I didn't like. Because I don't like to bad mouth companies...I just won't recommend them.

I have shared snippets of workflows...

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/aja_kona3.php

and overviews:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/p2fcp6.php
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/making-history-with-panasonic-p2-and-the-hvx200

And yes, I have a DVD on my organization techniques...that I sell for money, as these tips were learned through years of working in broadcast television, and many were things I developed:

http://store.creativecow.net/p/63/getting_organized_in_final_cut_pro

And I have given small pieces of workflows as answers here, and on the Cow, and LAFPCUG, and Apple, and 2-pop. Small helpful hints...things to get people back on track. But never FULL end to end workflows. Again, that is how I make money...the reason people hire me. Because of what I know. That is why EVERYONE is hired, because of their skill levels and knowledge of certain things. If we gave out our "playbook" of how we do things, someone can just put them all in a binder and go out to find work saying "I know how to do this." They don't. But now they are armed with my knowledge and are now able to take work away from me.

If this was someone who I worked with, and who I shared my expertise with, and they gained this experience on the job, and they went out to get work...then that is fine. Because I taught them what to do, and how to do certain things. APPRENTICESHIP. I went through it too. I still firmly think this is the way it needs to be done, and unfortunately it is a dying art. Because there are subtleties in these workflows that aren't put on paper, that a person who knows them, remembers "oh, yeah, that didn't work, but this slight variation did." Stuff like that is important. Like running a play over and over and over.

I didn't mean to cause such a HUGE fuss...well, that's not true, I wanted some fuss to come out of this, due to the nature of the question. I guess I shouldn't have answered. But more and more and more people want to just learn things from the internet and books, and not by actual practical experience. They want to skip being the assistant or the apprentice and jump right to being the master. This is a highly skilled field, that requires a lot of blood, sweat, hard work, and apprenticeship.

IMHO.

(I reviewed AJA products...I was not paid by them for the review. I reviewed Matrox Products...I was not paid by them for the review. I highly recommend DELL monitors, Dell hasn't paid me. Leo Laporte reviews products all the time...no one pays him, no one gives him anything. To do so in return for money or product is unethical. If you are questioning my ethics, then I am responding by telling you I was not paid for by these companies for the reviews, neither with cash nor product. I was paid by the Creative Cow...much like other people are paid by WIRED or MACWORLD.)

Mattykins · Sep 15, 2009

Shane Ross said:
THank you. Yeah, I am all for sharing small pieces of workflow here and there. I was VERY open to showing people how to work with P2 because I was one of the first to do so. But END TO END, that is too much.

I did not know that. I guess I don't hang around the FCP forum enough. That and I only worked with P2 at one job for a month. And I never logged. Very interesting though.

David Saraceno · Sep 15, 2009

I also concur with Shane.

I see a bunch of posts on how to create a DVD "without loosing [sic] quality."

That is part art and part science, and sometimes you don't want to share years of trial and error without someone who doesn't want to do the time.

That's different than asking "how to I transfer footage from the cam to the computer?"

Voytech · Sep 15, 2009

I cannot help but agree with Shane. One cannot expect to get years of experience and hard work on a silver platter just because they want to see how it's done. I'm all for lending a helping hand with troubleshooting or specific questions, but what the OP asked for is way too broad. That's equivalent (in my mind) to asking a car racing team to publish their their suspension setup for everyone to see. It definitely does not work like that.

Shane Ross · Sep 15, 2009

That said, I am more than willing to help out when people are stuck. Too much so at times. Friends accuse me (rightly so) of being addicted to help forums. I mean, I am here, on Apple, Creative Cow, LAFCPUG, the FCP -L...

Zak Forsman · Sep 15, 2009

I'm not sure i get this controversy. My own post house (SCA) and every post house i've freelanced at has essentially the same workflow. If i were to detail the process of how I go from digitizing HDCAM source tapes to outputting and QCing a D5, would I be violating an unspoken code of ethics amongst post boutiques? Is that all we're talking about? From my point of view, it's the quality of producing and content creation that keeps me in work (often, up to my ears

). the workflow is more or less universal, is it not? what am i missing?

Shane Ross · Sep 15, 2009

Well, the BROAD strokes, yes. But...so I guess you can do that. But they wanted SPECIFICS. I mean: "Capture from tape as offline RT, edit, lock picture, media manage as OFFLINE and choose the codec you want, then add handles, recapture as ProRes, OMF audio to post audio house, check all titles and graphics to see if they still are full size, prep for Color, send to Color, color correct, render, send to FCP, add bars & tone, add individual AIFF tracks of full mix from post audio, output to tape..." That is very broad. It is the LITTLE things, like "how to you ensure frame accurate layoffs if cross converting 720p to 1080psf, because there is an offset" that are the secrets.

So OP, do you want the BROAD strokes? Those are known...it is the filling in with the small brush that actually makes this all work...knowing what gaps need to be filled.

Mattykins · Sep 16, 2009

I was under the assumption he [op] was speaking of the specifics and not broad concepts.

My standard edit workflow isn't too detailed, but add in the VFX Post, we go all sorts of crazy.

Zephyrnoid · Sep 16, 2009

Share Your WorkFlow Config Chart

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